Lynne Harris: "People complain about Montgomery County Public Schools until they go somewhere else"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't live in the area, but she is making a good point overall. All ps systems are terrible. And they are doing their best with real humans and it's not like another system is going to be any better. It's true.

Unless they go to Massachusetts.

New England has smaller systems that segregate by town which most often separates the rich and poor.

Right, and MCPS ... doesn't separate by SES?

Not in the same way it is done in the other states mentioned…no comparison. MCPS schools except perhaps Whitman are very diverse now.

MCPS is actually very segregated.

https://www.thesentinel.com/communities/educational-inequality-in-montgomery-county-public-schools/article_8ad9307c-54cd-11ee-aba4-3b19165af141.html

https://ggwash.org/view/71803/montgomery-county-is-finally-talking-about-its-segregated-schools.-but-can-we-fix-them

https://kappanonline.org/integration-segregation-suburban-school-districts-montgomery-county-rotberg/

The old boundaries from the '80s that are still in use today were gerrymandered to achieve this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't live in the area, but she is making a good point overall. All ps systems are terrible. And they are doing their best with real humans and it's not like another system is going to be any better. It's true.

Unless they go to Massachusetts.

New England has smaller systems that segregate by town which most often separates the rich and poor.

Right, and MCPS ... doesn't separate by SES?

Not in the same way it is done in the other states mentioned…no comparison. MCPS schools except perhaps Whitman are very diverse now.

MCPS is actually very segregated.

https://www.thesentinel.com/communities/educational-inequality-in-montgomery-county-public-schools/article_8ad9307c-54cd-11ee-aba4-3b19165af141.html

https://ggwash.org/view/71803/montgomery-county-is-finally-talking-about-its-segregated-schools.-but-can-we-fix-them

https://kappanonline.org/integration-segregation-suburban-school-districts-montgomery-county-rotberg/

The old boundaries from the '80s that are still in use today were gerrymandered to achieve this.

Upcounty '80s that was quite a different era because of growth; QOHS opened in '88 and WMHS opened in '89. Standards for districting weren't based on race or wealth, but rather on parameters of population stability. For example, single family homes are considered to be more stable populations while apartments/condo have a more transient population and so the district looked at balancing these types of populations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmmm, unless they did a survey of people that left MCPS, she's just full of crap.

And as someone that left MCPS, our experience has been LIGHTYEARS better in our new school system

Let me guess, a small but wealthy district with fewer low-income students?

Probably but who cares. The idea that MCPS is this amazing nirvana that is better than everywhere else in the country is a big problem. Especially when data in our own state says that MCPS is not the "best" school system. These folks are in their MCPS superiority bubble and can't get out.

But it is and that bothers you. It is an amazing school system and the best in the nation, top of the rankings.

[Anonymous]

The term amazing seems more inflated than the grading system. Have you watched Twitter fights online? It can be quite dangerous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmmm, unless they did a survey of people that left MCPS, she's just full of crap.

And as someone that left MCPS, our experience has been LIGHTYEARS better in our new school system

Let me guess, a small but wealthy district with fewer low-income students?

Probably but who cares. The idea that MCPS is this amazing nirvana that is better than everywhere else in the country is a big problem. Especially when data in our own state says that MCPS is not the "best" school system. These folks are in their MCPS superiority bubble and can't get out.

But it is and that bothers you. It is an amazing school system and the best in the nation, top of the rankings.

This pp is a troll trying to bait you. They’re anti mcps, though it seems otherwise. Man I’ve been on here too long.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:My understanding is that Harris dislikes the administrative obfuscation of MCPS but likes the social initiatives. I think most of the vocal opposition has been about the latter, and she may wish those to back off/get out, but that a number of other board members (Evans, particularly) have not been as supportive of open data interests, so she hasn't been able to make that the priority she initially ran on.

If she dislikes the administrative obfuscation then she should focus on tearing that down instead of slapping down valid criticism of a system that has objectively failed for at least the past year or two.

I mean, they just paid a massive settlement to fire the superintendent over the protest of the no-confidence vote of the MCEA. How can she defend the system with all of that mess still being fresh in our faces? It's an insane remark to make given what just happened and the scolding that she and the BOE got for poor oversight of the system by the County Executive and the County Council.

Where's the humility? Where's the accountability? Basically everyone else is the problem and MCPS and the BOE are just fine?

I suppose that she, like many, feels that folks who rail against the things she sees as important (like inclusive cirricula) should go pound sand. Not humble or the most politically astute to say so, though.

As far as accountability, I'd guess she'd place that more at the feet of her colleagues who haven't supported the calls for open data.

I dunno. She literally used the phrases of "operational excellence" and being "a good steward of funds" to describe MCPS presently, which I can't understand how she can utter those statements given all the facts that have been made public and again, the blistering criticism she and the BOE have gotten from CE Elrich and the Council for failing in precisely those two areas.

Either she's gaslighting us or she's arrogant enough to think she and the BOE are smarter than everyone else who's criticizing her, the BOE and the system.

Could not have been stated better. Personally I think it is arrogance. If the voters of this county can vote for her continued service after she declares what a great steward she has been with funds, well, you get what you deserve then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like someone with a realistic understanding of public school systems. I'm consistently impressed with the quality of the education my kid gets in MCPS, compared to what I got as a kid in another system.

I call bullshit on this

Unless you are in your students canvas account you don't have any measure of how well they're being taught. There u
Is no quality. My daughter once handed in a paragraph where she reiterated the same idea 5 times to make up 5 different sentences and got an A. I was embarrassed for the teacher to be going through the motions of handing out great grades for shit work. Mayh homework is "self check." Tests are graded but rarely corrected with feedback given.

I realize some here probably went to Mediocre public schools and think everything here is fine and dandy but it's not. It's also gone down hill significantly with the curriculum 2.0 ans so on.
The teachers and administrators know it.

[Anonymous]

One criticism I've often seen of MCPS is that its top schools are only well-performing because they're segregated. They say that schools with poorer populations, measured by higher FARMS rates, do worse only because they don't have access to the same resources as wealthier families.

But I was talking to some friends that live in California near Oakland. Comparing schools in their district to ours with similar FARMS rates - about 48% - reading and math proficiency in the CA districts my friends are zoned to are way higher than here.

Does anyone know why this is the case? Are CA's state proficiency tests far more lenient? Or is there some other explanation as to what's going on here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like someone with a realistic understanding of public school systems. I'm consistently impressed with the quality of the education my kid gets in MCPS, compared to what I got as a kid in another system.

I call bullshit on this

Unless you are in your students canvas account you don't have any measure of how well they're being taught. There u
Is no quality. My daughter once handed in a paragraph where she reiterated the same idea 5 times to make up 5 different sentences and got an A. I was embarrassed for the teacher to be going through the motions of handing out great grades for shit work. Mayh homework is "self check." Tests are graded but rarely corrected with feedback given.

I realize some here probably went to Mediocre public schools and think everything here is fine and dandy but it's not. It's also gone down hill significantly with the curriculum 2.0 ans so on.
The teachers and administrators know it.

Teachers can’t turn terrible students into grade students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One criticism I've often seen of MCPS is that its top schools are only well-performing because they're segregated. They say that schools with poorer populations, measured by higher FARMS rates, do worse only because they don't have access to the same resources as wealthier families.

But I was talking to some friends that live in California near Oakland. Comparing schools in their district to ours with similar FARMS rates - about 48% - reading and math proficiency in the CA districts my friends are zoned to are way higher than here.

Does anyone know why this is the case? Are CA's state proficiency tests far more lenient? Or is there some other explanation as to what's going on here?

I think your cherry picking people that have bad experiences because there are a ton of students east of the county that are going to great colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One criticism I've often seen of MCPS is that its top schools are only well-performing because they're segregated. They say that schools with poorer populations, measured by higher FARMS rates, do worse only because they don't have access to the same resources as wealthier families.

But I was talking to some friends that live in California near Oakland. Comparing schools in their district to ours with similar FARMS rates - about 48% - reading and math proficiency in the CA districts my friends are zoned to are way higher than here.

Does anyone know why this is the case? Are CA's state proficiency tests far more lenient? Or is there some other explanation as to what's going on here?

I do think it would be good to evaluate MCPS based on things like this, but there a two possible scenarios:

1) As you hypothesized, maybe CA’s proficiency tests are better/more lenient. I doubt this, but I can’t completely discount it.

2) Those school districts have better leadership at all levels, that allow them to be more effective at engaging and educating kids who qualify for FARMs.

My bet is on number 2. I reject the lazy excuse MCPS likes to give that low scores in high FARMs schools is not their fault because FARMs kids are innately dumber or less capable than their non-FARMs counterparts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmmm, unless they did a survey of people that left MCPS, she's just full of crap.

And as someone that left MCPS, our experience has been LIGHTYEARS better in our new school system

Let me guess, a small but wealthy district with fewer low-income students?

Probably but who cares. The idea that MCPS is this amazing nirvana that is better than everywhere else in the country is a big problem. Especially when data in our own state says that MCPS is not the "best" school system. These folks are in their MCPS superiority bubble and can't get out.

But it is and that bothers you. It is an amazing school system and the best in the nation, top of the rankings.

This is objectively false, but keep telling yourself that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

In case it doesn't start, she said this at 1 hour and 48 minutes in.

Does this sound like the words or sentiment of an incumbent board member who realizes the BOE has been off track, failed in its oversight responsibilities and owes the public better than what it has given to students, parents and staff? Or does it sound like someone who thinks MCPS is doing just fine and everyone who's upset is just being unrealistic with their expectations and ungrateful and unappreciative of how amazing MCPS is?

Lynne is spot on here. Most of these complainers are just super high-maintenance privileged types. It's hard to take them seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmmm, unless they did a survey of people that left MCPS, she's just full of crap.

And as someone that left MCPS, our experience has been LIGHTYEARS better in our new school system

Let me guess, a small but wealthy district with fewer low-income students?

Probably but who cares. The idea that MCPS is this amazing nirvana that is better than everywhere else in the country is a big problem. Especially when data in our own state says that MCPS is not the "best" school system. These folks are in their MCPS superiority bubble and can't get out.

But it is and that bothers you. It is an amazing school system and the best in the nation, top of the rankings.

By any objective measure, this is true. The problem is that some people think it's the county's job to raise their kids and confuse this with public education.

[Anonymous]

It’s maddening how so many in education now fall back on “its worse other places” excuse. MCPS has clearly declined. We can’t fix problems if we refuse to identify them and address them.