UMC deep in the negative

[Anonymous]

I'm a little worn out from the grind so just wondering if this whole UMC life becomes more comfortable once your net worth is in the green. Not looking for budgeting advice but would love to hear other experiences. Quick background, I grew up poor but now our combined income is ~$220k/year. Unfortunately our net worth is -$700,000 with the vast majority of the negative being new 30 year mortgage and two absolutely massive student loans from law school. It would be 7 figures in the red if not for our retirement accounts and the "equity" in our townhouse. I am very bitter about my student debt but I have to admit it was the price I had to pay to make six figures. My social security statement shows that the most money I made prior to law school was $28k in a year.

Our cash flow is fine although the vast majority goes to daycare (2 kids), mortgage, huge student loan bills, and insurance. My parents visited recently and were shocked that we weren't popping bottles of champagne and burning bills given that our HHI is probably 5x what they ever earned (and they actually have a SFH). So what is the point of this rat race and when do you actually come out ahead?

[Anonymous]

One of you needs to go into private practice. I’d guess 220k combined is two government jobs? It only get easier when one of you starts making 300+ and then HHI is around 450.

[Anonymous]

Your mortgage debt does not lower your net worth if it, you know, comes with a house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your mortgage debt does not lower your net worth if it, you know, comes with a house.

+1 are you underwater on the house? on the green side, you should be soft-counting the value of your house. I say soft-counting because eggs and hatching and all, but it is a more realistic financial picture.

[Anonymous]

If you have two absolutely massive loans from law school and you're making a combined $220k, something is amiss.

Earn more money.

We're at $300k HHI with no student loans and two in daycare and we feel fine.

[Anonymous]

I make six figures, and have no student debt. I didn’t go to graduate/professional school either.

HHI is $125k (single parent with sole custody, and my ex-husband doesn’t pay child support, which I am working on).

I am still paying for childcare, and I have a mortgage on a townhouse.

I think the difference between us is that I am not trying to live a lifestyle I clearly can’t afford.

[Anonymous]

The early years being house poor and daycare feel like the toughest to get through financially, in my experience. Keep paying down your debt, if you can pay any raises into your 401k. Once daycare is over, it becomes a bit less tight. But camps/days off care, etc. does eat into it somewhat. Decide on a portion of the daycare savings that you will put into 529s. I also suggest some more mental health/emotional wellness advice: find your comfort level in your current home. Make the best of it, even if it is a tight fit. Don't start to think about your next home, whether single-family or not, if and when you have more breathing space. Concentrate on making your family life happy where you are.

[Anonymous]

How old are you? Is this another one of those.. "I make x figures and I should be able to live like Y like those other folks (who happen to be like 15 years older than you"?

I'm 49, DH is 54. We both grew up lower/middle class, but neither of us have student loans because we worked our way through college, and I commuted to college from home. Those were the things I gave up to not have a loan when I graduated.

I lived below my means even when I started making six figures almost 20 years. That's how we were able to afford a nice house with a smallish mortgage.

If you are under 40, you have a ways to go. Yes your income is high compared to the rest of America, but not compared to the DC area. That's the problem. We used to live in an area more expensive than here.

Set your expectations to what is reasonable. Otherwise you will always feel like you're just keeping your head above the water rather than inching towards the coastline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your mortgage debt does not lower your net worth if it, you know, comes with a house.

+1 are you underwater on the house? on the green side, you should be soft-counting the value of your house. I say soft-counting because eggs and hatching and all, but it is a more realistic financial picture.

OP here, you both identified why I am in the legal field working in a non-financial practice! I am not underwater on my house but only 2 years into a 30 year mortgage. Taking the mortgage and equity out of the picture would put me at less than negative half a million. That certainly seems more surmountable even if it takes a decade or so.

To the others offering lifestyle advice: thank you, but I am learning as I go. I don't have major credit card debt now as I learned that lesson carrying maxed out credit cards through undergrad and law school. I have no idea how griping about owning a townhouse is "keeping up with the Joneses" or living beyond my means as we are very comfortable even after replacing the HVAC and poor DIY renovations from the previous cheap skate owner. Again, I am just asking when the upper middle class life, which is obviously a status worth striving for here in the US, becomes comfortable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How old are you? Is this another one of those.. "I make x figures and I should be able to live like Y like those other folks (who happen to be like 15 years older than you"?

I'm 49, DH is 54. We both grew up lower/middle class, but neither of us have student loans because we worked our way through college, and I commuted to college from home. Those were the things I gave up to not have a loan when I graduated.

I lived below my means even when I started making six figures almost 20 years. That's how we were able to afford a nice house with a smallish mortgage.

If you are under 40, you have a ways to go. Yes your income is high compared to the rest of America, but not compared to the DC area. That's the problem. We used to live in an area more expensive than here.

Set your expectations to what is reasonable. Otherwise you will always feel like you're just keeping your head above the water rather than inching towards the coastline.

I am as you describe under 40. Unfortunately I had no opportunity to make decent income until after I took out my student loan debt - the IT industry went into full outsource mode just as I was ready to move up from my entry level position. You are right that there is always another $100k income I need to grasp at. Unfortunately my field is not that profitable in the private sector.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How old are you? Is this another one of those.. "I make x figures and I should be able to live like Y like those other folks (who happen to be like 15 years older than you"?

I'm 49, DH is 54. We both grew up lower/middle class, but neither of us have student loans because we worked our way through college, and I commuted to college from home. Those were the things I gave up to not have a loan when I graduated.

I lived below my means even when I started making six figures almost 20 years. That's how we were able to afford a nice house with a smallish mortgage.

If you are under 40, you have a ways to go. Yes your income is high compared to the rest of America, but not compared to the DC area. That's the problem. We used to live in an area more expensive than here.

Set your expectations to what is reasonable. Otherwise you will always feel like you're just keeping your head above the water rather than inching towards the coastline.

I am as you describe under 40. Unfortunately I had no opportunity to make decent income until after I took out my student loan debt - the IT industry went into full outsource mode just as I was ready to move up from my entry level position. You are right that there is always another $100k income I need to grasp at. Unfortunately my field is not that profitable in the private sector.

PP here.. DH and I are both in IT. Does your spouse have a regular FT job with benefits? If so, I would advise you to go contracting. If you exclude benefits, the hourly rate can turn out to be better. You can contribute to a SEP or individual 401k. That's how we were able to grow our retirement accounts.

A lot of jobs are indeed outsourced, but there are still a lot of jobs in the DC area that can't be outsourced. I suppose it depends on your field though.

[Anonymous]

The way net worth works is it's assets - liabilities. So if your house is worth $1m, and you have a mortgage of $800k, then it adds $200k to your net worth. Do you really have $700k in law school loans? That is crazy, and you should be making much more money if you do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your mortgage debt does not lower your net worth if it, you know, comes with a house.

+1 are you underwater on the house? on the green side, you should be soft-counting the value of your house. I say soft-counting because eggs and hatching and all, but it is a more realistic financial picture.

OP here, you both identified why I am in the legal field working in a non-financial practice! I am not underwater on my house but only 2 years into a 30 year mortgage. Taking the mortgage and equity out of the picture would put me at less than negative half a million. That certainly seems more surmountable even if it takes a decade or so.

To the others offering lifestyle advice: thank you, but I am learning as I go. I don't have major credit card debt now as I learned that lesson carrying maxed out credit cards through undergrad and law school. I have no idea how griping about owning a townhouse is "keeping up with the Joneses" or living beyond my means as we are very comfortable even after replacing the HVAC and poor DIY renovations from the previous cheap skate owner. Again, I am just asking when the upper middle class life, which is obviously a status worth striving for here in the US, becomes comfortable.

It becomes comfortable when you can afford to live an UMC lifestyle. You’re not there yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I make six figures, and have no student debt. I didn’t go to graduate/professional school either.

HHI is $125k (single parent with sole custody, and my ex-husband doesn’t pay child support, which I am working on).

I am still paying for childcare, and I have a mortgage on a townhouse.

I think the difference between us is that I am not trying to live a lifestyle I clearly can’t afford.

You make a lot of monty and only supporting 2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your mortgage debt does not lower your net worth if it, you know, comes with a house.

+1 are you underwater on the house? on the green side, you should be soft-counting the value of your house. I say soft-counting because eggs and hatching and all, but it is a more realistic financial picture.

OP here, you both identified why I am in the legal field working in a non-financial practice! I am not underwater on my house but only 2 years into a 30 year mortgage. Taking the mortgage and equity out of the picture would put me at less than negative half a million. That certainly seems more surmountable even if it takes a decade or so.

To the others offering lifestyle advice: thank you, but I am learning as I go. I don't have major credit card debt now as I learned that lesson carrying maxed out credit cards through undergrad and law school. I have no idea how griping about owning a townhouse is "keeping up with the Joneses" or living beyond my means as we are very comfortable even after replacing the HVAC and poor DIY renovations from the previous cheap skate owner. Again, I am just asking when the upper middle class life, which is obviously a status worth striving for here in the US, becomes comfortable.

The real issue is you bought a house you cannot afford and went to a school you could not afford.