Thanks to the bike party organizers!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:saw a woman on a bike this evening with two kids abroad approach a four way stop intersection.

there were already two other cars at the intersection, each stopped at their respective stop signs and waiting to go through, before she had even reached the intersection.

and yet she just barreled on through the intersection at full speed, expecting everyone else to just wait on her. one car had to slam on its breaks.

feel bad for her kids. she is going to get them (and herself) killed.

bicyclists have no idea how idaho stops work, do they? or do they just not care?

If bicyclists were required to actually follow the rules of Idaho stops, no one would bike. They'd have to stop and start at the end of virtually every block and they'd get so tired out, they'd just stop riding.

Here you are again using terms you refuse to understand. Read the law around the Idaho Stop in DC and come back with some actual information, rather than prejudiced nonsense.

Here's the law. Given this, and the sheer number of cars and other people on the road, Idaho Stops should be relatively rare.

Code of the District of Columbia
§ 50–2201.04d. Riders' safe crossing at intersections.

(a) A rider approaching a stop sign may go straight through the intersection or make a turn without stopping; provided, that the rider:

(1) Is travelling at an appropriate speed to reasonably assess and avoid hazards;

[b](2) Determines there is no immediate hazard; and

(3) Yields the right-of-way to pedestrians and to other traffic lawfully using the intersection.

[/b]

In my experience, bicyclists expect everyone else to yield to them at intersections, which is not how this is supposed to work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:saw a woman on a bike this evening with two kids abroad approach a four way stop intersection.

there were already two other cars at the intersection, each stopped at their respective stop signs and waiting to go through, before she had even reached the intersection.

and yet she just barreled on through the intersection at full speed, expecting everyone else to just wait on her. one car had to slam on its breaks.

feel bad for her kids. she is going to get them (and herself) killed.

bicyclists have no idea how idaho stops work, do they? or do they just not care?

If bicyclists were required to actually follow the rules of Idaho stops, no one would bike. They'd have to stop and start at the end of virtually every block and they'd get so tired out, they'd just stop riding.

Or.. you know, do what I do now which is cruise toward a red light while watching the walk counter count down and then start pedaling when the one on my side is about to tick off so I can go with the leading pedestrian signal. Pisses off some of the motorists though, because that stops them from speeding to the red light just to stop.

Why would you want to piss anyone off, let alone boast about being an ahole. Putting aside the safety implications, it's just very sad.

When I drove a stick shift, I would also do the cruise to the red light thing to avoid clutch use. The cyclist above here isn't trying to piss people off, they are trying to be efficient.

There's plenty of posts by people saying they do some of these things on purpose in order to deliberately piss off strangers.

[Anonymous]

Cyclists as a group know they piss off drivers (not just slowing us down and being totally unpredictable) but drivers as a group do NOT want to involved when your stupidity results in the inevitable accident.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cyclists as a group know they piss off drivers (not just slowing us down and being totally unpredictable) but drivers as a group do NOT want to involved when your stupidity results in the inevitable accident.

Oh please. The very existence of a cyclist seems to piss off a large group of motorists (some of whom have commented many times on this thread). So what, you want all cyclists to just de-exist themselves?

People were complaining about the person who was going like 6 miles under the speed *limit* toward a red light saying they were being an ahole for being in the left lane when a vehicle was parked in the right for christsake.

Yes, some of these protest rides are to demonstrate that many cyclists exist. But even they are usually keeping to a lane or two depending on group size.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:saw a woman on a bike this evening with two kids abroad approach a four way stop intersection.

there were already two other cars at the intersection, each stopped at their respective stop signs and waiting to go through, before she had even reached the intersection.

and yet she just barreled on through the intersection at full speed, expecting everyone else to just wait on her. one car had to slam on its breaks.

feel bad for her kids. she is going to get them (and herself) killed.

bicyclists have no idea how idaho stops work, do they? or do they just not care?

If bicyclists were required to actually follow the rules of Idaho stops, no one would bike. They'd have to stop and start at the end of virtually every block and they'd get so tired out, they'd just stop riding.

Here you are again using terms you refuse to understand. Read the law around the Idaho Stop in DC and come back with some actual information, rather than prejudiced nonsense.

Here's the law. Given this, and the sheer number of cars and other people on the road, Idaho Stops should be relatively rare.

Code of the District of Columbia
§ 50–2201.04d. Riders' safe crossing at intersections.

(a) A rider approaching a stop sign may go straight through the intersection or make a turn without stopping; provided, that the rider:

(1) Is travelling at an appropriate speed to reasonably assess and avoid hazards;

(2) Determines there is no immediate hazard; and

(3) Yields the right-of-way to pedestrians and to other traffic lawfully using the intersection.

They're not that rare in residential neighborhoods outside of rush hour. I can usually get about a mile from my house before I approach an intersection with a stop sign at the same time as a pedestrian or another vehicle on my bike. (Traffic lights obviously are different.) By definition, the only people who really would know if most Idaho stops are being performed correctly are the cyclists doing the stopping; if there was someone else at the intersection, it wouldn't be legal. So the fact that we don't see people doing them right doesn't really prove that no one does.

FWIW, I always stop at stop signs on my bike if there are others at the intersection, though a lot of drivers seem to expect me not to and try to waive me to go. That may be an indication of typical cyclist behavior, or maybe they think they need to yield to bikes, or maybe they're trying to be helpful (though once I stop, I may as well wait for every car at an intersection to go, even if I have right of way).

DP. You really have a distorted view of reality. No one cares what you’re doing when no one sees you. The problem is what you’re doing when everyone sees you.

The problem I have is that every time I have been a at four way stop with a cyclist the cyclist breaks the law. You and your buddies need to stop breaking the law. It’s that simple.

*predicting that your response will be some whataboutism about cars*

And every time I am at a 4 way stop sign, someone driving a car is breaking the law.

The difference is, when a cyclist does it, the ramifications are minimal to nil. When someone driving a car does it, it can be catastrophic.

Not really. You're comparing a cyclist going full speed through an intersection, often when they dont have the right of way, to car that you think didn't technically completely 100 percent stop. Those aren't remotely the same thing.

Regardless, everyone should be following the law, and no one should be making up reasons why they are exempt from it.

A car that "stops" and a bike that rolls through an intersection are moving about the same speed, while the vehicle also has a few orders of magnitude more kinetic energy.

The unfortunate reality is that if everyone actually obeyed the law, including speed limits, the transportation system would collapse. So rather than finger pointing on who is a bigger scofflaw, maybe its time to revamp our infrastructure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:saw a woman on a bike this evening with two kids abroad approach a four way stop intersection.

there were already two other cars at the intersection, each stopped at their respective stop signs and waiting to go through, before she had even reached the intersection.

and yet she just barreled on through the intersection at full speed, expecting everyone else to just wait on her. one car had to slam on its breaks.

feel bad for her kids. she is going to get them (and herself) killed.

bicyclists have no idea how idaho stops work, do they? or do they just not care?

If bicyclists were required to actually follow the rules of Idaho stops, no one would bike. They'd have to stop and start at the end of virtually every block and they'd get so tired out, they'd just stop riding.

Here you are again using terms you refuse to understand. Read the law around the Idaho Stop in DC and come back with some actual information, rather than prejudiced nonsense.

Here's the law. Given this, and the sheer number of cars and other people on the road, Idaho Stops should be relatively rare.

Code of the District of Columbia
§ 50–2201.04d. Riders' safe crossing at intersections.

(a) A rider approaching a stop sign may go straight through the intersection or make a turn without stopping; provided, that the rider:

(1) Is travelling at an appropriate speed to reasonably assess and avoid hazards;

(2) Determines there is no immediate hazard; and

(3) Yields the right-of-way to pedestrians and to other traffic lawfully using the intersection.

They're not that rare in residential neighborhoods outside of rush hour. I can usually get about a mile from my house before I approach an intersection with a stop sign at the same time as a pedestrian or another vehicle on my bike. (Traffic lights obviously are different.) By definition, the only people who really would know if most Idaho stops are being performed correctly are the cyclists doing the stopping; if there was someone else at the intersection, it wouldn't be legal. So the fact that we don't see people doing them right doesn't really prove that no one does.

FWIW, I always stop at stop signs on my bike if there are others at the intersection, though a lot of drivers seem to expect me not to and try to waive me to go. That may be an indication of typical cyclist behavior, or maybe they think they need to yield to bikes, or maybe they're trying to be helpful (though once I stop, I may as well wait for every car at an intersection to go, even if I have right of way).

DP. You really have a distorted view of reality. No one cares what you’re doing when no one sees you. The problem is what you’re doing when everyone sees you.

The problem I have is that every time I have been a at four way stop with a cyclist the cyclist breaks the law. You and your buddies need to stop breaking the law. It’s that simple.

*predicting that your response will be some whataboutism about cars*

And every time I am at a 4 way stop sign, someone driving a car is breaking the law.

The difference is, when a cyclist does it, the ramifications are minimal to nil. When someone driving a car does it, it can be catastrophic.

Not really. You're comparing a cyclist going full speed through an intersection, often when they dont have the right of way, to car that you think didn't technically completely 100 percent stop. Those aren't remotely the same thing.

Regardless, everyone should be following the law, and no one should be making up reasons why they are exempt from it.

A car that "stops" and a bike that rolls through an intersection are moving about the same speed, while the vehicle also has a few orders of magnitude more kinetic energy.

The unfortunate reality is that if everyone actually obeyed the law, including speed limits, the transportation system would collapse. So rather than finger pointing on who is a bigger scofflaw, maybe its time to revamp our infrastructure.

Again, this is an inane comparison.

What you're complaining about is cars that didn't technically, completely stop, which means that car is traveling through the intersection at less than one mile per hour. What drivers are complaining about bicyclists who go flying through an intersection at 10 or 15 miles per hour.

What causes crashes is people doing things other people didnt anticipate. A car going a half mile per hour is not going to surprise anyone and it can stop extremely quickly. A bike or e-bike flying through an intersection at full speed is something else entirely. That is a lot more surprisinng, and they can't stop quickly if there's a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:saw a woman on a bike this evening with two kids abroad approach a four way stop intersection.

there were already two other cars at the intersection, each stopped at their respective stop signs and waiting to go through, before she had even reached the intersection.

and yet she just barreled on through the intersection at full speed, expecting everyone else to just wait on her. one car had to slam on its breaks.

feel bad for her kids. she is going to get them (and herself) killed.

bicyclists have no idea how idaho stops work, do they? or do they just not care?

If bicyclists were required to actually follow the rules of Idaho stops, no one would bike. They'd have to stop and start at the end of virtually every block and they'd get so tired out, they'd just stop riding.

Here you are again using terms you refuse to understand. Read the law around the Idaho Stop in DC and come back with some actual information, rather than prejudiced nonsense.

Here's the law. Given this, and the sheer number of cars and other people on the road, Idaho Stops should be relatively rare.

Code of the District of Columbia
§ 50–2201.04d. Riders' safe crossing at intersections.

(a) A rider approaching a stop sign may go straight through the intersection or make a turn without stopping; provided, that the rider:

(1) Is travelling at an appropriate speed to reasonably assess and avoid hazards;

(2) Determines there is no immediate hazard; and

(3) Yields the right-of-way to pedestrians and to other traffic lawfully using the intersection.

They're not that rare in residential neighborhoods outside of rush hour. I can usually get about a mile from my house before I approach an intersection with a stop sign at the same time as a pedestrian or another vehicle on my bike. (Traffic lights obviously are different.) By definition, the only people who really would know if most Idaho stops are being performed correctly are the cyclists doing the stopping; if there was someone else at the intersection, it wouldn't be legal. So the fact that we don't see people doing them right doesn't really prove that no one does.

FWIW, I always stop at stop signs on my bike if there are others at the intersection, though a lot of drivers seem to expect me not to and try to waive me to go. That may be an indication of typical cyclist behavior, or maybe they think they need to yield to bikes, or maybe they're trying to be helpful (though once I stop, I may as well wait for every car at an intersection to go, even if I have right of way).

DP. You really have a distorted view of reality. No one cares what you’re doing when no one sees you. The problem is what you’re doing when everyone sees you.

The problem I have is that every time I have been a at four way stop with a cyclist the cyclist breaks the law. You and your buddies need to stop breaking the law. It’s that simple.

*predicting that your response will be some whataboutism about cars*

And every time I am at a 4 way stop sign, someone driving a car is breaking the law.

The difference is, when a cyclist does it, the ramifications are minimal to nil. When someone driving a car does it, it can be catastrophic.

Not really. You're comparing a cyclist going full speed through an intersection, often when they dont have the right of way, to car that you think didn't technically completely 100 percent stop. Those aren't remotely the same thing.

Regardless, everyone should be following the law, and no one should be making up reasons why they are exempt from it.

A car that "stops" and a bike that rolls through an intersection are moving about the same speed, while the vehicle also has a few orders of magnitude more kinetic energy.

The unfortunate reality is that if everyone actually obeyed the law, including speed limits, the transportation system would collapse. So rather than finger pointing on who is a bigger scofflaw, maybe its time to revamp our infrastructure.

oh do tell. i would love to hear your completely batshit theory about how obeying traffic laws will blow up the whole system. (please note: a driver would never make such a crazy argument).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:saw a woman on a bike this evening with two kids abroad approach a four way stop intersection.

there were already two other cars at the intersection, each stopped at their respective stop signs and waiting to go through, before she had even reached the intersection.

and yet she just barreled on through the intersection at full speed, expecting everyone else to just wait on her. one car had to slam on its breaks.

feel bad for her kids. she is going to get them (and herself) killed.

bicyclists have no idea how idaho stops work, do they? or do they just not care?

If bicyclists were required to actually follow the rules of Idaho stops, no one would bike. They'd have to stop and start at the end of virtually every block and they'd get so tired out, they'd just stop riding.

Here you are again using terms you refuse to understand. Read the law around the Idaho Stop in DC and come back with some actual information, rather than prejudiced nonsense.

Here's the law. Given this, and the sheer number of cars and other people on the road, Idaho Stops should be relatively rare.

Code of the District of Columbia
§ 50–2201.04d. Riders' safe crossing at intersections.

(a) A rider approaching a stop sign may go straight through the intersection or make a turn without stopping; provided, that the rider:

(1) Is travelling at an appropriate speed to reasonably assess and avoid hazards;

(2) Determines there is no immediate hazard; and

(3) Yields the right-of-way to pedestrians and to other traffic lawfully using the intersection.

They're not that rare in residential neighborhoods outside of rush hour. I can usually get about a mile from my house before I approach an intersection with a stop sign at the same time as a pedestrian or another vehicle on my bike. (Traffic lights obviously are different.) By definition, the only people who really would know if most Idaho stops are being performed correctly are the cyclists doing the stopping; if there was someone else at the intersection, it wouldn't be legal. So the fact that we don't see people doing them right doesn't really prove that no one does.

FWIW, I always stop at stop signs on my bike if there are others at the intersection, though a lot of drivers seem to expect me not to and try to waive me to go. That may be an indication of typical cyclist behavior, or maybe they think they need to yield to bikes, or maybe they're trying to be helpful (though once I stop, I may as well wait for every car at an intersection to go, even if I have right of way).

DP. You really have a distorted view of reality. No one cares what you’re doing when no one sees you. The problem is what you’re doing when everyone sees you.

The problem I have is that every time I have been a at four way stop with a cyclist the cyclist breaks the law. You and your buddies need to stop breaking the law. It’s that simple.

*predicting that your response will be some whataboutism about cars*

And every time I am at a 4 way stop sign, someone driving a car is breaking the law.

The difference is, when a cyclist does it, the ramifications are minimal to nil. When someone driving a car does it, it can be catastrophic.

Not really. You're comparing a cyclist going full speed through an intersection, often when they dont have the right of way, to car that you think didn't technically completely 100 percent stop. Those aren't remotely the same thing.

Regardless, everyone should be following the law, and no one should be making up reasons why they are exempt from it.

A car that "stops" and a bike that rolls through an intersection are moving about the same speed, while the vehicle also has a few orders of magnitude more kinetic energy.

The unfortunate reality is that if everyone actually obeyed the law, including speed limits, the transportation system would collapse. So rather than finger pointing on who is a bigger scofflaw, maybe its time to revamp our infrastructure.

oh do tell. i would love to hear your completely batshit theory about how obeying traffic laws will blow up the whole system. (please note: a driver would never make such a crazy argument).

Speed limits being the obvious one. Stopping at yellows, stopping at signs, yielding to pedestrians, making only legal rights on red. If people don't park in bus stops/bike lanes and instead circle for parking, etc...

Drivers are so used to these things they don't even really consider them illegal anymore. Take away all those little violations and what happens to traffic flow? How many cars clear a light per cycle then vs now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:saw a woman on a bike this evening with two kids abroad approach a four way stop intersection.

there were already two other cars at the intersection, each stopped at their respective stop signs and waiting to go through, before she had even reached the intersection.

and yet she just barreled on through the intersection at full speed, expecting everyone else to just wait on her. one car had to slam on its breaks.

feel bad for her kids. she is going to get them (and herself) killed.

bicyclists have no idea how idaho stops work, do they? or do they just not care?

If bicyclists were required to actually follow the rules of Idaho stops, no one would bike. They'd have to stop and start at the end of virtually every block and they'd get so tired out, they'd just stop riding.

Here you are again using terms you refuse to understand. Read the law around the Idaho Stop in DC and come back with some actual information, rather than prejudiced nonsense.

Here's the law. Given this, and the sheer number of cars and other people on the road, Idaho Stops should be relatively rare.

Code of the District of Columbia
§ 50–2201.04d. Riders' safe crossing at intersections.

(a) A rider approaching a stop sign may go straight through the intersection or make a turn without stopping; provided, that the rider:

(1) Is travelling at an appropriate speed to reasonably assess and avoid hazards;

(2) Determines there is no immediate hazard; and

(3) Yields the right-of-way to pedestrians and to other traffic lawfully using the intersection.

They're not that rare in residential neighborhoods outside of rush hour. I can usually get about a mile from my house before I approach an intersection with a stop sign at the same time as a pedestrian or another vehicle on my bike. (Traffic lights obviously are different.) By definition, the only people who really would know if most Idaho stops are being performed correctly are the cyclists doing the stopping; if there was someone else at the intersection, it wouldn't be legal. So the fact that we don't see people doing them right doesn't really prove that no one does.

FWIW, I always stop at stop signs on my bike if there are others at the intersection, though a lot of drivers seem to expect me not to and try to waive me to go. That may be an indication of typical cyclist behavior, or maybe they think they need to yield to bikes, or maybe they're trying to be helpful (though once I stop, I may as well wait for every car at an intersection to go, even if I have right of way).

DP. You really have a distorted view of reality. No one cares what you’re doing when no one sees you. The problem is what you’re doing when everyone sees you.

The problem I have is that every time I have been a at four way stop with a cyclist the cyclist breaks the law. You and your buddies need to stop breaking the law. It’s that simple.

*predicting that your response will be some whataboutism about cars*

And every time I am at a 4 way stop sign, someone driving a car is breaking the law.

The difference is, when a cyclist does it, the ramifications are minimal to nil. When someone driving a car does it, it can be catastrophic.

Not really. You're comparing a cyclist going full speed through an intersection, often when they dont have the right of way, to car that you think didn't technically completely 100 percent stop. Those aren't remotely the same thing.

Regardless, everyone should be following the law, and no one should be making up reasons why they are exempt from it.

A car that "stops" and a bike that rolls through an intersection are moving about the same speed, while the vehicle also has a few orders of magnitude more kinetic energy.

The unfortunate reality is that if everyone actually obeyed the law, including speed limits, the transportation system would collapse. So rather than finger pointing on who is a bigger scofflaw, maybe its time to revamp our infrastructure.

oh do tell. i would love to hear your completely batshit theory about how obeying traffic laws will blow up the whole system. (please note: a driver would never make such a crazy argument).

Speed limits being the obvious one. Stopping at yellows, stopping at signs, yielding to pedestrians, making only legal rights on red. If people don't park in bus stops/bike lanes and instead circle for parking, etc...

Drivers are so used to these things they don't even really consider them illegal anymore. Take away all those little violations and what happens to traffic flow? How many cars clear a light per cycle then vs now?

Sounds completely unsafe. Only an idiot would put themselves in danger that way. That’s why there’s too few of you to justify spending more on infrastructure when cyclists regularly disdain what’s already been provided for them. You want to play in traffic at least take some minimal amount of responsibility for your own choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cyclists as a group know they piss off drivers (not just slowing us down and being totally unpredictable) but drivers as a group do NOT want to involved when your stupidity results in the inevitable accident.

Oh please. The very existence of a cyclist seems to piss off a large group of motorists (some of whom have commented many times on this thread). So what, you want all cyclists to just de-exist themselves?

People were complaining about the person who was going like 6 miles under the speed *limit* toward a red light saying they were being an ahole for being in the left lane when a vehicle was parked in the right for christsake.

Yes, some of these protest rides are to demonstrate that many cyclists exist. But even they are usually keeping to a lane or two depending on group size.

This.

Pedestrians don't want cyclists on the sidewalks.
Motorists don't want them on the streets.

But the motorists the oppose bike lanes and somehow wish they mode of transportation would simply vanish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:saw a woman on a bike this evening with two kids abroad approach a four way stop intersection.

there were already two other cars at the intersection, each stopped at their respective stop signs and waiting to go through, before she had even reached the intersection.

and yet she just barreled on through the intersection at full speed, expecting everyone else to just wait on her. one car had to slam on its breaks.

feel bad for her kids. she is going to get them (and herself) killed.

bicyclists have no idea how idaho stops work, do they? or do they just not care?

If bicyclists were required to actually follow the rules of Idaho stops, no one would bike. They'd have to stop and start at the end of virtually every block and they'd get so tired out, they'd just stop riding.

Here you are again using terms you refuse to understand. Read the law around the Idaho Stop in DC and come back with some actual information, rather than prejudiced nonsense.

Here's the law. Given this, and the sheer number of cars and other people on the road, Idaho Stops should be relatively rare.

Code of the District of Columbia
§ 50–2201.04d. Riders' safe crossing at intersections.

(a) A rider approaching a stop sign may go straight through the intersection or make a turn without stopping; provided, that the rider:

(1) Is travelling at an appropriate speed to reasonably assess and avoid hazards;

(2) Determines there is no immediate hazard; and

(3) Yields the right-of-way to pedestrians and to other traffic lawfully using the intersection.

They're not that rare in residential neighborhoods outside of rush hour. I can usually get about a mile from my house before I approach an intersection with a stop sign at the same time as a pedestrian or another vehicle on my bike. (Traffic lights obviously are different.) By definition, the only people who really would know if most Idaho stops are being performed correctly are the cyclists doing the stopping; if there was someone else at the intersection, it wouldn't be legal. So the fact that we don't see people doing them right doesn't really prove that no one does.

FWIW, I always stop at stop signs on my bike if there are others at the intersection, though a lot of drivers seem to expect me not to and try to waive me to go. That may be an indication of typical cyclist behavior, or maybe they think they need to yield to bikes, or maybe they're trying to be helpful (though once I stop, I may as well wait for every car at an intersection to go, even if I have right of way).

DP. You really have a distorted view of reality. No one cares what you’re doing when no one sees you. The problem is what you’re doing when everyone sees you.

The problem I have is that every time I have been a at four way stop with a cyclist the cyclist breaks the law. You and your buddies need to stop breaking the law. It’s that simple.

*predicting that your response will be some whataboutism about cars*

And every time I am at a 4 way stop sign, someone driving a car is breaking the law.

The difference is, when a cyclist does it, the ramifications are minimal to nil. When someone driving a car does it, it can be catastrophic.

Not really. You're comparing a cyclist going full speed through an intersection, often when they dont have the right of way, to car that you think didn't technically completely 100 percent stop. Those aren't remotely the same thing.

Regardless, everyone should be following the law, and no one should be making up reasons why they are exempt from it.

A car that "stops" and a bike that rolls through an intersection are moving about the same speed, while the vehicle also has a few orders of magnitude more kinetic energy.

The unfortunate reality is that if everyone actually obeyed the law, including speed limits, the transportation system would collapse. So rather than finger pointing on who is a bigger scofflaw, maybe its time to revamp our infrastructure.

oh do tell. i would love to hear your completely batshit theory about how obeying traffic laws will blow up the whole system. (please note: a driver would never make such a crazy argument).

Speed limits being the obvious one. Stopping at yellows, stopping at signs, yielding to pedestrians, making only legal rights on red. If people don't park in bus stops/bike lanes and instead circle for parking, etc...

Drivers are so used to these things they don't even really consider them illegal anymore. Take away all those little violations and what happens to traffic flow? How many cars clear a light per cycle then vs now?

How about this? Everyone follows the fkng law, regardless of whether they agree with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cyclists as a group know they piss off drivers (not just slowing us down and being totally unpredictable) but drivers as a group do NOT want to involved when your stupidity results in the inevitable accident.

Oh please. The very existence of a cyclist seems to piss off a large group of motorists (some of whom have commented many times on this thread). So what, you want all cyclists to just de-exist themselves?

People were complaining about the person who was going like 6 miles under the speed *limit* toward a red light saying they were being an ahole for being in the left lane when a vehicle was parked in the right for christsake.

Yes, some of these protest rides are to demonstrate that many cyclists exist. But even they are usually keeping to a lane or two depending on group size.

This.

Pedestrians don't want cyclists on the sidewalks.
Motorists don't want them on the streets.

But the motorists the oppose bike lanes and somehow wish they mode of transportation would simply vanish.

Or you could just take the bus? or walk or ride the subway or uber or drive. You have plenty of other options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cyclists as a group know they piss off drivers (not just slowing us down and being totally unpredictable) but drivers as a group do NOT want to involved when your stupidity results in the inevitable accident.

Oh please. The very existence of a cyclist seems to piss off a large group of motorists (some of whom have commented many times on this thread). So what, you want all cyclists to just de-exist themselves?

People were complaining about the person who was going like 6 miles under the speed *limit* toward a red light saying they were being an ahole for being in the left lane when a vehicle was parked in the right for christsake.

Yes, some of these protest rides are to demonstrate that many cyclists exist. But even they are usually keeping to a lane or two depending on group size.

This.

Pedestrians don't want cyclists on the sidewalks.
Motorists don't want them on the streets.

But the motorists the oppose bike lanes and somehow wish they mode of transportation would simply vanish.

Or you could just take the bus? or walk or ride the subway or uber or drive. You have plenty of other options.

So can motorists. Bicycles have been a viable transportation option for over a century.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cyclists as a group know they piss off drivers (not just slowing us down and being totally unpredictable) but drivers as a group do NOT want to involved when your stupidity results in the inevitable accident.

Oh please. The very existence of a cyclist seems to piss off a large group of motorists (some of whom have commented many times on this thread). So what, you want all cyclists to just de-exist themselves?

People were complaining about the person who was going like 6 miles under the speed *limit* toward a red light saying they were being an ahole for being in the left lane when a vehicle was parked in the right for christsake.

Yes, some of these protest rides are to demonstrate that many cyclists exist. But even they are usually keeping to a lane or two depending on group size.

This.

Pedestrians don't want cyclists on the sidewalks.
Motorists don't want them on the streets.

But the motorists the oppose bike lanes and somehow wish they mode of transportation would simply vanish.

Or you could just take the bus? or walk or ride the subway or uber or drive. You have plenty of other options.

So can motorists. Bicycles have been a viable transportation option for over a century.

Great! Discussion over! No need for special accommodations for cyclists!!! I don’t know what everyone is complaining about. Carry on!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:saw a woman on a bike this evening with two kids abroad approach a four way stop intersection.

there were already two other cars at the intersection, each stopped at their respective stop signs and waiting to go through, before she had even reached the intersection.

and yet she just barreled on through the intersection at full speed, expecting everyone else to just wait on her. one car had to slam on its breaks.

feel bad for her kids. she is going to get them (and herself) killed.

bicyclists have no idea how idaho stops work, do they? or do they just not care?

If bicyclists were required to actually follow the rules of Idaho stops, no one would bike. They'd have to stop and start at the end of virtually every block and they'd get so tired out, they'd just stop riding.

Here you are again using terms you refuse to understand. Read the law around the Idaho Stop in DC and come back with some actual information, rather than prejudiced nonsense.

The facts of the Idaho Stop law are that cyclists are permitted to treat stop signs as yield signs and pedal through intersections controlled by stop signs without stopping - IF - there are no other vehicles, cyclists or pedestrians in the intersection at the time.

That’s the facts.



The reality is no cyclist anywhere, ever, stops for a stop sign, regardless of circumstances. I know this because I’m also a cyclist on occasion. But I have such disdain for most other cyclists that I sometimes panic-stop at stop signs when someone is following me closely, just to see if I can make them crash into me. A few have. Mostly get mad, ask me why I slammed on my brakes?… I tell them “there was a car at the other side of the intersection so you can’t do an Idaho Stop”.

Mostly they’re all indignant. It hilarious.

Points for honestly, although I think I saw a cyclist stop for a stop sign once.