4th grader sucks at math, goes to lackadaisical DCPS, what should we do about middle school?

[Anonymous]

I put this here in the most unfriendly/ranting terms so that you get the deal without all the self-delusion typical for DCUM. In real life, I say none of this and really love and help our very kind fourth-grader.

But my wonderful fourth-grader sucks at math.

We live in Ward 4 and have our kid in a DCPS where many or most of the kids are doing the same or worse, but again not to sugarcoat it, we're a dual income meritocrat high-income family whose parents/siblings/other kids have done more than good in school, basically excelled always, whichever schools we've gone to (which have varied a lot)....and our baseline expectations are either excellence without extraordinary effort (parents and other kids) or at least ability in line with elementary school kids in Ward 3.

But, again, this kid sucks at math. Like in multiplication problems on homework, doesn't figure out that multiplication is the way to solve the problem. Doesn't know the times table. Counts with fingers up to 10. UP TO 10. Any time there's a math problem, sidles around the problem to try to get us parents to tell them the answer.

To me, this distinctly seems like undereducation. Not necessarily a developmental delay or anything, just "well, everybody else in this DCPS Title I elementary is doing this bad so shrug." I am not surprised if that's the way it really is for the teachers there, who probably work from the worst kids on up, triage style, and this kid, who's not failing but not excelling, gets ignored.

My question now isn't "tutors, supplementing, ask the teachers to explain, have a meeting, call the principal, get a counselor, consider mental health challenges and screen time, blah blah blah" (Again I'm writing like this because I'm anonymously venting, not because I sound like this or want to cause drama in real life).

The question is - where can I get better for my kid in middle school? A place that will actually get this kid to build capacity to identify problems, answer them with specific learned techniques, and thereby become a capable math student? ALSO It has to be a school that has a chance of entry in the lottery. Gimme some school names!

I have thought that our local DCPS MS would be fine for years, but if it's as half-assed as the elementary, I'm doubtful. I get that I could do a lackadaisical school for this kid and tutor them myself, but I'd appreciate in middle school a setting that does what schools are supposed to do and not just settle for lack of education/lack of rigor because students around my child are just as lazy/unfocused/unready/untaught/whatever.

I'd appreciate thoughts.

[Anonymous]

Inspired Teaching always has spots for 5th graders because some portion of the cohort leaves for schools with a high school feed like Latin or Basis. There are math interventionists, and they've moved to Algebra for all in 8th grade (this is the first year).

[Anonymous]

Wow. Just wow. You, my friendly neighborhood "meritocrat", seem very much in need of an attitude adjustment and some education about math pedagogy and special needs. I don't doubt that your school is meh, but your contempt for your school and your child are really painful to read. No wonder your child is avoiding math. And clearly you cannot tutor the kid yourself, because of your attitude and failure to be helpful. Your kid is WAY behind. Like three grade levels behind.

The preferred term for "sucks at math" is "dyscalculia". It would seem to me that your child has special needs and should have an IEP and specially tailored support, either at school or privately. You can request an IEP meeting today. https://www.understood.org/en/articles/math-anxiety-vs-dyscalculia-compare-the-signs

When you're done calling everyone else lazy and pointing fingers, you can ask yourself why you haven't taken this problem more seriously until now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

We live in Ward 4 and have our kid in a DCPS where many or most of the kids are doing the same or worse, but again not to sugarcoat it, we're a dual income meritocrat high-income family whose parents/siblings/other kids have done more than good in school, basically excelled always, whichever schools we've gone to (which have varied a lot)....and our baseline expectations are either excellence without extraordinary effort (parents and other kids) or at least ability in line with elementary school kids in Ward 3.
...
To me, this distinctly seems like undereducation. Not necessarily a developmental delay or anything, just "well, everybody else in this DCPS Title I elementary is doing this bad so shrug." I am not surprised if that's the way it really is for the teachers there, who probably work from the worst kids on up, triage style, and this kid, who's not failing but not excelling, gets ignored.

Your kid is failing! The teachers are not likely ignoring your kid and focusing on "the worst", because your kid is doing is "the worst" in a gen-ed classroom for 4th grade. My condolences on having an apple fall so far from the Tree of a High-Income "Meritocrat" Family, but you need to open your eyes here! Do you have MAP scores, iReady scores, PARCC scores, anything to give you a reality check?

I would try very hard, right now, to get on track for a school and feeder pattern-- with a strong special needs program (and that might not be Inspired Teaching despite what they say). Maybe a private school. And a tutor specializing in special needs math. Request the IEP today so that you can start getting services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I put this here in the most unfriendly/ranting terms so that you get the deal without all the self-delusion typical for DCUM. In real life, I say none of this and really love and help our very kind fourth-grader.

But my wonderful fourth-grader sucks at math.

We live in Ward 4 and have our kid in a DCPS where many or most of the kids are doing the same or worse, but again not to sugarcoat it, we're a dual income meritocrat high-income family whose parents/siblings/other kids have done more than good in school, basically excelled always, whichever schools we've gone to (which have varied a lot)....and our baseline expectations are either excellence without extraordinary effort (parents and other kids) or at least ability in line with elementary school kids in Ward 3.

But, again, this kid sucks at math. Like in multiplication problems on homework, doesn't figure out that multiplication is the way to solve the problem. Doesn't know the times table. Counts with fingers up to 10. UP TO 10. Any time there's a math problem, sidles around the problem to try to get us parents to tell them the answer.

To me, this distinctly seems like undereducation. Not necessarily a developmental delay or anything, just "well, everybody else in this DCPS Title I elementary is doing this bad so shrug." I am not surprised if that's the way it really is for the teachers there, who probably work from the worst kids on up, triage style, and this kid, who's not failing but not excelling, gets ignored.

My question now isn't "tutors, supplementing, ask the teachers to explain, have a meeting, call the principal, get a counselor, consider mental health challenges and screen time, blah blah blah" (Again I'm writing like this because I'm anonymously venting, not because I sound like this or want to cause drama in real life).

The question is - where can I get better for my kid in middle school? A place that will actually get this kid to build capacity to identify problems, answer them with specific learned techniques, and thereby become a capable math student? ALSO It has to be a school that has a chance of entry in the lottery. Gimme some school names!

I have thought that our local DCPS MS would be fine for years, but if it's as half-assed as the elementary, I'm doubtful. I get that I could do a lackadaisical school for this kid and tutor them myself, but I'd appreciate in middle school a setting that does what schools are supposed to do and not just settle for lack of education/lack of rigor because students around my child are just as lazy/unfocused/unready/untaught/whatever.

I'd appreciate thoughts.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with finger counting in fourth grade. You say your child doesn't know the times tables, how about practicing at home?
What examples of half a$$ teaching have you actually seen? Or, are you just mad that your child isn't performing up to your undefined standards

[Anonymous]

Hire a middle school teacher or a mathy highschooler to tutor him. One year of strengthening basics and concepts can give him a life long advantage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow. Just wow. You, my friendly neighborhood "meritocrat", seem very much in need of an attitude adjustment and some education about math pedagogy and special needs. I don't doubt that your school is meh, but your contempt for your school and your child are really painful to read. No wonder your child is avoiding math. And clearly you cannot tutor the kid yourself, because of your attitude and failure to be helpful. Your kid is WAY behind. Like three grade levels behind.

The preferred term for "sucks at math" is "dyscalculia". It would seem to me that your child has special needs and should have an IEP and specially tailored support, either at school or privately. You can request an IEP meeting today. https://www.understood.org/en/articles/math-anxiety-vs-dyscalculia-compare-the-signs

When you're done calling everyone else lazy and pointing fingers, you can ask yourself why you haven't taken this problem more seriously until now.

It's because in real life I'm a nice person, don't ask questions of teachers, and have let everything proceed and am only ranting here anonymously. In terms that are meant to be kind of outrageous to express frustration. I probably should've known that this is how it'd go from reading advice columns and the like. Never about the problem, always turned back on the asker, over-reference to counseling as the solution.

I probably should've just asked for a middle school that helps struggling students improve in math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. Just wow. You, my friendly neighborhood "meritocrat", seem very much in need of an attitude adjustment and some education about math pedagogy and special needs. I don't doubt that your school is meh, but your contempt for your school and your child are really painful to read. No wonder your child is avoiding math. And clearly you cannot tutor the kid yourself, because of your attitude and failure to be helpful. Your kid is WAY behind. Like three grade levels behind.

The preferred term for "sucks at math" is "dyscalculia". It would seem to me that your child has special needs and should have an IEP and specially tailored support, either at school or privately. You can request an IEP meeting today. https://www.understood.org/en/articles/math-anxiety-vs-dyscalculia-compare-the-signs

When you're done calling everyone else lazy and pointing fingers, you can ask yourself why you haven't taken this problem more seriously until now.

It's because in real life I'm a nice person, don't ask questions of teachers, and have let everything proceed and am only ranting here anonymously. In terms that are meant to be kind of outrageous to express frustration. I probably should've known that this is how it'd go from reading advice columns and the like. Never about the problem, always turned back on the asker, over-reference to counseling as the solution.

I probably should've just asked for a middle school that helps struggling students improve in math.

I still don't get what you've seen in the teaching that you don't like

[Anonymous]

It really sounds like your kid may have a learning difference that needs to be dealt with. Why wouldn’t you ask questions about this? Being a good public school system parent doesn’t mean not asking questions.

[Anonymous]

Whaaaat? A nice person can't ask questions of teachers?

All you have to do is ask it politely! Dear Ms. Teacher, we are excited to have Larlo in your class this year. As you may be aware, math is a growth area for Larlo. I would love to meet or have a call with you to learn more about the curriculum and how we can support Larlo at home.

Sincerely,
Meritocrata

[Anonymous]

I don't think you should wait for middle school to work on your child's math. Some kids need a lot more help than others memorizing the times table, for instance.

It sounds like you're worried your child wouldn't apply him or herself with a tutor? Have you talked to them about the possibility? Or is tutoring out because of budget/time commitments?

We tried tutoring and had some fails and one that maybe helped some, but I don't know why you wouldn't turn there first?

Are you saying that your kid doesn't understand word problems that need multiplication, or actual expressions with the times symbol in them?

How is your child's numeracy? Like if you asked them to add 2+14, would they give you a number smaller than 14? Can they tell you that 421 is bigger than 395?

What are their iReady percentiles?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whaaaat? A nice person can't ask questions of teachers?

All you have to do is ask it politely! Dear Ms. Teacher, we are excited to have Larlo in your class this year. As you may be aware, math is a growth area for Larlo. I would love to meet or have a call with you to learn more about the curriculum and how we can support Larlo at home.

Sincerely,
Meritocrata

Dear Meritocrata,

Sorry, but your kid just sucks at math.

Good luck.

Sincerely,

Ms. Teacher

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think you should wait for middle school to work on your child's math. Some kids need a lot more help than others memorizing the times table, for instance.

It sounds like you're worried your child wouldn't apply him or herself with a tutor? Have you talked to them about the possibility? Or is tutoring out because of budget/time commitments?

We tried tutoring and had some fails and one that maybe helped some, but I don't know why you wouldn't turn there first?

Are you saying that your kid doesn't understand word problems that need multiplication, or actual expressions with the times symbol in them?

How is your child's numeracy? Like if you asked them to add 2+14, would they give you a number smaller than 14? Can they tell you that 421 is bigger than 395?

What are their iReady percentiles?

1) Get your child on an IEP for math NOW. The school will be legally required to provide them with additional support.
2) Get a tutor for your child NOW.
3) Start prepping for various different scenarios for MS--lottery (not Basis, Latin) and private options. You need to have Plan B and C ready.
Get to work. You need to shift into damage control mode for your child.

[Anonymous]

I know your child doesn't have an identified disability, but I would think schools that do better with that population than you would expect might be good for bringing struggling kids forward? Paul Middle School is in Ward 4...

https://www.empowerk12.org/research-source/2022-bold-performance-report

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5f9857f027d55d2170cd92ac/t/634e108eb2cb967d1c3ffe3c/1666060435990/EmpowerK12+2022+DC+Bold+Performance+Schools+Report.pdf

[Anonymous]

I am uncertain when you will receive PARCC scores - but ask your teacher for them as well as for MAP scores.

These are standardized tests that measure your child across a broad group.

After you have those scores, see where the gaps are. You can do 1 of a few things: Supplement (Russian Math is where I would spend my money), have your child evaluated for a learning disability, reinforce at home.