What's it like for an "average" student at Thomas Jefferson?

[Anonymous]

What's it like for "average" students at Thomas Jefferson magnet HS? The schools posts all these impressive statistics about very high SATs, 30% of class is National Merit semifinalists, and a handful of science and math contest winners every year. But each class at Thomas Jefferson is 450+ kids. That means a lot of kids are not academic superstars. Can anyone comment on what the school is like for those kids? Does the school adequately support/encourage them as much as the academic superstars, or do they find themselves being forced to take a backseat to the students that get TJ in the news? I'd imagine it's tough, since many of these "average" kids are probably incredibly smart and would have won many of the prizes and accolades at their non-magnet local school. It also seems like these "average" kids might suffer in college admissions, because at TJ they're in the bottom half of the class, while at other schools their class rank would be much higher. On the other hand, TJ seems like the kind of school that would have considered this tricky issue long ago, and put in mechanisms to support all its students.

Anyone out there with info on this topic? I'd like to think my kids will be academic superstars no matter what school they attend, but I realistically know that they'd be more likely to be in the 70% of students at TJ that are not superstars than in the 30% that are superstars.

[Anonymous]

Do you want your child to be one of the superstars OR do you want your child to be fully challenged, engaged, and taking classes with really smart kids who will provide intellectual comments to class discussion? There is no right or wrong answer here but something to think about seriously.

[Anonymous]

I have spoken to a couple kids from TJ who probably weren't the superstars, since they were both Humanities-type majors, not science or math. They still took a rigorous course load, and they were doing pretty amazing research considering they were in high school. They were both applying to select colleges and were so busy with school work that they didn't have that much time for a social life.

[Anonymous]

I think that people also forget that just because you attend a less rigorous school and theoretically speaking your "average" child would be in the top of his class in a less rigorous school, that when it comes to really prestigious colleges, they do not and cannot take even the #1 student at every high school in the US. So, for example, my large public high school in CA, our #1 student was the only student who got into Harvard, but he wasn't just the #1 student. He was also the class president and invented something with his dad who was a bio chemist. Just being a big fish in a small pond is not enough. You also have to compete with the other big fish in the many small ponds in the country.

And the converse is also going to be true as well. Just because you are not at the top of your class in a very rigorous school, that doesn't mean that you won't do well with respect to colleges. For example, you will still have a decent gpa, and you should theoretically be able to get a good score on your sats, and be able to write an essay.

[Anonymous]

May all your problems be like this one...

First off, if your kids are such hot shots, it isn't about college, but about grad school and career, no? Success in a PhD program is about independent thinking and the ability to master things on your own. And, I can promise you.... there's always ALWAYS a more selective pond out there, and there is always ALWAYS one where your children will not be the superstar. There's a lot to learn from that, too.

So your kid ends up at Michigan and not Harvard - there are plenty of students from schools like that doing first rate grad work at first rate programs. THAT'S when you need your kid to star - not in high school.

[Anonymous]

An average kid at TJ is a slightly nerdy asian kid that enjoys being around students where being smart is valued. I'd imagine the average students end up at UVA, College of William & Mary, or Virginia Tech. Nothing the sneeze at. There is no class rank, so the colleges are way more forgiving on that end.

[Anonymous]

I was an average student at TJ. I applied to six colleges (three Ivies, Duke, UVA, VT ) and was accepted to all of them. Average students there still have good grades. The school asks students to leave if they can't maintain a 3.0 GPA (though, they didn't have this policy when I was there).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was an average student at TJ. I applied to six colleges (three Ivies, Duke, UVA, VT ) and was accepted to all of them. Average students there still have good grades. The school asks students to leave if they can't maintain a 3.0 GPA (though, they didn't have this policy when I was there).

OP here. Thanks for your response. Can you talk about how your experience was at the school? My original question wasn't really meant to be so focused on colleges -- I apologize that it came across that way. How was it being an average student there? I assume you weren't "average" at previous schools. Was the shift difficult? More info please.

[Anonymous]

I did not attend TJ but a school like it in another part of the country. I had always excelled at school and in the very top of the class. My parents wanted me to be challenged and when I arrived at a school where there were people smarter than me- it was eye opening but also very healthy.

I feel like for the first time in my life- I had to really work for something and got to see I was not the only superstar out there.

[Anonymous]

Been watching this thread with interest. I am interested in TJ for my daughter (she's so young she doesn't even really know about it) but I don't think she would be a "star" there. I know several people with kids at TJ and all have said it was an amazing experience. The passion for learning shown by the teachers and fellow students was life changing thing for their kids. One parent said that TJ was the first place her son ever felt accepted for who he was. (He was not a star, but did get a full scholarship to Carnegie Mellon.)

As the PP said, I don't think it's healthy for children to always be the star and never be challenged. That was what my school experience was like (different public school system in a different part of the country) and it created a lot of bad habits that have been very hard for me to unlearn.

[Anonymous]

I think perhaps OP is not so much concerned that her child will not be a star, but rather that maybe her child will feel downright "not smart enough" when put in the company of incredibly brilliant peers (some of them, not all!) At least that thought has crossed my mind regarding my own child ... I want him to be challenged and know that hard work has its rewards, both intrinsic and extrinsic ... but maybe it would be nice to be at the top for at least some subject or activity. Anyway, my response to myself is that any child that gets into TJ is plenty smart and hard working, as are many of the kids who do not get in. Just need to remind child of that occassionally if it seems needed.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanks for all the responses. PP at 16:37 came close to describing what I am asking about. I'm definitely interested in whether the 225 kids who are in the bottom half of every TJ class suffer some emotional angst about being in the bottom half of the class, especially since they've probably been in the top 10-15% of every class throughout their prior schooling.

As a slightly separate topic, I'm also interested in whether those bottom-half students at TJ (and their parents) feel the school is giving them as much support and kudos as the kids that are in the top half (and especially those kids that win TJ awards and accolades in all the academic competitions). In the Washingtonian article on TJ, I recall someone expressing concern that so much emphasis is placed on all those academic awards that kids are pushing themselves very hard to win those awards and the approval that comes with them. I found myself wondering how TJ's teachers and admins offer approval to the bottom-half students who never even really compete for those awards.

I appreciate the thoughtful answers from many of you. Please keep the insight coming. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

My brother went to TJ. I went to our local HS, which is considered amongst the very best in Fairfax County. Back in middle school, I did well on the standardized test for the TJ application and made the first round of cuts, but didn't make the 2nd round of cuts, based on grades/teacher recommendations. My brother is definitely math/science-oriented whereas I am not. I graduated high school almost a decade ago, by the way.

Both my brother and I ended up as National Merit Finalists- I was one of just a few at my HS while he was one of many. Both of us went to top colleges. As someone else said, at TJ, basically everyone goes to a top school- UVa is almost like the default option for TJ students.

Both my brother and I have done great- we've been really fortunate to do exactly what we wanted to do (for us: really interesting and fulfilling government careers). I do not believe that being rejected from TJ held me back at all. I found my place at our nearby high school and did well there- it was the right place for me, actually.

My brother is much more intellectual than I am, and I am fully confident that TJ was the right place for him- he made lifelong friends there who shared his highly eclectic interests. (Some would call them "nerds"- and they've embraced that term, actually. ) Going to TJ and being one of many really smart people worked out just fine for my brother- it didn't negatively impact him in any way. If anything, being at TJ may have given him license to pursue his "nerdier" interests, certainly to his advantage later in life.

Neither one of us ended up with a big head- there are too many smart people in this area, either at TJ or at your local top Fairfax County high school (Langley/McLean/Madison, etc) to feel like you are anything else but a decent-sized fish in this big pond. I was glad I had the opportunities I've had growing up here and that the bar was set high for me.

[Anonymous]

Here's the thing. Unless your kid is literally on Einstein-level, by the time they get to TJ they will not have been the bright shining superstar for several years. Yes, they may get straight As, know all the answers, ace standardized tests, play in the symphonic band, garner art prizes, play competitive sports, and get invited to lots of parties. But they won't be the superstar.

Why? Because if they are smart as you say, they will be in the GT program. If that's the case, then almost every other kid in their middle school GT program (and probably elementary school too) will be just as accomplished.

This is the voice of experience here. My DS is now in the middle of the TJ application process and he is everything I wrote about in the first paragraph. Guess what, in every endeavor I listed, there's almost always someone who tops him. And when he does get the top prize/score/award, there's always someone breathing down his neck.

And as far as I can tell, his ego is just fine. He's happy, positive, and well-adjusted.

[Anonymous]

An intern at the theatre I worked for was what he called an "average" student. Yet at the age of 19 he was able to hold his own in conversations with a number of playwrights and became a true asset to our office. If you have ever had to deal with teenage interns, you'll know that this was a lovely exception..

TJ seems to instill confidence in young men and women that they may not have gained on their own.