Discussion on abysmal APS college results

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Arlington and I attended an Ivy. But the cost is too high now and I’ll encourage my kids to apply to state schools. I bet there are a lot of others in similar situations.

Same for me. I went to Yale but can’t afford an Ivy for my daughter. She can go to any in state school in Virginia.

I find it telling that so many Ivy grads can’t afford to send their kid to an Ivy. DH and I both went to a state school. We can easily afford private HS, Ivy tuition, second home, etc. I guess it’s really not the golden ticket everyone thinks it is. Smart kids do well wherever they go.

You are mistaken. My husband and I are ivy undergrad and ivy graduate school. But we live here because we chose careers in public service. Our degrees have certainly opened a lot of doors and given us flexibility to do what we love. But we think our kids can have the same success at an instate school (both of us came from parts of the country with poor to mediocre in state options). I find it telling that you judge the quality of a degree by how much money you earn.

The whole point of my post is that kids can be successful wherever they go. And, yes, not everyone defines success the same way. You working in public service doesn’t somehow make you more successful than some one doing a job they love with significant compensation. Your post comes off as a classic Ivy Leaguer, like you are somehow better because you went to Ivy and you are now doing so much good in the world!!! I am a state school booster. I think UVA and Tech are great. Surely you aren’t naïve enough to think that the posters on this thread saying that you are only happy with UVA because your kid can’t get into an Ivy believe that a low income from public sector work is the desired outcome of an Ivy education.

Do agree that smart kids can succeed anywhere. Don’t agree with much of anything else in your original post. Most of which you’ve conveniently omitted here. You claimed people’s ivy league degrees had diminished value because they didn’t make enough money to send all their kids to Ivy League. We pointed out that some people CHOOSE jobs that pay less than private sector because it is what they want to do. No one said we were better. We just said we didn’t judge the value of our degree by whether we could afford a second home. You clearly do. But suffice it to say that we have different views about what it means to be happy and successful and also different views about the value of a good education. We’ll have to agree to disagree.

DP. People aren't diminishing the value of the ivy league degree. They are saying that the cost of the ivy league degree isn't necessary, particularly at the undergraduate level, because graduates from "lesser" schools (1) end up equally successful and (2) end up in the same graduate programs with ivy league graduates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Arlington and I attended an Ivy. But the cost is too high now and I’ll encourage my kids to apply to state schools. I bet there are a lot of others in similar situations.

Same for me. I went to Yale but can’t afford an Ivy for my daughter. She can go to any in state school in Virginia.

I find it telling that so many Ivy grads can’t afford to send their kid to an Ivy. DH and I both went to a state school. We can easily afford private HS, Ivy tuition, second home, etc. I guess it’s really not the golden ticket everyone thinks it is. Smart kids do well wherever they go.

Guess you've never heard of public service. It's telling when someone thinks money is the only measure of value or worth. I guess there is value to sending kids to Ivies if they don't learn this at state schools.

+1

It’s not all about the ROI.

It’s not? I thought that was exactly what we were talking about. The Ivy League isn’t out of your reach. Just take out loans. It shouldn’t be a problem for you because you don’t look at education from a return on an investment perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Arlington and I attended an Ivy. But the cost is too high now and I’ll encourage my kids to apply to state schools. I bet there are a lot of others in similar situations.

Same for me. I went to Yale but can’t afford an Ivy for my daughter. She can go to any in state school in Virginia.

I find it telling that so many Ivy grads can’t afford to send their kid to an Ivy. DH and I both went to a state school. We can easily afford private HS, Ivy tuition, second home, etc. I guess it’s really not the golden ticket everyone thinks it is. Smart kids do well wherever they go.

Guess you've never heard of public service. It's telling when someone thinks money is the only measure of value or worth. I guess there is value to sending kids to Ivies if they don't learn this at state schools.

+1

It’s not all about the ROI.

It’s not? I thought that was exactly what we were talking about. The Ivy League isn’t out of your reach. Just take out loans. It shouldn’t be a problem for you because you don’t look at education from a return on an investment perspective.

No. Just look at all of the people who go into public service.

If my kids can get in and it’s a good fit I’d pay for it for my kids. And not just because I think it’s more likely that they’d have a higher amount of lifetime earning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Arlington and I attended an Ivy. But the cost is too high now and I’ll encourage my kids to apply to state schools. I bet there are a lot of others in similar situations.

Same for me. I went to Yale but can’t afford an Ivy for my daughter. She can go to any in state school in Virginia.

I find it telling that so many Ivy grads can’t afford to send their kid to an Ivy. DH and I both went to a state school. We can easily afford private HS, Ivy tuition, second home, etc. I guess it’s really not the golden ticket everyone thinks it is. Smart kids do well wherever they go.

Guess you've never heard of public service. It's telling when someone thinks money is the only measure of value or worth. I guess there is value to sending kids to Ivies if they don't learn this at state schools.

+1

It’s not all about the ROI.

It’s not? I thought that was exactly what we were talking about. The Ivy League isn’t out of your reach. Just take out loans. It shouldn’t be a problem for you because you don’t look at education from a return on an investment perspective.

You don't get this at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Arlington and I attended an Ivy. But the cost is too high now and I’ll encourage my kids to apply to state schools. I bet there are a lot of others in similar situations.

Same for me. I went to Yale but can’t afford an Ivy for my daughter. She can go to any in state school in Virginia.

I find it telling that so many Ivy grads can’t afford to send their kid to an Ivy. DH and I both went to a state school. We can easily afford private HS, Ivy tuition, second home, etc. I guess it’s really not the golden ticket everyone thinks it is. Smart kids do well wherever they go.

Yep! The prestige and benefits are short-lived.

I will say that my ivy league undergrad ed gave me an advantage several times in my life -- getting a job after college; getting into law school after working for several years out of undergrad; and then getting back into the work force after being a lawyer several years then taking time off with the kids. I am not good at building relationships with people who might give me a job in the future and this was useful for me instead; it really did help.

I would totally agree with this.

Singed, another Ivy grad

Not exactly following your point. Are you saying it is the connections you had from your Ivy school that got you those jobs, or the name of the school on your resume? And you really don't think your previous work experiences helped with subsequent hires?

I agree the name recognition is helpful, particularly upon graduation and entering the workforce. But the point is that others who graduate from lesser-known schools end up being comparably successful in the long-run. That's why the comment is that the benefits - or advantages - are "short-lived."

I'm the OP of that comment and I don't have any connections and am incompetent at "working" them even if I did. I'm saying the name recognition of the school helped pull me in for the interview after I took time off to mom it for several years, and helped me get a job in a very competitive market after graduation. And having a high GPA from that ivy (and a letter of rec from faculty there) helped me get into a good law school even though I was applying 6 years after i graduated. I'm sure my WHOLE resume counted, but people notice and ask questions about the ivy school -- it came up in those two job interviews specifically, even though for one it had been 25 years since I'd graduated. It keeps happening to me and that's why I'm convinced it's still a factor in getting hired etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Arlington and I attended an Ivy. But the cost is too high now and I’ll encourage my kids to apply to state schools. I bet there are a lot of others in similar situations.

Same for me. I went to Yale but can’t afford an Ivy for my daughter. She can go to any in state school in Virginia.

I find it telling that so many Ivy grads can’t afford to send their kid to an Ivy. DH and I both went to a state school. We can easily afford private HS, Ivy tuition, second home, etc. I guess it’s really not the golden ticket everyone thinks it is. Smart kids do well wherever they go.

Yep! The prestige and benefits are short-lived.

I will say that my ivy league undergrad ed gave me an advantage several times in my life -- getting a job after college; getting into law school after working for several years out of undergrad; and then getting back into the work force after being a lawyer several years then taking time off with the kids. I am not good at building relationships with people who might give me a job in the future and this was useful for me instead; it really did help.

I would totally agree with this.

Singed, another Ivy grad

Not exactly following your point. Are you saying it is the connections you had from your Ivy school that got you those jobs, or the name of the school on your resume? And you really don't think your previous work experiences helped with subsequent hires?

I agree the name recognition is helpful, particularly upon graduation and entering the workforce. But the point is that others who graduate from lesser-known schools end up being comparably successful in the long-run. That's why the comment is that the benefits - or advantages - are "short-lived."

I'm the OP of that comment and I don't have any connections and am incompetent at "working" them even if I did. I'm saying the name recognition of the school helped pull me in for the interview after I took time off to mom it for several years, and helped me get a job in a very competitive market after graduation. And having a high GPA from that ivy (and a letter of rec from faculty there) helped me get into a good law school even though I was applying 6 years after i graduated. I'm sure my WHOLE resume counted, but people notice and ask questions about the ivy school -- it came up in those two job interviews specifically, even though for one it had been 25 years since I'd graduated. It keeps happening to me and that's why I'm convinced it's still a factor in getting hired etc.

Another Ivy grad here with a similar life path, and I am convinced it has helped me too. After a non traditional path with time off, people still know that I got my card stamped at an Ivy. I think it helps.

And not it's not connections either. I don't know where these Ivy connections come from. I don't have any!

[Anonymous]

+1. An Ivy on your resume, whether for undergrad or grad school, gives you the benefit of the doubt if you ever do something nontraditional or aren't perfect. It's economically rational to decide that's not worth $400k, but personally I would make it work if my daughters could actually get in.

[Anonymous]

Agreed. I'm the Ivy poster above. It gave me more freedom to do what I wanted job wise without feeling pressure to accept the most prestigious job. Then it helped me the most when I came back into the workforce after time away for family reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Grade inflation in this area is notorious, that’s why.

+1. It’s hard to take a school district seriously when it is has 200+ valedictorians at a single high school. Let alone that they don’t penalize grades for cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grade inflation in this area is notorious, that’s why.

+1. It’s hard to take a school district seriously when it is has 200+ valedictorians at a single high school. Let alone that they don’t penalize grades for cheating.

The valedictorian thing has been going on here for at least four decades. It’s so emblematic of the deeper problem of not being able to tell parents “no.” You want option school for your child? Yes! You want accelerated math for your child? Yes! You want your child IDed as gifted? Sure! You want your child to be valedictorian? Why the hell not! Everyone is the smartest and APS and deserves the education they demand. To the detriment of the majority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grade inflation in this area is notorious, that’s why.

+1. It’s hard to take a school district seriously when it is has 200+ valedictorians at a single high school. Let alone that they don’t penalize grades for cheating.

The valedictorian thing has been going on here for at least four decades. It’s so emblematic of the deeper problem of not being able to tell parents “no.” You want option school for your child? Yes! You want accelerated math for your child? Yes! You want your child IDed as gifted? Sure! You want your child to be valedictorian? Why the hell not! Everyone is the smartest and APS and deserves the education they demand. To the detriment of the majority.

Oh good lord, you can be annoyed if you want about the valedictorian thing, but it doesn't have anything to do with your myriad other baseless complaints. Maybe you should go to private if you hate APS that much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grade inflation in this area is notorious, that’s why.

+1. It’s hard to take a school district seriously when it is has 200+ valedictorians at a single high school. Let alone that they don’t penalize grades for cheating.

The valedictorian thing has been going on here for at least four decades. It’s so emblematic of the deeper problem of not being able to tell parents “no.” You want option school for your child? Yes! You want accelerated math for your child? Yes! You want your child IDed as gifted? Sure! You want your child to be valedictorian? Why the hell not! Everyone is the smartest and APS and deserves the education they demand. To the detriment of the majority.

Oh good lord, you can be annoyed if you want about the valedictorian thing, but it doesn't have anything to do with your myriad other baseless complaints. Maybe you should go to private if you hate APS that much.

+1 APS essentially doesn't have a "valedictorian" they use the term to really mean something like magna cum laude -- anyone who has 4.0+ weighted GPA. Yes it's dumb terminology. It tries to walk the line of reducing GPA competition at the top while not getting rid of ranking completely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was hoping to kickstart a conversation on APS college acceptance results, and why people think they are so poor

For background - I live in Arlington now with two kids, but grew up in a comparably wealthy suburbs of Chicago and went to New Trier, a public but well off HS. At NT, we had a classes of about 800, but pretty consistently stellar college placement results (few dozen ivy leagues, even more state flagship, etc)

In comparison, APS's college acceptances are shockingly poor. I understand the narrative in Arlington for why; there are a lot of wealthy NOVA suburbs so high performing DMV HS seniors are a dime a dozen, so it is just harder to stand out. But the sale argument also applies for the wealthier suburbs of Chicago that somehow have way better placement

There are no non-magnet high schools in the DMV the quality of New Trier. I went to a neighboring high school - Deerfield - and yes even today there is no non-magnet high school the quality of Deerfield. Not sure the reason is anything to write home about. The Chicago area is among the most segregated of areas, and the demographics at a Deerfield or Stevenson are quite different than high schools here. But contrary to a bias against the Midwest, these top flight Chicago suburban schools are very good. In the 80's the principal of Highland Park high school became the APS superintendent and while Highland Park had a small neighborhood of recently arrived migrants in Highwood, it was an an adjustment to APS (from what I can tell he did an acceptable job).

The real loss, so to speak, in the State of Illinois has been in the secondary cities. Peoria Richwoods used to be excellent in the 70's, and now it is dismal. A singular example, to be sure - but in Peoria - formerly the hallmark of the middle class throughout America, it is really unfortunate. From this perspective APS looks fairly good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Arlington and I attended an Ivy. But the cost is too high now and I’ll encourage my kids to apply to state schools. I bet there are a lot of others in similar situations.

Same for me. I went to Yale but can’t afford an Ivy for my daughter. She can go to any in state school in Virginia.

I find it telling that so many Ivy grads can’t afford to send their kid to an Ivy. DH and I both went to a state school. We can easily afford private HS, Ivy tuition, second home, etc. I guess it’s really not the golden ticket everyone thinks it is. Smart kids do well wherever they go.

You can just hear the smugness emanating from this post. Ever occur to you that not all Ivy grads choose to chase the highest paying career?

Even more argument against the expense of Ivy League and similar schools.

My Ivy League PhD spouse chose a career in pubic service. I suspect many other graduates of prestigious schools in the DMV chose similar paths. The Ivy grads making $$$$$ are in Finance or the Bay Area.

This. There are a lot of dual government families in Arlington. They make good money and live a comfortable lifestyle. They get very little need-based aid and don't have $300k to spend on college for one kid. It doesn't matter if the Ivy League is worth it. They don't have it. And people who work safe, steady government jobs don't borrow a lot of money for college. Not gonna happen.

[Anonymous]

Arlington is a county based system. If Yorktown was its own school district and set it's own zoning laws, it would be a "better" school district in terms of getting kids into top colleges.