Is this late start into clinical psychology crazy?

[Anonymous]

37 years old. No work experience apart from research done for MS in biology 10+ years ago.
I have an interest in the field, but becoming a licensed psychologist (who does counseling and evaluations) will take 5 years at least, for a PhD and training.
I don't mind going back to school, but is it worth it?
Can practicing psychologists please weigh in? How much do you earn when you start?

Thank you.

[Anonymous]

If you want to be a therapist, look into social work -- that's only a two year program.

[Anonymous]

Take a vow of poverty. Most of the Psych PhDs I know never clear $100k.

[Anonymous]

As a clinical psychologist:

-Five years is an underestimate. Graduate school itself would take five years at a minimum, for many it takes six to get through everything (including internship). Depending on where you want to become licensed, you would then need at least a year of supervised practice before applying for licensure.
-Also: depending on what coursework you had in undergrad, you may need to complete additional course requirements, along with taking the GRE and psych GRE
-Getting into decent clinical psych programs is very, very difficult. Harder than getting into medical school. Most of the successful applicants have some experience in research and clinical work--not independent, of course, but maybe they've worked as a research assistant while volunteering for a crisis hotline. Many will have a publication or two and several presentations on their CVs.
-Starting salaries are not high, particularly not for someone unlicensed. You can earn a decent salary in private practice, but that takes time to build. I wouldn't expect to see six figures for a while. If you were to practice someplace like the VA or a hospital, the pay isn't super high but also is more stable.

So, you may well be looking at a 10 year endeavor, from getting the experience you need to get in, to actually getting in, to internship and licensure. Also: could you apply to programs all over, or just in the DC area? Those are quite competitive, as many people want to live here.

Last but not least, stay far, far away from any programs at for-profit places like Argosy, or various schools of professional psychology (and anything online, heaven forbid). You will pay an exorbitant amount of money for subpar training.

All this said, it's been worth it to me (I primarily do research now but am licensed and have done a lot of clinical work in the past). I love research and clinical work, though: if you're only interested in clinical practice, it's a ton of effort when a masters in social work, say, would probably suffice. You wouldn't do assessment, but could still do psychotherapy, program evaluation, etc. Happy to answer any more questions if you have them!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Take a vow of poverty. Most of the Psych PhDs I know never clear $100k.

There's a Psych PhD and a PsyD. How many do you know?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a clinical psychologist:

-Five years is an underestimate. Graduate school itself would take five years at a minimum, for many it takes six to get through everything (including internship). Depending on where you want to become licensed, you would then need at least a year of supervised practice before applying for licensure.
-Also: depending on what coursework you had in undergrad, you may need to complete additional course requirements, along with taking the GRE and psych GRE
-Getting into decent clinical psych programs is very, very difficult. Harder than getting into medical school. Most of the successful applicants have some experience in research and clinical work--not independent, of course, but maybe they've worked as a research assistant while volunteering for a crisis hotline. Many will have a publication or two and several presentations on their CVs.
-Starting salaries are not high, particularly not for someone unlicensed. You can earn a decent salary in private practice, but that takes time to build. I wouldn't expect to see six figures for a while. If you were to practice someplace like the VA or a hospital, the pay isn't super high but also is more stable.

So, you may well be looking at a 10 year endeavor, from getting the experience you need to get in, to actually getting in, to internship and licensure. Also: could you apply to programs all over, or just in the DC area? Those are quite competitive, as many people want to live here.

Last but not least, stay far, far away from any programs at for-profit places like Argosy, or various schools of professional psychology (and anything online, heaven forbid). You will pay an exorbitant amount of money for subpar training.

All this said, it's been worth it to me (I primarily do research now but am licensed and have done a lot of clinical work in the past). I love research and clinical work, though: if you're only interested in clinical practice, it's a ton of effort when a masters in social work, say, would probably suffice. You wouldn't do assessment, but could still do psychotherapy, program evaluation, etc. Happy to answer any more questions if you have them!

+1 to every bit of this. Bottom line: Unless you really want to do research, become an LCSW instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take a vow of poverty. Most of the Psych PhDs I know never clear $100k.

There's a Psych PhD and a PsyD. How many do you know?

PsyD programs are usually private and very expensive. The PP is right that it can easily be a 10 year investment. Think hard about the career- the pay rarely goes above 100k and there is high burnout in the field.

Some other options to consider aside from Psychologists include:
- social workers
-licensed professional counselors (LPC)
-school counselors
-guidance counselors
-Psychiatric nurses
-Psychiatric nurse practitioners

All of those options will be a much lower time investment, although they each have varying pay levels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take a vow of poverty. Most of the Psych PhDs I know never clear $100k.

There's a Psych PhD and a PsyD. How many do you know?

PsyD programs are usually private and very expensive. The PP is right that it can easily be a 10 year investment. Think hard about the career- the pay rarely goes above 100k and there is high burnout in the field.

Some other options to consider aside from Psychologists include:
- social workers
-licensed professional counselors (LPC)
-school counselors
-guidance counselors
-Psychiatric nurses
-Psychiatric nurse practitioners

All of those options will be a much lower time investment, although they each have varying pay levels.

I'm 13:32 above: this list comprises very different career paths and daily duties. A psych RN or CRNP isn't going to do psychotherapy, nor would school counselors or guidance counselors. Any counselor, including an LPC, is going to have a fairly limited scope of practice. An MSW is a robust degree that is well-respected and offers various career paths. It has some of the flexibility afforded by a PhD in clinical psychology, although obviously not as much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take a vow of poverty. Most of the Psych PhDs I know never clear $100k.

There's a Psych PhD and a PsyD. How many do you know?

I worked at a university in a field along side psychologists and had salary info. Between them and friends who constantly waffle between being SAHMs and working as clinical psychologists for $50k - $60k, I probably know a dozen. One earns over $100k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take a vow of poverty. Most of the Psych PhDs I know never clear $100k.

There's a Psych PhD and a PsyD. How many do you know?

PsyD programs are usually private and very expensive. The PP is right that it can easily be a 10 year investment. Think hard about the career- the pay rarely goes above 100k and there is high burnout in the field.

Some other options to consider aside from Psychologists include:
- social workers
-licensed professional counselors (LPC)
-school counselors
-guidance counselors
-Psychiatric nurses
-Psychiatric nurse practitioners

All of those options will be a much lower time investment, although they each have varying pay levels.

I'm 13:32 above: this list comprises very different career paths and daily duties. A psych RN or CRNP isn't going to do psychotherapy, nor would school counselors or guidance counselors. Any counselor, including an LPC, is going to have a fairly limited scope of practice. An MSW is a robust degree that is well-respected and offers various career paths. It has some of the flexibility afforded by a PhD in clinical psychology, although obviously not as much.

Just giving the OP some ideas based on his/her interest in mental health and related fields. Up to them to investigate the duties and education requirements more closely. Obviously a psych RN will do very different things than a school counselor!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take a vow of poverty. Most of the Psych PhDs I know never clear $100k.

There's a Psych PhD and a PsyD. How many do you know?

PsyD programs are usually private and very expensive. The PP is right that it can easily be a 10 year investment. Think hard about the career- the pay rarely goes above 100k and there is high burnout in the field.

Some other options to consider aside from Psychologists include:
- social workers
-licensed professional counselors (LPC)
-school counselors
-guidance counselors
-Psychiatric nurses
-Psychiatric nurse practitioners

All of those options will be a much lower time investment, although they each have varying pay levels.

I'm 13:32 above: this list comprises very different career paths and daily duties. A psych RN or CRNP isn't going to do psychotherapy, nor would school counselors or guidance counselors. Any counselor, including an LPC, is going to have a fairly limited scope of practice. An MSW is a robust degree that is well-respected and offers various career paths. It has some of the flexibility afforded by a PhD in clinical psychology, although obviously not as much.

I am an LPC and chose counseling v. social work because the program of study - at 3 years v. 2 years for SW - was much more clinically focused. I was surprised by how many of my SW colleagues never sat with clients before graduation. A counseling degree at an accredited school (make sure this is the case, OP) requires deep clinical experience and leaves candidates with a strong set of skills to use when accumulating those 3000 clinical hours required for licensure. I am in fee-for-service private practice and see a wide range of cases relating to my interests (and my post-graduation continuing ed). I made well into six figures last year, so no vows of poverty are required, but I have been in practice 10+ years.

But if you are planning to live and work in DC, SW might be a better call due to the prevalence of LICSWs and the associated preference for that affiliation when looking for internship placements, supervision and jobs.

OP, the median age of students in my MS-level grad program was 35, so you go ahead and make this change! You won't be the only one, and life experience is very useful in this work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take a vow of poverty. Most of the Psych PhDs I know never clear $100k.

There's a Psych PhD and a PsyD. How many do you know?

PsyD programs are usually private and very expensive. The PP is right that it can easily be a 10 year investment. Think hard about the career- the pay rarely goes above 100k and there is high burnout in the field.

Some other options to consider aside from Psychologists include:
- social workers
-licensed professional counselors (LPC)
-school counselors
-guidance counselors
-Psychiatric nurses
-Psychiatric nurse practitioners

All of those options will be a much lower time investment, although they each have varying pay levels.

I'm 13:32 above: this list comprises very different career paths and daily duties. A psych RN or CRNP isn't going to do psychotherapy, nor would school counselors or guidance counselors. Any counselor, including an LPC, is going to have a fairly limited scope of practice. An MSW is a robust degree that is well-respected and offers various career paths. It has some of the flexibility afforded by a PhD in clinical psychology, although obviously not as much.

I am an LPC and chose counseling v. social work because the program of study - at 3 years v. 2 years for SW - was much more clinically focused. I was surprised by how many of my SW colleagues never sat with clients before graduation. A counseling degree at an accredited school (make sure this is the case, OP) requires deep clinical experience and leaves candidates with a strong set of skills to use when accumulating those 3000 clinical hours required for licensure. I am in fee-for-service private practice and see a wide range of cases relating to my interests (and my post-graduation continuing ed). I made well into six figures last year, so no vows of poverty are required, but I have been in practice 10+ years.

But if you are planning to live and work in DC, SW might be a better call due to the prevalence of LICSWs and the associated preference for that affiliation when looking for internship placements, supervision and jobs.

OP, the median age of students in my MS-level grad program was 35, so you go ahead and make this change! You won't be the only one, and life experience is very useful in this work.

PP again: the differences between an LPC and MSW may be program-dependent, but most of the former are not three years. I know plenty of counseling programs that do not require deep clinical experience and don't turn out well-prepared candidates. Obviously, not all are the same. And like it or not, an MSW is absolutely more respected and in most states will allow for more responsibility than counselors. LPCs (or MSWs, or clinical psychologists, for that matter) making well into the six figures is not at all the norm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take a vow of poverty. Most of the Psych PhDs I know never clear $100k.

There's a Psych PhD and a PsyD. How many do you know?

PsyD programs are usually private and very expensive. The PP is right that it can easily be a 10 year investment. Think hard about the career- the pay rarely goes above 100k and there is high burnout in the field.

Some other options to consider aside from Psychologists include:
- social workers
-licensed professional counselors (LPC)
-school counselors
-guidance counselors
-Psychiatric nurses
-Psychiatric nurse practitioners

All of those options will be a much lower time investment, although they each have varying pay levels.

I'm 13:32 above: this list comprises very different career paths and daily duties. A psych RN or CRNP isn't going to do psychotherapy, nor would school counselors or guidance counselors. Any counselor, including an LPC, is going to have a fairly limited scope of practice. An MSW is a robust degree that is well-respected and offers various career paths. It has some of the flexibility afforded by a PhD in clinical psychology, although obviously not as much.

I am an LPC and chose counseling v. social work because the program of study - at 3 years v. 2 years for SW - was much more clinically focused. I was surprised by how many of my SW colleagues never sat with clients before graduation. A counseling degree at an accredited school (make sure this is the case, OP) requires deep clinical experience and leaves candidates with a strong set of skills to use when accumulating those 3000 clinical hours required for licensure. I am in fee-for-service private practice and see a wide range of cases relating to my interests (and my post-graduation continuing ed). I made well into six figures last year, so no vows of poverty are required, but I have been in practice 10+ years.

But if you are planning to live and work in DC, SW might be a better call due to the prevalence of LICSWs and the associated preference for that affiliation when looking for internship placements, supervision and jobs.

OP, the median age of students in my MS-level grad program was 35, so you go ahead and make this change! You won't be the only one, and life experience is very useful in this work.

I'm in a social work program, and I don't understand how this is possible. My program has 2 internships (one of which is 480 hours and the other is 600 hours, completed over an academic year). Other programs have more or less fieldwork, and obviously your internship itself may involve more or less face time with clients, but unless you're talking about colleagues who didn't practice individual counseling or something, I don't see how that's possible for a MSW in the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take a vow of poverty. Most of the Psych PhDs I know never clear $100k.

There's a Psych PhD and a PsyD. How many do you know?

PsyD programs are usually private and very expensive. The PP is right that it can easily be a 10 year investment. Think hard about the career- the pay rarely goes above 100k and there is high burnout in the field.

Some other options to consider aside from Psychologists include:
- social workers
-licensed professional counselors (LPC)
-school counselors
-guidance counselors
-Psychiatric nurses
-Psychiatric nurse practitioners

All of those options will be a much lower time investment, although they each have varying pay levels.

I'm 13:32 above: this list comprises very different career paths and daily duties. A psych RN or CRNP isn't going to do psychotherapy, nor would school counselors or guidance counselors. Any counselor, including an LPC, is going to have a fairly limited scope of practice. An MSW is a robust degree that is well-respected and offers various career paths. It has some of the flexibility afforded by a PhD in clinical psychology, although obviously not as much.

I am an LPC and chose counseling v. social work because the program of study - at 3 years v. 2 years for SW - was much more clinically focused. I was surprised by how many of my SW colleagues never sat with clients before graduation. A counseling degree at an accredited school (make sure this is the case, OP) requires deep clinical experience and leaves candidates with a strong set of skills to use when accumulating those 3000 clinical hours required for licensure. I am in fee-for-service private practice and see a wide range of cases relating to my interests (and my post-graduation continuing ed). I made well into six figures last year, so no vows of poverty are required, but I have been in practice 10+ years.

But if you are planning to live and work in DC, SW might be a better call due to the prevalence of LICSWs and the associated preference for that affiliation when looking for internship placements, supervision and jobs.

OP, the median age of students in my MS-level grad program was 35, so you go ahead and make this change! You won't be the only one, and life experience is very useful in this work.

I'm in a social work program, and I don't understand how this is possible. My program has 2 internships (one of which is 480 hours and the other is 600 hours, completed over an academic year). Other programs have more or less fieldwork, and obviously your internship itself may involve more or less face time with clients, but unless you're talking about colleagues who didn't practice individual counseling or something, I don't see how that's possible for a MSW in the US.

Sorry for the confusion - those I mentioned colleagues hadn't sat with clients for actual therapy or with clinical supervision of those sessions (taping/video, live consultations), but had done quite a bit of case management in their internships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take a vow of poverty. Most of the Psych PhDs I know never clear $100k.

There's a Psych PhD and a PsyD. How many do you know?

PsyD programs are usually private and very expensive. The PP is right that it can easily be a 10 year investment. Think hard about the career- the pay rarely goes above 100k and there is high burnout in the field.

Some other options to consider aside from Psychologists include:
- social workers
-licensed professional counselors (LPC)
-school counselors
-guidance counselors
-Psychiatric nurses
-Psychiatric nurse practitioners

All of those options will be a much lower time investment, although they each have varying pay levels.

I'm 13:32 above: this list comprises very different career paths and daily duties. A psych RN or CRNP isn't going to do psychotherapy, nor would school counselors or guidance counselors. Any counselor, including an LPC, is going to have a fairly limited scope of practice. An MSW is a robust degree that is well-respected and offers various career paths. It has some of the flexibility afforded by a PhD in clinical psychology, although obviously not as much.

I am an LPC and chose counseling v. social work because the program of study - at 3 years v. 2 years for SW - was much more clinically focused. I was surprised by how many of my SW colleagues never sat with clients before graduation. A counseling degree at an accredited school (make sure this is the case, OP) requires deep clinical experience and leaves candidates with a strong set of skills to use when accumulating those 3000 clinical hours required for licensure. I am in fee-for-service private practice and see a wide range of cases relating to my interests (and my post-graduation continuing ed). I made well into six figures last year, so no vows of poverty are required, but I have been in practice 10+ years.

But if you are planning to live and work in DC, SW might be a better call due to the prevalence of LICSWs and the associated preference for that affiliation when looking for internship placements, supervision and jobs.

OP, the median age of students in my MS-level grad program was 35, so you go ahead and make this change! You won't be the only one, and life experience is very useful in this work.

I'm in a social work program, and I don't understand how this is possible. My program has 2 internships (one of which is 480 hours and the other is 600 hours, completed over an academic year). Other programs have more or less fieldwork, and obviously your internship itself may involve more or less face time with clients, but unless you're talking about colleagues who didn't practice individual counseling or something, I don't see how that's possible for a MSW in the US.

Sorry for the confusion - those I mentioned colleagues hadn't sat with clients for actual therapy or with clinical supervision of those sessions (taping/video, live consultations), but had done quite a bit of case management in their internships.

Not all social workers want to do clinical work. You do two year long internships for your masters degree. Its heavy internship - 2 days a week the first year and 3 days a week the second year.