"Red-Shirting" of kids

[Anonymous]

Good lord, this thread represents what I most dislike about DCUM ... many people spouting unshakable opinions, but hardly anyone willing to back up their views with even a moment of research. I got tired of the claptrap, so I spent 5 minutes on Google searches to pull up several useful articles. For anyone who wants to consider the issue, below are a handful of good articles. I personally think the NY Times piece was the most informative and balanced of the bunch. Despite the strongly expressed views here (on both sides), people who actually study these issues seem to have mixed views.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/03/magazine/03kindergarten-t.html
http://www.education.com/magazine/article/Redshirting_Whats_All_About/
http://www.isteve.com/2002_Redshirting-A_Kindergarten_Arms_Race.htm
http://www.kidsource.com/education/red.shirting.html

PS: I am almost completely ambivalent about redshirting, so don't bother flaming me with reasons why your particular opinion is right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Red Shirting the "average" person (not someone with health or cognitive issues) creates so many problems downstream.

You say that as though it should be taken as fact, when it is really only your opinion. What studies support your assertion?

[Anonymous]

The online articles cited were very interesting. The person posted said the evidence was mixed. The way I read them, the articles came out clearly against redshirting for the sake of redshirting. It appears there definitely are long term consequences of having much older children, and the short term issues (motor skills) for red-shirting resolve themselves as boys mature. More than one article mentioned that it should be the school's job to help boys manage their later maturation (e.g. deemphasize penmanship) rather than have cohorts of older children, who are larger than peers, bored, and more mis-behaved as a result of the boredom. And of course, having much older children does affect the "normal" aged children. It affects teaching ability. It affects everything and benefits no one in the long run.

This is exactly what I've been trying to say in various posts. The system is failing ALL the children by doing nothing to manage the redshirting trend.

[Anonymous]

I read all the articles and found them to be decidedly mixed.

In fact, to say that they came out clearly against redshirting for the sake of redshirting is to have misread them - either willfully or because one is simply unable to absorb ambivalent messages.

[Anonymous]

I have to agree with this one. Why are some private schools posting that children have to be 4 years old by September 1st to get into Pre-K, when the truth is that they are redshirting summer birthdays and really only want 5 year olds in Pre-K? Why not just be honest with the applicants instead of stringing people along?

Anonymous wrote:No, people are arguing against it because it pushes the age limits to extremes.

At what age is K appropriate?
At what age is 1 appropriate?

Make some guidelines for it and stick to it.

What isn't fair is the idea that a child is the perceived or published suitable age for a grade only to find out that "everyone else" is significantly older.

It is pretty disgusting.

[Anonymous]

I wonder which schools you are talking about. At least at Beauvoir, summer birthdays are NOT encouraged to be held back just for redshirting purposes. Sometimes the parents do fight for it (just because they believe in redshirting) but its not something the schools wants you to do at all.

[Anonymous]

Good to hear that about Beauvoir. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

I am redshirting my summer bday boy...not to give him a 'comparative advantage'. If it does, great, if not, no loss. But the reality is, that in MoCo at least, the curriculum has become developmentally INappropriate. What is taught in K used to be taught in 1st or even 2nd grade. K is not a year to learn school skills as much as academic ones. Society is also accelerating development by encouraging (marketing) children to become interested in age-INappropriate activities (i,e Hannah Montana should be a 3rd or 4th grade show, not one popular with k-1st, phones for 5th graders or younger, inappropriate clothing, music, ...etc In essence, society is slowing squeezing out childhood and replacing it with mini-teens for all but the littlest preschoolers) I am redshirting my son because I want to give him at least ONE year of childhood that the school system and society want to cheat him out of. Also, as an elementary teacher, I can tell you that there is a HUGE range of development and abilities in any given class (public or private) and that adding a redshirted child usually doesn't change that range very much, if at all. So it really has nothing to do with my son not being ready. He is ready for what he should be ready for. But he is not ready for (thank goodness) for inappropriate curriculum expectations and the tween pop culture marketing machine.

[Anonymous]

If my firstborn had been born on-time (9-28), I would definitely redshirt him. He just isn't ready for K next year. Luckily, he was born a week late and just missed the cutoff.

The question I have to all these anti-redshirters, why should one week matter? Now, I tend to agree that it is a little odd for parents to hold back their kids born in spring/early summer, but as a parent of one of those boys who can't sit still, very active and not nearly as verbal as his peers, I can totally understand why I would redshirt.

But don't all of you feel that the date is totally arbitrary anyways?

[Anonymous]

To 14:24, I think if you re-read this VERY long thread you will see that most people have no objection to waiting to send a child with a late-summer/close-to-deadline birthday. It's the April, May, June, heck even July kids, that give me pause. This is when I start to wonder if the parents aren't doing their child a disservice by holding him/her back. We can't coddle our children forever, but we live in a society where it is increasingly the "norm" to never let a child experience disappointment or failure. That is NOT real life!

And ITA with 13:58 about inappropriate kindergarten curriculum and added marketing pressures towards younger and younger children. I do not and will not let my 5 yo DD watch Hannah Montana or HSM. Why on earth would I encourage her to emulate high schoolers at age 5???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am redshirting my summer bday boy...not to give him a 'comparative advantage'. If it does, great, if not, no loss. But the reality is, that in MoCo at least, the curriculum has become developmentally INappropriate. What is taught in K used to be taught in 1st or even 2nd grade. K is not a year to learn school skills as much as academic ones. Society is also accelerating development by encouraging (marketing) children to become interested in age-INappropriate activities (i,e Hannah Montana should be a 3rd or 4th grade show, not one popular with k-1st, phones for 5th graders or younger, inappropriate clothing, music, ...etc In essence, society is slowing squeezing out childhood and replacing it with mini-teens for all but the littlest preschoolers) I am redshirting my son because I want to give him at least ONE year of childhood that the school system and society want to cheat him out of. Also, as an elementary teacher, I can tell you that there is a HUGE range of development and abilities in any given class (public or private) and that adding a redshirted child usually doesn't change that range very much, if at all. So it really has nothing to do with my son not being ready. He is ready for what he should be ready for. But he is not ready for (thank goodness) for inappropriate curriculum expectations and the tween pop culture marketing machine.

You should read the literature on redshirting and you may come to a different conclusion.

[Anonymous]

It is absolutely true that the curriculum has been pushed down. That's why so many are resorting to holding their kids back year. It is crazy to make kindergarten too hard/age inappropriate for most 5 years olds. And that is what has happened. All these parents & fool educational "reforms" call for "rigor" and advanced curriculum despite the fact that the kid's social and motor skills need development... which is what kindergarten is for. Ask any really good K teacher, and they'll tell you that.
Of course schools should be patient with young boys - or any child's - motor development. Why do you think so many kids hold pencils like clubs when they're in 3rd grade? It is a compensatory grip because they have been asked to do too much writing at an early age when their muscles aren't ready for it.

Take a country like Finland, on the international cutting edge of electronics innovation, and look at when the kids get the big academic push. It's not age 5. Can't tell you how many superior students I've seen leave high school so exhausted, they've lost their drive for academics and innovation. Oh, some will go on and do what their parents expect, but the sparkle is gone.
If we put first grade work back in first grade, then we won't have to worry about holding NORMAL kids back, and then dealing with them being older and in trouble with younger kids. Make them successful early, and they'll be successful for years to come. Your kid's an advanced reader? GREAT! Let him/her read anything (short of obscene s/he wants. The mind will continue to grow... We ask kids to sit longer and listen to adults for longer stretches of time than most adults can sit and pay attention in meetings. Then we wonder why they fail at age 5.... and parents are trying to figure out what to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am redshirting my summer bday boy...not to give him a 'comparative advantage'. If it does, great, if not, no loss. But the reality is, that in MoCo at least, the curriculum has become developmentally INappropriate. What is taught in K used to be taught in 1st or even 2nd grade. K is not a year to learn school skills as much as academic ones. Society is also accelerating development by encouraging (marketing) children to become interested in age-INappropriate activities (i,e Hannah Montana should be a 3rd or 4th grade show, not one popular with k-1st, phones for 5th graders or younger, inappropriate clothing, music, ...etc In essence, society is slowing squeezing out childhood and replacing it with mini-teens for all but the littlest preschoolers) I am redshirting my son because I want to give him at least ONE year of childhood that the school system and society want to cheat him out of. Also, as an elementary teacher, I can tell you that there is a HUGE range of development and abilities in any given class (public or private) and that adding a redshirted child usually doesn't change that range very much, if at all. So it really has nothing to do with my son not being ready. He is ready for what he should be ready for. But he is not ready for (thank goodness) for inappropriate curriculum expectations and the tween pop culture marketing machine.

You should read the literature on redshirting and you may come to a different conclusion.

Frankly, I don't care what the literature says. Redshirting worked for my kid and my family. Perhaps you should just worry about your own instead of the choices other families make for what's right for their child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Frankly, I don't care what the literature says. Redshirting worked for my kid and my family. Perhaps you should just worry about your own instead of the choices other families make for what's right for their child.

It becomes MY problem when your humongous 6 1/2 year old who is a full year+ older than my kid comes into K and is so freakin' bored with the curriculum that they act up and pull every other kid down with them. Oh, not YOUR perfect kid. Trust me, I'm watching it happen this year in DS's K class where one 6.25 yo boy who is more mature and frankly way beyond the K curriculum has affected the teachers and the other students. How is this fair to the other children who started K when they were supposed to??

[Anonymous]

I agree. Kindergarten should be for five year olds (unless your DCs birthday is after the September 1st cut off). And I think it's hysterical when people brag that their DC is in the highest reading group or is "so bright". Your child is SIX or SEVEN years old in Kindergarten--they're doing well because they're OLD, not necessarily because they are smart.