Lynne Harris: "People complain about Montgomery County Public Schools until they go somewhere else"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't live in the area, but she is making a good point overall. All ps systems are terrible. And they are doing their best with real humans and it's not like another system is going to be any better. It's true.

Unless they go to Massachusetts.

New England has smaller systems that segregate by town which most often separates the rich and poor.

I live in Massachusetts and this is true.

We have overall the best public schools in the country, but some of our schools systems are really struggling and not graduating at a high rate because the cities or towns they are in are poor and the kids face bigger challenges overall in their homes as well.

Brockton which was once a jewel is now one of the worst in the state and the school board recently asked the governor to bring the national guard into the high school - she refused.

Fall River schools graduate only around 50% of kids.

If you’re lucky enough to grow up in Cambridge, Wellesley, Newton etc. it is a whole different experience.

Massachusetts really needs some kind of legislated funding mechanism that equalizes to some degree the resources going to each child resident who attends our pubic schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't live in the area, but she is making a good point overall. All ps systems are terrible. And they are doing their best with real humans and it's not like another system is going to be any better. It's true.

Unless they go to Massachusetts.

New England has smaller systems that segregate by town which most often separates the rich and poor.

I live in Massachusetts and this is true.

We have overall the best public schools in the country, but some of our schools systems are really struggling and not graduating at a high rate because the cities or towns they are in are poor and the kids face bigger challenges overall in their homes as well.

Brockton which was once a jewel is now one of the worst in the state and the school board recently asked the governor to bring the national guard into the high school - she refused.

Fall River schools graduate only around 50% of kids.

If you’re lucky enough to grow up in Cambridge, Wellesley, Newton etc. it is a whole different experience.

Massachusetts really needs some kind of legislated funding mechanism that equalizes to some degree the resources going to each child resident who attends our pubic schools.

BPS is the largest, and it's... not great. At least, it seems comparable to MCPS based on what I read about MCPS here. Honestly exactly the same dynamics just different names and places.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't live in the area, but she is making a good point overall. All ps systems are terrible. And they are doing their best with real humans and it's not like another system is going to be any better. It's true.

Unless they go to Massachusetts.

New England has smaller systems that segregate by town which most often separates the rich and poor.

Right, and MCPS ... doesn't separate by SES?

DP. Not if you're comparing at a district level; for something like test scores, you're always mixing students from across the SES spectrum when you look at MCPS's numbers. It's not really meaningful to compare a county with large amounts of poverty with somewhere like Weston, Massachusetts, where those numbers are much lower.

Right, because Carderock Elementary and Weller Road Elementary have such a mix of students from across the SES spectrum.

Leaving that aside, Massachusetts as a whole outperforms other states consistently.

MCPS isn't the nirvana it fancies itself to be.

MCPS is weirdly resting on its laurels from a generation ago when there was a smaller percentage of poor people, a very small percentage of kids were labeled special needs, and very few kids needed ESOL services. It likely was never a nirvana for these groups simply because it wasn't mandated that MCPS even care about them until no child left behind was implemented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't live in the area, but she is making a good point overall. All ps systems are terrible. And they are doing their best with real humans and it's not like another system is going to be any better. It's true.

Unless they go to Massachusetts.

New England has smaller systems that segregate by town which most often separates the rich and poor.

Right, and MCPS ... doesn't separate by SES?

Not in the same way it is done in the other states mentioned…no comparison. MCPS schools except perhaps Whitman are very diverse now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't live in the area, but she is making a good point overall. All ps systems are terrible. And they are doing their best with real humans and it's not like another system is going to be any better. It's true.

Unless they go to Massachusetts.

New England has smaller systems that segregate by town which most often separates the rich and poor.

Right, and MCPS ... doesn't separate by SES?

DP. Not if you're comparing at a district level; for something like test scores, you're always mixing students from across the SES spectrum when you look at MCPS's numbers. It's not really meaningful to compare a county with large amounts of poverty with somewhere like Weston, Massachusetts, where those numbers are much lower.

Right, because Carderock Elementary and Weller Road Elementary have such a mix of students from across the SES spectrum.

Leaving that aside, Massachusetts as a whole outperforms other states consistently.

MCPS isn't the nirvana it fancies itself to be.

MCPS is weirdly resting on its laurels from a generation ago when there was a smaller percentage of poor people, a very small percentage of kids were labeled special needs, and very few kids needed ESOL services. It likely was never a nirvana for these groups simply because it wasn't mandated that MCPS even care about them until no child left behind was implemented.

Exactly. So are we really saying No Child Left Behind destroyed public schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't live in the area, but she is making a good point overall. All ps systems are terrible. And they are doing their best with real humans and it's not like another system is going to be any better. It's true.

Unless they go to Massachusetts.

New England has smaller systems that segregate by town which most often separates the rich and poor.

Right, and MCPS ... doesn't separate by SES?

DP. Not if you're comparing at a district level; for something like test scores, you're always mixing students from across the SES spectrum when you look at MCPS's numbers. It's not really meaningful to compare a county with large amounts of poverty with somewhere like Weston, Massachusetts, where those numbers are much lower.

Right, because Carderock Elementary and Weller Road Elementary have such a mix of students from across the SES spectrum.

Leaving that aside, Massachusetts as a whole outperforms other states consistently.

MCPS isn't the nirvana it fancies itself to be.

MCPS is weirdly resting on its laurels from a generation ago when there was a smaller percentage of poor people, a very small percentage of kids were labeled special needs, and very few kids needed ESOL services. It likely was never a nirvana for these groups simply because it wasn't mandated that MCPS even care about them until no child left behind was implemented.

Exactly. So are we really saying No Child Left Behind destroyed public schools?

school teachers will say it did. I mean, don't they still complain about it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't live in the area, but she is making a good point overall. All ps systems are terrible. And they are doing their best with real humans and it's not like another system is going to be any better. It's true.

Unless they go to Massachusetts.

New England has smaller systems that segregate by town which most often separates the rich and poor.

Right, and MCPS ... doesn't separate by SES?

DP. Not if you're comparing at a district level; for something like test scores, you're always mixing students from across the SES spectrum when you look at MCPS's numbers. It's not really meaningful to compare a county with large amounts of poverty with somewhere like Weston, Massachusetts, where those numbers are much lower.

Right, because Carderock Elementary and Weller Road Elementary have such a mix of students from across the SES spectrum.

Leaving that aside, Massachusetts as a whole outperforms other states consistently.

MCPS isn't the nirvana it fancies itself to be.

MCPS is weirdly resting on its laurels from a generation ago when there was a smaller percentage of poor people, a very small percentage of kids were labeled special needs, and very few kids needed ESOL services. It likely was never a nirvana for these groups simply because it wasn't mandated that MCPS even care about them until no child left behind was implemented.

Exactly. So are we really saying No Child Left Behind destroyed public schools?

school teachers will say it did. I mean, don't they still complain about it?

Yes. MANY school teachers chalk up the sad state of affairs in public education to the clunky and poor implementation of NCLB.

[Anonymous]

Haven’t any aspects of NCLB been repealed?
Have teachers unions tried to change it? Parents? Has anything been done?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Haven’t any aspects of NCLB been repealed?
Have teachers unions tried to change it? Parents? Has anything been done?

Yes, Obama implemented his Race to the Top program

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't live in the area, but she is making a good point overall. All ps systems are terrible. And they are doing their best with real humans and it's not like another system is going to be any better. It's true.

Unless they go to Massachusetts.

New England has smaller systems that segregate by town which most often separates the rich and poor.

Right, and MCPS ... doesn't separate by SES?

DP. Not if you're comparing at a district level; for something like test scores, you're always mixing students from across the SES spectrum when you look at MCPS's numbers. It's not really meaningful to compare a county with large amounts of poverty with somewhere like Weston, Massachusetts, where those numbers are much lower.

Right, because Carderock Elementary and Weller Road Elementary have such a mix of students from across the SES spectrum.

Leaving that aside, Massachusetts as a whole outperforms other states consistently.

MCPS isn't the nirvana it fancies itself to be.

MCPS is working off the same county tax base. Systems that break down along very small municipal borders have very different tax bases funding them. I think Fairfax City is the only district like that in the DMV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I, like many complainants, went somewhere else and that’s why we complain about the lack of rigor and discipline at mcps. We know ps can actually be good.

If you have enough money to buy in expensive areas, which produce high performing student cohorts. So yes, ps is good then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't live in the area, but she is making a good point overall. All ps systems are terrible. And they are doing their best with real humans and it's not like another system is going to be any better. It's true.

Unless they go to Massachusetts.

New England has smaller systems that segregate by town which most often separates the rich and poor.

Right, and MCPS ... doesn't separate by SES?

DP. Not if you're comparing at a district level; for something like test scores, you're always mixing students from across the SES spectrum when you look at MCPS's numbers. It's not really meaningful to compare a county with large amounts of poverty with somewhere like Weston, Massachusetts, where those numbers are much lower.

Right, because Carderock Elementary and Weller Road Elementary have such a mix of students from across the SES spectrum.

Leaving that aside, Massachusetts as a whole outperforms other states consistently.

MCPS isn't the nirvana it fancies itself to be.

MCPS is weirdly resting on its laurels from a generation ago when there was a smaller percentage of poor people, a very small percentage of kids were labeled special needs, and very few kids needed ESOL services. It likely was never a nirvana for these groups simply because it wasn't mandated that MCPS even care about them until no child left behind was implemented.

Exactly. So are we really saying No Child Left Behind destroyed public schools?

school teachers will say it did. I mean, don't they still complain about it?

NCLB was a terrible "reform." The amped-up standardized testing did a number on low-income students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't live in the area, but she is making a good point overall. All ps systems are terrible. And they are doing their best with real humans and it's not like another system is going to be any better. It's true.

Unless they go to Massachusetts.

New England has smaller systems that segregate by town which most often separates the rich and poor.

Right, and MCPS ... doesn't separate by SES?

DP. Not if you're comparing at a district level; for something like test scores, you're always mixing students from across the SES spectrum when you look at MCPS's numbers. It's not really meaningful to compare a county with large amounts of poverty with somewhere like Weston, Massachusetts, where those numbers are much lower.

Right, because Carderock Elementary and Weller Road Elementary have such a mix of students from across the SES spectrum.

Leaving that aside, Massachusetts as a whole outperforms other states consistently.

MCPS isn't the nirvana it fancies itself to be.

MCPS is weirdly resting on its laurels from a generation ago when there was a smaller percentage of poor people, a very small percentage of kids were labeled special needs, and very few kids needed ESOL services. It likely was never a nirvana for these groups simply because it wasn't mandated that MCPS even care about them until no child left behind was implemented.

Yes the demographics of t he county have changed, but the same kid would do as well or better today than 30 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't live in the area, but she is making a good point overall. All ps systems are terrible. And they are doing their best with real humans and it's not like another system is going to be any better. It's true.

Unless they go to Massachusetts.

New England has smaller systems that segregate by town which most often separates the rich and poor.

Right, and MCPS ... doesn't separate by SES?

Not in the same way it is done in the other states mentioned…no comparison. MCPS schools except perhaps Whitman are very diverse now.

MCPS is actually very segregated.

https://www.thesentinel.com/communities/educational-inequality-in-montgomery-county-public-schools/article_8ad9307c-54cd-11ee-aba4-3b19165af141.html

https://ggwash.org/view/71803/montgomery-county-is-finally-talking-about-its-segregated-schools.-but-can-we-fix-them

https://kappanonline.org/integration-segregation-suburban-school-districts-montgomery-county-rotberg/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't live in the area, but she is making a good point overall. All ps systems are terrible. And they are doing their best with real humans and it's not like another system is going to be any better. It's true.

Unless they go to Massachusetts.

New England has smaller systems that segregate by town which most often separates the rich and poor.

Right, and MCPS ... doesn't separate by SES?

Not in the same way it is done in the other states mentioned…no comparison. MCPS schools except perhaps Whitman are very diverse now.

It has almost 5% low-income students that's super diverse!