Why can’t boys join Girl Scouts ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like PP said, the organizations are unrelated and each makes their own rules. If Girl Scouts USA wanted to allow boys they could probably just change their policies to allow it, but I don't think it aligns with their mission. Girl Scouts is all about empowering girls. I could see how boys might want to join the girls - the troops I've been involved in have had a lot of focus on entrepreneurship, learning about scouts around the world and other cultures, and handcrafting skills and I don't think that is a focus in boy scouts at all.
But anyway, they designed the program with girls in mind - they want to be a safe space for girls and allow girls to have a designed place to take on leadership roles. They cite research on the benefits of all-female environments for girls and also on how girls perform more cautiously or deferentially when boys are present.
Membership is based on identity so trans girls are welcome in girls scouts.

As a parent of a boy and a girl, I absolutely love how there are girl- only spaces for my daughter (she does Girl Scouts and girls on the run- has friends who do girls who code but she isn’t interested). I truly, truly wish there were similar boys-only spaces for my son.

As a mom of two boys, there are plenty of boys only spaces available. The whole of US society centers on whiteness, straightness, and maleness being the neutral standard and any other identity is just that, an “Other” that must be specified and defined. If you don’t understand why people defined by their otherness would want designated spaces or if you feel like the existence of those spaces is somehow denying your sons something they are entitled to, then you are part of reason those spaces are needed in the first place.

DP. That poster may be part of the reason those spaces are needed but her sons aren't. They are kids. And while girls-only spaces are good for girls, it is also true that boys-only spaces are good for boys, combined with coed spaces.

As women continue to advocate for girls- and women-only spaces, it makes no sense to me that they refuse to understand why boys- or men-only spaces might also be a good idea.

Boys have boys only spaces. There's a couple parallels to Girls on the Run for boys. BSA is mostly separated by gender at the pack, troop, or patrol level.

Except they do all of the activities with girls, including camping and camps. So no, they are not boy only spaces.

Not true at all. There are still lots and lots boys-only troops and packs. 95% of Scouting activities will be only within the confines of your troop or pack.

Sure, you may run across some girl Scouts BSA at a regional jamboree, but that's basically a once per year occurrence and no one is forcing your kid to even interact with them.

Scouts BSA can be a "boys only" space if that's what you want for your kid and your family. It still exists, you just need to seek out a troop or pack that caters to boys-only.

Search for yourself: https://beascout.scouting.org/

It even allows you to filter by "Girl Pack" or "Boy Pack" that are single gender. Within 20 miles of my DC zip code there are 44 boy-only Cub Scout packs. Knock yourself out.

PP you are responding to and I'm very familiar. My son is in BSA. But again, you're missing the point. What used to be exclusively for boys is no longer.

So? How does the policy affect your son if he's in a boys-only pack or troop? I really don't get the complaint. Your son goes to weekly pack/troop meetings + camp outs + other activities in a boys-only space.

What I'm asking is.....what's your point?

It's not a boys only space. There are girls at every event, campout, fundraiser, etc and they get Eagle Scout rank just like boys. There would be nothing wrong if boys had their own space too. It creates logistical problems and we have to make sure that none of the shenanigans go on with 15-16 year olds in the middle of the night, for example.

Change troops? My son's troop is all boys, so there are no girls at events, campouts, or fundraisers (unless they are attending as guests or volunteers).

Our leaving the troop would hardly change the fact that girls would still be there after our departure.

So to recap:

Your son is in a BSA troop. By BSA rules, this is all boys, so most of his experience is going to be a boys only environment. The troop chooses to host some events with a girls troop, though, so it's not the entirety of the experience. Your son could choose to move to a troop that doesn't do that, but that wouldn't be good enough, because the OTHER troop would still be camping near girls. Pointing out to you that this is a problem you could easily solve is the same thing as blaming your son for all of the sexism in history.

Yeah that all makes sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would they want to? Girl Scouts seems to exist to just get girls to sell cookies. Its a MLM org for girls.

Thin Mints, ftw! Never affiliated with Girl Scouts. I would gladly pay for those MLM cookies. To me it's a seasonal treat and an opportunity to be friendly to co-workers. No worse than Paul Newman's or Whole Foods cookie prices.

Fundraising skills are relevant to adulthood...communicating objectives, asking for support, being part of a community, etc.

The girls that are in it seem to be having fun and learning something.

I do think it was a bit of a market share grab by the Boy Scouts but I can appreciate that some people want to affiliate with a single organization for their entire set of kids.

The cookies aren't my favorite part of Girl Scouts*, but my daughter definitely gets something out the sale in terms of learning to communicate to adults, handle rejection, set goals, etc. Girl Scouts is also very variable by troop, but I've never seen a troop that was either just about selling cookies or about "everything feminine." Our troop is about outdoor skills and STEM stuff mostly because that's what the troop enjoys.

I've got a lot of criticisms of the Girl Scout program, but "it's all cookies" or "it's too feminine" are both pretty far off the mark in my experience.

*I'm the cookie manager, but that's because it's a role I can fill as a father without issue

I've been in 3 diff GS troops. At 2 different schools. 3 troops because the leadership kept fizzling and a new mom tried to spin off and start a new troop instead just picking up where the last one left off. All were very poorly run. I get that it's a lot of effort and I think GS doesn't make it easy, but we had just a few meetings, did very little, then suddenly for 3 months it was nothing but cookies and maybe a small party at the end with our earnings. For 4 years all I remember doing was selling cookies and my daughter got very little out of the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This post on the Girl Scouts website explains their philosophy: https://www.girlscouts.org/en/raising-girls/happy-and-healthy/happy/girls-only-single-gender-empowering-girls.html

Be honest. That philosophy is at least 20-30 years out of date.

Sadly, no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like PP said, the organizations are unrelated and each makes their own rules. If Girl Scouts USA wanted to allow boys they could probably just change their policies to allow it, but I don't think it aligns with their mission. Girl Scouts is all about empowering girls. I could see how boys might want to join the girls - the troops I've been involved in have had a lot of focus on entrepreneurship, learning about scouts around the world and other cultures, and handcrafting skills and I don't think that is a focus in boy scouts at all.
But anyway, they designed the program with girls in mind - they want to be a safe space for girls and allow girls to have a designed place to take on leadership roles. They cite research on the benefits of all-female environments for girls and also on how girls perform more cautiously or deferentially when boys are present.
Membership is based on identity so trans girls are welcome in girls scouts.

As a parent of a boy and a girl, I absolutely love how there are girl- only spaces for my daughter (she does Girl Scouts and girls on the run- has friends who do girls who code but she isn’t interested). I truly, truly wish there were similar boys-only spaces for my son.

As a mom of two boys, there are plenty of boys only spaces available. The whole of US society centers on whiteness, straightness, and maleness being the neutral standard and any other identity is just that, an “Other” that must be specified and defined. If you don’t understand why people defined by their otherness would want designated spaces or if you feel like the existence of those spaces is somehow denying your sons something they are entitled to, then you are part of reason those spaces are needed in the first place.

DP. That poster may be part of the reason those spaces are needed but her sons aren't. They are kids. And while girls-only spaces are good for girls, it is also true that boys-only spaces are good for boys, combined with coed spaces.

As women continue to advocate for girls- and women-only spaces, it makes no sense to me that they refuse to understand why boys- or men-only spaces might also be a good idea.

Boys have boys only spaces. There's a couple parallels to Girls on the Run for boys. BSA is mostly separated by gender at the pack, troop, or patrol level.

Except they do all of the activities with girls, including camping and camps. So no, they are not boy only spaces.

Not true at all. There are still lots and lots boys-only troops and packs. 95% of Scouting activities will be only within the confines of your troop or pack.

Sure, you may run across some girl Scouts BSA at a regional jamboree, but that's basically a once per year occurrence and no one is forcing your kid to even interact with them.

Scouts BSA can be a "boys only" space if that's what you want for your kid and your family. It still exists, you just need to seek out a troop or pack that caters to boys-only.

Search for yourself: https://beascout.scouting.org/

It even allows you to filter by "Girl Pack" or "Boy Pack" that are single gender. Within 20 miles of my DC zip code there are 44 boy-only Cub Scout packs. Knock yourself out.

PP you are responding to and I'm very familiar. My son is in BSA. But again, you're missing the point. What used to be exclusively for boys is no longer.

So? How does the policy affect your son if he's in a boys-only pack or troop? I really don't get the complaint. Your son goes to weekly pack/troop meetings + camp outs + other activities in a boys-only space.

What I'm asking is.....what's your point?

It's not a boys only space. There are girls at every event, campout, fundraiser, etc and they get Eagle Scout rank just like boys. There would be nothing wrong if boys had their own space too. It creates logistical problems and we have to make sure that none of the shenanigans go on with 15-16 year olds in the middle of the night, for example.

Change troops? My son's troop is all boys, so there are no girls at events, campouts, or fundraisers (unless they are attending as guests or volunteers).

Our leaving the troop would hardly change the fact that girls would still be there after our departure.

So to recap:

Your son is in a BSA troop. By BSA rules, this is all boys, so most of his experience is going to be a boys only environment. The troop chooses to host some events with a girls troop, though, so it's not the entirety of the experience. Your son could choose to move to a troop that doesn't do that, but that wouldn't be good enough, because the OTHER troop would still be camping near girls. Pointing out to you that this is a problem you could easily solve is the same thing as blaming your son for all of the sexism in history.

Yeah that all makes sense.

For the 15th time it's not a boys only environment. You have to be intentionally obtuse at this point. It's coed in every sense except on paper.

The point of the thread, in case you missed it, is to discuss why girl scouts don't accept boys and BSA accepts girls. Yes, if we left this particular troop which I never said we wanted to do though you suggested it several times, girls would still be a part of it. I wasn't asking you for advice or to solve any problem.

Yes, we do force organizations to accept girls in the name of equity even where it doesn't make practical sense. Yes, it would be good if boys had a space just for themselves the same way you think it's a good idea that girls have a space for themselves. Is that so hard to understand?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like PP said, the organizations are unrelated and each makes their own rules. If Girl Scouts USA wanted to allow boys they could probably just change their policies to allow it, but I don't think it aligns with their mission. Girl Scouts is all about empowering girls. I could see how boys might want to join the girls - the troops I've been involved in have had a lot of focus on entrepreneurship, learning about scouts around the world and other cultures, and handcrafting skills and I don't think that is a focus in boy scouts at all.
But anyway, they designed the program with girls in mind - they want to be a safe space for girls and allow girls to have a designed place to take on leadership roles. They cite research on the benefits of all-female environments for girls and also on how girls perform more cautiously or deferentially when boys are present.
Membership is based on identity so trans girls are welcome in girls scouts.

As a parent of a boy and a girl, I absolutely love how there are girl- only spaces for my daughter (she does Girl Scouts and girls on the run- has friends who do girls who code but she isn’t interested). I truly, truly wish there were similar boys-only spaces for my son.

As a mom of two boys, there are plenty of boys only spaces available. The whole of US society centers on whiteness, straightness, and maleness being the neutral standard and any other identity is just that, an “Other” that must be specified and defined. If you don’t understand why people defined by their otherness would want designated spaces or if you feel like the existence of those spaces is somehow denying your sons something they are entitled to, then you are part of reason those spaces are needed in the first place.

DP. That poster may be part of the reason those spaces are needed but her sons aren't. They are kids. And while girls-only spaces are good for girls, it is also true that boys-only spaces are good for boys, combined with coed spaces.

As women continue to advocate for girls- and women-only spaces, it makes no sense to me that they refuse to understand why boys- or men-only spaces might also be a good idea.

Boys have boys only spaces. There's a couple parallels to Girls on the Run for boys. BSA is mostly separated by gender at the pack, troop, or patrol level.

Except they do all of the activities with girls, including camping and camps. So no, they are not boy only spaces.

Not true at all. There are still lots and lots boys-only troops and packs. 95% of Scouting activities will be only within the confines of your troop or pack.

Sure, you may run across some girl Scouts BSA at a regional jamboree, but that's basically a once per year occurrence and no one is forcing your kid to even interact with them.

Scouts BSA can be a "boys only" space if that's what you want for your kid and your family. It still exists, you just need to seek out a troop or pack that caters to boys-only.

Search for yourself: https://beascout.scouting.org/

It even allows you to filter by "Girl Pack" or "Boy Pack" that are single gender. Within 20 miles of my DC zip code there are 44 boy-only Cub Scout packs. Knock yourself out.

PP you are responding to and I'm very familiar. My son is in BSA. But again, you're missing the point. What used to be exclusively for boys is no longer.

So? How does the policy affect your son if he's in a boys-only pack or troop? I really don't get the complaint. Your son goes to weekly pack/troop meetings + camp outs + other activities in a boys-only space.

What I'm asking is.....what's your point?

It's not a boys only space. There are girls at every event, campout, fundraiser, etc and they get Eagle Scout rank just like boys. There would be nothing wrong if boys had their own space too. It creates logistical problems and we have to make sure that none of the shenanigans go on with 15-16 year olds in the middle of the night, for example.

Change troops? My son's troop is all boys, so there are no girls at events, campouts, or fundraisers (unless they are attending as guests or volunteers).

Our leaving the troop would hardly change the fact that girls would still be there after our departure.

Okay, so your problem isn't actually that your son lacks an all-male environment, nor is your problem that you don't want to deal with "shenanigans." Your problem is that girls exist...somewhere, even if they are not actually near your own son.

great great great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like PP said, the organizations are unrelated and each makes their own rules. If Girl Scouts USA wanted to allow boys they could probably just change their policies to allow it, but I don't think it aligns with their mission. Girl Scouts is all about empowering girls. I could see how boys might want to join the girls - the troops I've been involved in have had a lot of focus on entrepreneurship, learning about scouts around the world and other cultures, and handcrafting skills and I don't think that is a focus in boy scouts at all.
But anyway, they designed the program with girls in mind - they want to be a safe space for girls and allow girls to have a designed place to take on leadership roles. They cite research on the benefits of all-female environments for girls and also on how girls perform more cautiously or deferentially when boys are present.
Membership is based on identity so trans girls are welcome in girls scouts.

As a parent of a boy and a girl, I absolutely love how there are girl- only spaces for my daughter (she does Girl Scouts and girls on the run- has friends who do girls who code but she isn’t interested). I truly, truly wish there were similar boys-only spaces for my son.

As a mom of two boys, there are plenty of boys only spaces available. The whole of US society centers on whiteness, straightness, and maleness being the neutral standard and any other identity is just that, an “Other” that must be specified and defined. If you don’t understand why people defined by their otherness would want designated spaces or if you feel like the existence of those spaces is somehow denying your sons something they are entitled to, then you are part of reason those spaces are needed in the first place.

DP. That poster may be part of the reason those spaces are needed but her sons aren't. They are kids. And while girls-only spaces are good for girls, it is also true that boys-only spaces are good for boys, combined with coed spaces.

As women continue to advocate for girls- and women-only spaces, it makes no sense to me that they refuse to understand why boys- or men-only spaces might also be a good idea.

Boys have boys only spaces. There's a couple parallels to Girls on the Run for boys. BSA is mostly separated by gender at the pack, troop, or patrol level.

Except they do all of the activities with girls, including camping and camps. So no, they are not boy only spaces.

Not true at all. There are still lots and lots boys-only troops and packs. 95% of Scouting activities will be only within the confines of your troop or pack.

Sure, you may run across some girl Scouts BSA at a regional jamboree, but that's basically a once per year occurrence and no one is forcing your kid to even interact with them.

Scouts BSA can be a "boys only" space if that's what you want for your kid and your family. It still exists, you just need to seek out a troop or pack that caters to boys-only.

Search for yourself: https://beascout.scouting.org/

It even allows you to filter by "Girl Pack" or "Boy Pack" that are single gender. Within 20 miles of my DC zip code there are 44 boy-only Cub Scout packs. Knock yourself out.

PP you are responding to and I'm very familiar. My son is in BSA. But again, you're missing the point. What used to be exclusively for boys is no longer.

So? How does the policy affect your son if he's in a boys-only pack or troop? I really don't get the complaint. Your son goes to weekly pack/troop meetings + camp outs + other activities in a boys-only space.

What I'm asking is.....what's your point?

It's not a boys only space. There are girls at every event, campout, fundraiser, etc and they get Eagle Scout rank just like boys. There would be nothing wrong if boys had their own space too. It creates logistical problems and we have to make sure that none of the shenanigans go on with 15-16 year olds in the middle of the night, for example.

Change troops? My son's troop is all boys, so there are no girls at events, campouts, or fundraisers (unless they are attending as guests or volunteers).

Our leaving the troop would hardly change the fact that girls would still be there after our departure.

Okay, so your problem isn't actually that your son lacks an all-male environment, nor is your problem that you don't want to deal with "shenanigans." Your problem is that girls exist...somewhere, even if they are not actually near your own son.

great great great.

You sound really dumb when you assign words to people they never said or thought. Especially, after I've repeatedly said the opposite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like PP said, the organizations are unrelated and each makes their own rules. If Girl Scouts USA wanted to allow boys they could probably just change their policies to allow it, but I don't think it aligns with their mission. Girl Scouts is all about empowering girls. I could see how boys might want to join the girls - the troops I've been involved in have had a lot of focus on entrepreneurship, learning about scouts around the world and other cultures, and handcrafting skills and I don't think that is a focus in boy scouts at all.
But anyway, they designed the program with girls in mind - they want to be a safe space for girls and allow girls to have a designed place to take on leadership roles. They cite research on the benefits of all-female environments for girls and also on how girls perform more cautiously or deferentially when boys are present.
Membership is based on identity so trans girls are welcome in girls scouts.

As a parent of a boy and a girl, I absolutely love how there are girl- only spaces for my daughter (she does Girl Scouts and girls on the run- has friends who do girls who code but she isn’t interested). I truly, truly wish there were similar boys-only spaces for my son.

As a mom of two boys, there are plenty of boys only spaces available. The whole of US society centers on whiteness, straightness, and maleness being the neutral standard and any other identity is just that, an “Other” that must be specified and defined. If you don’t understand why people defined by their otherness would want designated spaces or if you feel like the existence of those spaces is somehow denying your sons something they are entitled to, then you are part of reason those spaces are needed in the first place.

DP. That poster may be part of the reason those spaces are needed but her sons aren't. They are kids. And while girls-only spaces are good for girls, it is also true that boys-only spaces are good for boys, combined with coed spaces.

As women continue to advocate for girls- and women-only spaces, it makes no sense to me that they refuse to understand why boys- or men-only spaces might also be a good idea.

Boys have boys only spaces. There's a couple parallels to Girls on the Run for boys. BSA is mostly separated by gender at the pack, troop, or patrol level.

Except they do all of the activities with girls, including camping and camps. So no, they are not boy only spaces.

Not true at all. There are still lots and lots boys-only troops and packs. 95% of Scouting activities will be only within the confines of your troop or pack.

Sure, you may run across some girl Scouts BSA at a regional jamboree, but that's basically a once per year occurrence and no one is forcing your kid to even interact with them.

Scouts BSA can be a "boys only" space if that's what you want for your kid and your family. It still exists, you just need to seek out a troop or pack that caters to boys-only.

Search for yourself: https://beascout.scouting.org/

It even allows you to filter by "Girl Pack" or "Boy Pack" that are single gender. Within 20 miles of my DC zip code there are 44 boy-only Cub Scout packs. Knock yourself out.

PP you are responding to and I'm very familiar. My son is in BSA. But again, you're missing the point. What used to be exclusively for boys is no longer.

So? How does the policy affect your son if he's in a boys-only pack or troop? I really don't get the complaint. Your son goes to weekly pack/troop meetings + camp outs + other activities in a boys-only space.

What I'm asking is.....what's your point?

It's not a boys only space. There are girls at every event, campout, fundraiser, etc and they get Eagle Scout rank just like boys. There would be nothing wrong if boys had their own space too. It creates logistical problems and we have to make sure that none of the shenanigans go on with 15-16 year olds in the middle of the night, for example.

Change troops? My son's troop is all boys, so there are no girls at events, campouts, or fundraisers (unless they are attending as guests or volunteers).

Our leaving the troop would hardly change the fact that girls would still be there after our departure.

So to recap:

Your son is in a BSA troop. By BSA rules, this is all boys, so most of his experience is going to be a boys only environment. The troop chooses to host some events with a girls troop, though, so it's not the entirety of the experience. Your son could choose to move to a troop that doesn't do that, but that wouldn't be good enough, because the OTHER troop would still be camping near girls. Pointing out to you that this is a problem you could easily solve is the same thing as blaming your son for all of the sexism in history.

Yeah that all makes sense.

For the 15th time it's not a boys only environment. You have to be intentionally obtuse at this point. It's coed in every sense except on paper.

The point of the thread, in case you missed it, is to discuss why girl scouts don't accept boys and BSA accepts girls. Yes, if we left this particular troop which I never said we wanted to do though you suggested it several times, girls would still be a part of it. I wasn't asking you for advice or to solve any problem.

Yes, we do force organizations to accept girls in the name of equity even where it doesn't make practical sense. Yes, it would be good if boys had a space just for themselves the same way you think it's a good idea that girls have a space for themselves. Is that so hard to understand?

New poster here:
Buddy, no one knows what the hell you're complaining about. The thing you want - "a boys-only space" - has never existed in Boy Scouting. There were always moms and sisters around decades ago, participating in activities and camp outs.

If you want a boys-only space, send him to an all-boys boarding school in some rural wasteland where he never needs to cross paths with a female.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like PP said, the organizations are unrelated and each makes their own rules. If Girl Scouts USA wanted to allow boys they could probably just change their policies to allow it, but I don't think it aligns with their mission. Girl Scouts is all about empowering girls. I could see how boys might want to join the girls - the troops I've been involved in have had a lot of focus on entrepreneurship, learning about scouts around the world and other cultures, and handcrafting skills and I don't think that is a focus in boy scouts at all.
But anyway, they designed the program with girls in mind - they want to be a safe space for girls and allow girls to have a designed place to take on leadership roles. They cite research on the benefits of all-female environments for girls and also on how girls perform more cautiously or deferentially when boys are present.
Membership is based on identity so trans girls are welcome in girls scouts.

As a parent of a boy and a girl, I absolutely love how there are girl- only spaces for my daughter (she does Girl Scouts and girls on the run- has friends who do girls who code but she isn’t interested). I truly, truly wish there were similar boys-only spaces for my son.

As a mom of two boys, there are plenty of boys only spaces available. The whole of US society centers on whiteness, straightness, and maleness being the neutral standard and any other identity is just that, an “Other” that must be specified and defined. If you don’t understand why people defined by their otherness would want designated spaces or if you feel like the existence of those spaces is somehow denying your sons something they are entitled to, then you are part of reason those spaces are needed in the first place.

DP. That poster may be part of the reason those spaces are needed but her sons aren't. They are kids. And while girls-only spaces are good for girls, it is also true that boys-only spaces are good for boys, combined with coed spaces.

As women continue to advocate for girls- and women-only spaces, it makes no sense to me that they refuse to understand why boys- or men-only spaces might also be a good idea.

Boys have boys only spaces. There's a couple parallels to Girls on the Run for boys. BSA is mostly separated by gender at the pack, troop, or patrol level.

Except they do all of the activities with girls, including camping and camps. So no, they are not boy only spaces.

Not true at all. There are still lots and lots boys-only troops and packs. 95% of Scouting activities will be only within the confines of your troop or pack.

Sure, you may run across some girl Scouts BSA at a regional jamboree, but that's basically a once per year occurrence and no one is forcing your kid to even interact with them.

Scouts BSA can be a "boys only" space if that's what you want for your kid and your family. It still exists, you just need to seek out a troop or pack that caters to boys-only.

Search for yourself: https://beascout.scouting.org/

It even allows you to filter by "Girl Pack" or "Boy Pack" that are single gender. Within 20 miles of my DC zip code there are 44 boy-only Cub Scout packs. Knock yourself out.

PP you are responding to and I'm very familiar. My son is in BSA. But again, you're missing the point. What used to be exclusively for boys is no longer.

So? How does the policy affect your son if he's in a boys-only pack or troop? I really don't get the complaint. Your son goes to weekly pack/troop meetings + camp outs + other activities in a boys-only space.

What I'm asking is.....what's your point?

It's not a boys only space. There are girls at every event, campout, fundraiser, etc and they get Eagle Scout rank just like boys. There would be nothing wrong if boys had their own space too. It creates logistical problems and we have to make sure that none of the shenanigans go on with 15-16 year olds in the middle of the night, for example.

Change troops? My son's troop is all boys, so there are no girls at events, campouts, or fundraisers (unless they are attending as guests or volunteers).

Our leaving the troop would hardly change the fact that girls would still be there after our departure.

So to recap:

Your son is in a BSA troop. By BSA rules, this is all boys, so most of his experience is going to be a boys only environment. The troop chooses to host some events with a girls troop, though, so it's not the entirety of the experience. Your son could choose to move to a troop that doesn't do that, but that wouldn't be good enough, because the OTHER troop would still be camping near girls. Pointing out to you that this is a problem you could easily solve is the same thing as blaming your son for all of the sexism in history.

Yeah that all makes sense.

For the 15th time it's not a boys only environment. You have to be intentionally obtuse at this point. It's coed in every sense except on paper.

The point of the thread, in case you missed it, is to discuss why girl scouts don't accept boys and BSA accepts girls. Yes, if we left this particular troop which I never said we wanted to do though you suggested it several times, girls would still be a part of it. I wasn't asking you for advice or to solve any problem.

Yes, we do force organizations to accept girls in the name of equity even where it doesn't make practical sense. Yes, it would be good if boys had a space just for themselves the same way you think it's a good idea that girls have a space for themselves. Is that so hard to understand?

New poster here:
Buddy, no one knows what the hell you're complaining about. The thing you want - "a boys-only space" - has never existed in Boy Scouting. There were always moms and sisters around decades ago, participating in activities and camp outs.

If you want a boys-only space, send him to an all-boys boarding school in some rural wasteland where he never needs to cross paths with a female.

Buddy, just because your family broke the rules and brought girls to events doesn't mean that boy scouts were not a boy's organization. They might have let the girls in for equity or numbers or money but it doesn't change the fact there were not girl eagle scouts back then. So take your BS and shove it. Girls were not permitted to raise through the rants of BSA back then. I never suggested that my son live in isolation from girls as you suggest he does. It's really ignorant and perhaps why I keep coming back to respond to suggest that some space shouldn't be allowed just for boys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like PP said, the organizations are unrelated and each makes their own rules. If Girl Scouts USA wanted to allow boys they could probably just change their policies to allow it, but I don't think it aligns with their mission. Girl Scouts is all about empowering girls. I could see how boys might want to join the girls - the troops I've been involved in have had a lot of focus on entrepreneurship, learning about scouts around the world and other cultures, and handcrafting skills and I don't think that is a focus in boy scouts at all.
But anyway, they designed the program with girls in mind - they want to be a safe space for girls and allow girls to have a designed place to take on leadership roles. They cite research on the benefits of all-female environments for girls and also on how girls perform more cautiously or deferentially when boys are present.
Membership is based on identity so trans girls are welcome in girls scouts.

As a parent of a boy and a girl, I absolutely love how there are girl- only spaces for my daughter (she does Girl Scouts and girls on the run- has friends who do girls who code but she isn’t interested). I truly, truly wish there were similar boys-only spaces for my son.

As a mom of two boys, there are plenty of boys only spaces available. The whole of US society centers on whiteness, straightness, and maleness being the neutral standard and any other identity is just that, an “Other” that must be specified and defined. If you don’t understand why people defined by their otherness would want designated spaces or if you feel like the existence of those spaces is somehow denying your sons something they are entitled to, then you are part of reason those spaces are needed in the first place.

DP. That poster may be part of the reason those spaces are needed but her sons aren't. They are kids. And while girls-only spaces are good for girls, it is also true that boys-only spaces are good for boys, combined with coed spaces.

As women continue to advocate for girls- and women-only spaces, it makes no sense to me that they refuse to understand why boys- or men-only spaces might also be a good idea.

Boys have boys only spaces. There's a couple parallels to Girls on the Run for boys. BSA is mostly separated by gender at the pack, troop, or patrol level.

Except they do all of the activities with girls, including camping and camps. So no, they are not boy only spaces.

Not true at all. There are still lots and lots boys-only troops and packs. 95% of Scouting activities will be only within the confines of your troop or pack.

Sure, you may run across some girl Scouts BSA at a regional jamboree, but that's basically a once per year occurrence and no one is forcing your kid to even interact with them.

Scouts BSA can be a "boys only" space if that's what you want for your kid and your family. It still exists, you just need to seek out a troop or pack that caters to boys-only.

Search for yourself: https://beascout.scouting.org/

It even allows you to filter by "Girl Pack" or "Boy Pack" that are single gender. Within 20 miles of my DC zip code there are 44 boy-only Cub Scout packs. Knock yourself out.

PP you are responding to and I'm very familiar. My son is in BSA. But again, you're missing the point. What used to be exclusively for boys is no longer.

So? How does the policy affect your son if he's in a boys-only pack or troop? I really don't get the complaint. Your son goes to weekly pack/troop meetings + camp outs + other activities in a boys-only space.

What I'm asking is.....what's your point?

It's not a boys only space. There are girls at every event, campout, fundraiser, etc and they get Eagle Scout rank just like boys. There would be nothing wrong if boys had their own space too. It creates logistical problems and we have to make sure that none of the shenanigans go on with 15-16 year olds in the middle of the night, for example.

Change troops? My son's troop is all boys, so there are no girls at events, campouts, or fundraisers (unless they are attending as guests or volunteers).

Our leaving the troop would hardly change the fact that girls would still be there after our departure.

So to recap:

Your son is in a BSA troop. By BSA rules, this is all boys, so most of his experience is going to be a boys only environment. The troop chooses to host some events with a girls troop, though, so it's not the entirety of the experience. Your son could choose to move to a troop that doesn't do that, but that wouldn't be good enough, because the OTHER troop would still be camping near girls. Pointing out to you that this is a problem you could easily solve is the same thing as blaming your son for all of the sexism in history.

Yeah that all makes sense.

For the 15th time it's not a boys only environment. You have to be intentionally obtuse at this point. It's coed in every sense except on paper.

The point of the thread, in case you missed it, is to discuss why girl scouts don't accept boys and BSA accepts girls. Yes, if we left this particular troop which I never said we wanted to do though you suggested it several times, girls would still be a part of it. I wasn't asking you for advice or to solve any problem.

Yes, we do force organizations to accept girls in the name of equity even where it doesn't make practical sense. Yes, it would be good if boys had a space just for themselves the same way you think it's a good idea that girls have a space for themselves. Is that so hard to understand?

New poster here:
Buddy, no one knows what the hell you're complaining about. The thing you want - "a boys-only space" - has never existed in Boy Scouting. There were always moms and sisters around decades ago, participating in activities and camp outs.

If you want a boys-only space, send him to an all-boys boarding school in some rural wasteland where he never needs to cross paths with a female.

Buddy, just because your family broke the rules and brought girls to events doesn't mean that boy scouts were not a boy's organization. They might have let the girls in for equity or numbers or money but it doesn't change the fact there were not girl eagle scouts back then. So take your BS and shove it. Girls were not permitted to raise through the rants of BSA back then. I never suggested that my son live in isolation from girls as you suggest he does. It's really ignorant and perhaps why I keep coming back to respond to suggest that some space shouldn't be allowed just for boys.

*facepalm*

I am not claiming that girls "rose through the ranks" decades ago in Boy Scouts. What I am stating is that girls and moms attended every event because Boy Scouting was always a family event. No, the sister did not get to earn the merit badges. But they were allowed to attend meetings and campouts, participate in activities (eg, go to the rock climbing wall or a day hike), etc. During our Pinewood Derby growing up, we even had a Sister category so they could race each other and win trophies. This was back in the 1980s.

So this idea you have that Boy Scouts was a "boy-only space" at some point in the past is a myth. It never existed. The only thing that changed when Scouts allowed girls to formally join a few years ago was that those "sisters" could now finally earn merit badges and ranks. Which, frankly, was long overdue and well-deserved since they had been "doing the work" alongside their brothers for decades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like PP said, the organizations are unrelated and each makes their own rules. If Girl Scouts USA wanted to allow boys they could probably just change their policies to allow it, but I don't think it aligns with their mission. Girl Scouts is all about empowering girls. I could see how boys might want to join the girls - the troops I've been involved in have had a lot of focus on entrepreneurship, learning about scouts around the world and other cultures, and handcrafting skills and I don't think that is a focus in boy scouts at all.
But anyway, they designed the program with girls in mind - they want to be a safe space for girls and allow girls to have a designed place to take on leadership roles. They cite research on the benefits of all-female environments for girls and also on how girls perform more cautiously or deferentially when boys are present.
Membership is based on identity so trans girls are welcome in girls scouts.

As a parent of a boy and a girl, I absolutely love how there are girl- only spaces for my daughter (she does Girl Scouts and girls on the run- has friends who do girls who code but she isn’t interested). I truly, truly wish there were similar boys-only spaces for my son.

As a mom of two boys, there are plenty of boys only spaces available. The whole of US society centers on whiteness, straightness, and maleness being the neutral standard and any other identity is just that, an “Other” that must be specified and defined. If you don’t understand why people defined by their otherness would want designated spaces or if you feel like the existence of those spaces is somehow denying your sons something they are entitled to, then you are part of reason those spaces are needed in the first place.

DP. That poster may be part of the reason those spaces are needed but her sons aren't. They are kids. And while girls-only spaces are good for girls, it is also true that boys-only spaces are good for boys, combined with coed spaces.

As women continue to advocate for girls- and women-only spaces, it makes no sense to me that they refuse to understand why boys- or men-only spaces might also be a good idea.

Boys have boys only spaces. There's a couple parallels to Girls on the Run for boys. BSA is mostly separated by gender at the pack, troop, or patrol level.

Except they do all of the activities with girls, including camping and camps. So no, they are not boy only spaces.

Not true at all. There are still lots and lots boys-only troops and packs. 95% of Scouting activities will be only within the confines of your troop or pack.

Sure, you may run across some girl Scouts BSA at a regional jamboree, but that's basically a once per year occurrence and no one is forcing your kid to even interact with them.

Scouts BSA can be a "boys only" space if that's what you want for your kid and your family. It still exists, you just need to seek out a troop or pack that caters to boys-only.

Search for yourself: https://beascout.scouting.org/

It even allows you to filter by "Girl Pack" or "Boy Pack" that are single gender. Within 20 miles of my DC zip code there are 44 boy-only Cub Scout packs. Knock yourself out.

PP you are responding to and I'm very familiar. My son is in BSA. But again, you're missing the point. What used to be exclusively for boys is no longer.

So? How does the policy affect your son if he's in a boys-only pack or troop? I really don't get the complaint. Your son goes to weekly pack/troop meetings + camp outs + other activities in a boys-only space.

What I'm asking is.....what's your point?

It's not a boys only space. There are girls at every event, campout, fundraiser, etc and they get Eagle Scout rank just like boys. There would be nothing wrong if boys had their own space too. It creates logistical problems and we have to make sure that none of the shenanigans go on with 15-16 year olds in the middle of the night, for example.

Change troops? My son's troop is all boys, so there are no girls at events, campouts, or fundraisers (unless they are attending as guests or volunteers).

Our leaving the troop would hardly change the fact that girls would still be there after our departure.

So to recap:

Your son is in a BSA troop. By BSA rules, this is all boys, so most of his experience is going to be a boys only environment. The troop chooses to host some events with a girls troop, though, so it's not the entirety of the experience. Your son could choose to move to a troop that doesn't do that, but that wouldn't be good enough, because the OTHER troop would still be camping near girls. Pointing out to you that this is a problem you could easily solve is the same thing as blaming your son for all of the sexism in history.

Yeah that all makes sense.

For the 15th time it's not a boys only environment. You have to be intentionally obtuse at this point. It's coed in every sense except on paper.

The point of the thread, in case you missed it, is to discuss why girl scouts don't accept boys and BSA accepts girls. Yes, if we left this particular troop which I never said we wanted to do though you suggested it several times, girls would still be a part of it. I wasn't asking you for advice or to solve any problem.

Yes, we do force organizations to accept girls in the name of equity even where it doesn't make practical sense. Yes, it would be good if boys had a space just for themselves the same way you think it's a good idea that girls have a space for themselves. Is that so hard to understand?

New poster here:
Buddy, no one knows what the hell you're complaining about. The thing you want - "a boys-only space" - has never existed in Boy Scouting. There were always moms and sisters around decades ago, participating in activities and camp outs.

If you want a boys-only space, send him to an all-boys boarding school in some rural wasteland where he never needs to cross paths with a female.

Buddy, just because your family broke the rules and brought girls to events doesn't mean that boy scouts were not a boy's organization. They might have let the girls in for equity or numbers or money but it doesn't change the fact there were not girl eagle scouts back then. So take your BS and shove it. Girls were not permitted to raise through the rants of BSA back then. I never suggested that my son live in isolation from girls as you suggest he does. It's really ignorant and perhaps why I keep coming back to respond to suggest that some space shouldn't be allowed just for boys.

*facepalm*

I am not claiming that girls "rose through the ranks" decades ago in Boy Scouts. What I am stating is that girls and moms attended every event because Boy Scouting was always a family event. No, the sister did not get to earn the merit badges. But they were allowed to attend meetings and campouts, participate in activities (eg, go to the rock climbing wall or a day hike), etc. During our Pinewood Derby growing up, we even had a Sister category so they could race each other and win trophies. This was back in the 1980s.

So this idea you have that Boy Scouts was a "boy-only space" at some point in the past is a myth. It never existed. The only thing that changed when Scouts allowed girls to formally join a few years ago was that those "sisters" could now finally earn merit badges and ranks. Which, frankly, was long overdue and well-deserved since they had been "doing the work" alongside their brothers for decades.

Well I call BS on that. No, they were most certainly not doing the work along their brothers for decades and no they did not go on every camp out and every activity. Maybe in your podunk troop but that certainly wasn't the norm. So let's keep it honest, shall we?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like PP said, the organizations are unrelated and each makes their own rules. If Girl Scouts USA wanted to allow boys they could probably just change their policies to allow it, but I don't think it aligns with their mission. Girl Scouts is all about empowering girls. I could see how boys might want to join the girls - the troops I've been involved in have had a lot of focus on entrepreneurship, learning about scouts around the world and other cultures, and handcrafting skills and I don't think that is a focus in boy scouts at all.
But anyway, they designed the program with girls in mind - they want to be a safe space for girls and allow girls to have a designed place to take on leadership roles. They cite research on the benefits of all-female environments for girls and also on how girls perform more cautiously or deferentially when boys are present.
Membership is based on identity so trans girls are welcome in girls scouts.

As a parent of a boy and a girl, I absolutely love how there are girl- only spaces for my daughter (she does Girl Scouts and girls on the run- has friends who do girls who code but she isn’t interested). I truly, truly wish there were similar boys-only spaces for my son.

As a mom of two boys, there are plenty of boys only spaces available. The whole of US society centers on whiteness, straightness, and maleness being the neutral standard and any other identity is just that, an “Other” that must be specified and defined. If you don’t understand why people defined by their otherness would want designated spaces or if you feel like the existence of those spaces is somehow denying your sons something they are entitled to, then you are part of reason those spaces are needed in the first place.

DP. That poster may be part of the reason those spaces are needed but her sons aren't. They are kids. And while girls-only spaces are good for girls, it is also true that boys-only spaces are good for boys, combined with coed spaces.

As women continue to advocate for girls- and women-only spaces, it makes no sense to me that they refuse to understand why boys- or men-only spaces might also be a good idea.

Boys have boys only spaces. There's a couple parallels to Girls on the Run for boys. BSA is mostly separated by gender at the pack, troop, or patrol level.

Except they do all of the activities with girls, including camping and camps. So no, they are not boy only spaces.

Not true at all. There are still lots and lots boys-only troops and packs. 95% of Scouting activities will be only within the confines of your troop or pack.

Sure, you may run across some girl Scouts BSA at a regional jamboree, but that's basically a once per year occurrence and no one is forcing your kid to even interact with them.

Scouts BSA can be a "boys only" space if that's what you want for your kid and your family. It still exists, you just need to seek out a troop or pack that caters to boys-only.

Search for yourself: https://beascout.scouting.org/

It even allows you to filter by "Girl Pack" or "Boy Pack" that are single gender. Within 20 miles of my DC zip code there are 44 boy-only Cub Scout packs. Knock yourself out.

PP you are responding to and I'm very familiar. My son is in BSA. But again, you're missing the point. What used to be exclusively for boys is no longer.

So? How does the policy affect your son if he's in a boys-only pack or troop? I really don't get the complaint. Your son goes to weekly pack/troop meetings + camp outs + other activities in a boys-only space.

What I'm asking is.....what's your point?

It's not a boys only space. There are girls at every event, campout, fundraiser, etc and they get Eagle Scout rank just like boys. There would be nothing wrong if boys had their own space too. It creates logistical problems and we have to make sure that none of the shenanigans go on with 15-16 year olds in the middle of the night, for example.

Change troops? My son's troop is all boys, so there are no girls at events, campouts, or fundraisers (unless they are attending as guests or volunteers).

Our leaving the troop would hardly change the fact that girls would still be there after our departure.

So to recap:

Your son is in a BSA troop. By BSA rules, this is all boys, so most of his experience is going to be a boys only environment. The troop chooses to host some events with a girls troop, though, so it's not the entirety of the experience. Your son could choose to move to a troop that doesn't do that, but that wouldn't be good enough, because the OTHER troop would still be camping near girls. Pointing out to you that this is a problem you could easily solve is the same thing as blaming your son for all of the sexism in history.

Yeah that all makes sense.

For the 15th time it's not a boys only environment. You have to be intentionally obtuse at this point. It's coed in every sense except on paper.

The point of the thread, in case you missed it, is to discuss why girl scouts don't accept boys and BSA accepts girls. Yes, if we left this particular troop which I never said we wanted to do though you suggested it several times, girls would still be a part of it. I wasn't asking you for advice or to solve any problem.

Yes, we do force organizations to accept girls in the name of equity even where it doesn't make practical sense. Yes, it would be good if boys had a space just for themselves the same way you think it's a good idea that girls have a space for themselves. Is that so hard to understand?

DP but that's not what happened. No one forced BSA to accept girls in the name of equity. BSA lost a LOT of lawsuits because of their lax supervision leading to rampant child sexual abuse, and also lost lawsuits because of their sexual orientation discrimination. Because of the latter (notably not the former), Mormons decided to leave in droves. Without Mormons, BSA didn't have the numbers to pay all of their debts so they made an internal business decision to change their business model to get more participants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like PP said, the organizations are unrelated and each makes their own rules. If Girl Scouts USA wanted to allow boys they could probably just change their policies to allow it, but I don't think it aligns with their mission. Girl Scouts is all about empowering girls. I could see how boys might want to join the girls - the troops I've been involved in have had a lot of focus on entrepreneurship, learning about scouts around the world and other cultures, and handcrafting skills and I don't think that is a focus in boy scouts at all.
But anyway, they designed the program with girls in mind - they want to be a safe space for girls and allow girls to have a designed place to take on leadership roles. They cite research on the benefits of all-female environments for girls and also on how girls perform more cautiously or deferentially when boys are present.
Membership is based on identity so trans girls are welcome in girls scouts.

As a parent of a boy and a girl, I absolutely love how there are girl- only spaces for my daughter (she does Girl Scouts and girls on the run- has friends who do girls who code but she isn’t interested). I truly, truly wish there were similar boys-only spaces for my son.

As a mom of two boys, there are plenty of boys only spaces available. The whole of US society centers on whiteness, straightness, and maleness being the neutral standard and any other identity is just that, an “Other” that must be specified and defined. If you don’t understand why people defined by their otherness would want designated spaces or if you feel like the existence of those spaces is somehow denying your sons something they are entitled to, then you are part of reason those spaces are needed in the first place.

DP. That poster may be part of the reason those spaces are needed but her sons aren't. They are kids. And while girls-only spaces are good for girls, it is also true that boys-only spaces are good for boys, combined with coed spaces.

As women continue to advocate for girls- and women-only spaces, it makes no sense to me that they refuse to understand why boys- or men-only spaces might also be a good idea.

Boys have boys only spaces. There's a couple parallels to Girls on the Run for boys. BSA is mostly separated by gender at the pack, troop, or patrol level.

Except they do all of the activities with girls, including camping and camps. So no, they are not boy only spaces.

Not true at all. There are still lots and lots boys-only troops and packs. 95% of Scouting activities will be only within the confines of your troop or pack.

Sure, you may run across some girl Scouts BSA at a regional jamboree, but that's basically a once per year occurrence and no one is forcing your kid to even interact with them.

Scouts BSA can be a "boys only" space if that's what you want for your kid and your family. It still exists, you just need to seek out a troop or pack that caters to boys-only.

Search for yourself: https://beascout.scouting.org/

It even allows you to filter by "Girl Pack" or "Boy Pack" that are single gender. Within 20 miles of my DC zip code there are 44 boy-only Cub Scout packs. Knock yourself out.

PP you are responding to and I'm very familiar. My son is in BSA. But again, you're missing the point. What used to be exclusively for boys is no longer.

So? How does the policy affect your son if he's in a boys-only pack or troop? I really don't get the complaint. Your son goes to weekly pack/troop meetings + camp outs + other activities in a boys-only space.

What I'm asking is.....what's your point?

It's not a boys only space. There are girls at every event, campout, fundraiser, etc and they get Eagle Scout rank just like boys. There would be nothing wrong if boys had their own space too. It creates logistical problems and we have to make sure that none of the shenanigans go on with 15-16 year olds in the middle of the night, for example.

Change troops? My son's troop is all boys, so there are no girls at events, campouts, or fundraisers (unless they are attending as guests or volunteers).

Our leaving the troop would hardly change the fact that girls would still be there after our departure.

So to recap:

Your son is in a BSA troop. By BSA rules, this is all boys, so most of his experience is going to be a boys only environment. The troop chooses to host some events with a girls troop, though, so it's not the entirety of the experience. Your son could choose to move to a troop that doesn't do that, but that wouldn't be good enough, because the OTHER troop would still be camping near girls. Pointing out to you that this is a problem you could easily solve is the same thing as blaming your son for all of the sexism in history.

Yeah that all makes sense.

For the 15th time it's not a boys only environment. You have to be intentionally obtuse at this point. It's coed in every sense except on paper.

The point of the thread, in case you missed it, is to discuss why girl scouts don't accept boys and BSA accepts girls. Yes, if we left this particular troop which I never said we wanted to do though you suggested it several times, girls would still be a part of it. I wasn't asking you for advice or to solve any problem.

Yes, we do force organizations to accept girls in the name of equity even where it doesn't make practical sense. Yes, it would be good if boys had a space just for themselves the same way you think it's a good idea that girls have a space for themselves. Is that so hard to understand?

DP but that's not what happened. No one forced BSA to accept girls in the name of equity. BSA lost a LOT of lawsuits because of their lax supervision leading to rampant child sexual abuse, and also lost lawsuits because of their sexual orientation discrimination. Because of the latter (notably not the former), Mormons decided to leave in droves. Without Mormons, BSA didn't have the numbers to pay all of their debts so they made an internal business decision to change their business model to get more participants.

Fair enough. It was a business decision. But I failt to see how an organization that didn't protect boys from predators is going to do any better when they have girls there too.

[Anonymous]

Girl Dcouts doesn't have the fiscal and PR nightmare from covering up years of child SA like BSA does. BSS allows girls because hardly anyone wants to join their creepy club. Girls Scouts can just do it's own thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like PP said, the organizations are unrelated and each makes their own rules. If Girl Scouts USA wanted to allow boys they could probably just change their policies to allow it, but I don't think it aligns with their mission. Girl Scouts is all about empowering girls. I could see how boys might want to join the girls - the troops I've been involved in have had a lot of focus on entrepreneurship, learning about scouts around the world and other cultures, and handcrafting skills and I don't think that is a focus in boy scouts at all.
But anyway, they designed the program with girls in mind - they want to be a safe space for girls and allow girls to have a designed place to take on leadership roles. They cite research on the benefits of all-female environments for girls and also on how girls perform more cautiously or deferentially when boys are present.
Membership is based on identity so trans girls are welcome in girls scouts.

As a parent of a boy and a girl, I absolutely love how there are girl- only spaces for my daughter (she does Girl Scouts and girls on the run- has friends who do girls who code but she isn’t interested). I truly, truly wish there were similar boys-only spaces for my son.

As a mom of two boys, there are plenty of boys only spaces available. The whole of US society centers on whiteness, straightness, and maleness being the neutral standard and any other identity is just that, an “Other” that must be specified and defined. If you don’t understand why people defined by their otherness would want designated spaces or if you feel like the existence of those spaces is somehow denying your sons something they are entitled to, then you are part of reason those spaces are needed in the first place.

DP. That poster may be part of the reason those spaces are needed but her sons aren't. They are kids. And while girls-only spaces are good for girls, it is also true that boys-only spaces are good for boys, combined with coed spaces.

As women continue to advocate for girls- and women-only spaces, it makes no sense to me that they refuse to understand why boys- or men-only spaces might also be a good idea.

Boys have boys only spaces. There's a couple parallels to Girls on the Run for boys. BSA is mostly separated by gender at the pack, troop, or patrol level.

Except they do all of the activities with girls, including camping and camps. So no, they are not boy only spaces.

Not true at all. There are still lots and lots boys-only troops and packs. 95% of Scouting activities will be only within the confines of your troop or pack.

Sure, you may run across some girl Scouts BSA at a regional jamboree, but that's basically a once per year occurrence and no one is forcing your kid to even interact with them.

Scouts BSA can be a "boys only" space if that's what you want for your kid and your family. It still exists, you just need to seek out a troop or pack that caters to boys-only.

Search for yourself: https://beascout.scouting.org/

It even allows you to filter by "Girl Pack" or "Boy Pack" that are single gender. Within 20 miles of my DC zip code there are 44 boy-only Cub Scout packs. Knock yourself out.

PP you are responding to and I'm very familiar. My son is in BSA. But again, you're missing the point. What used to be exclusively for boys is no longer.

So? How does the policy affect your son if he's in a boys-only pack or troop? I really don't get the complaint. Your son goes to weekly pack/troop meetings + camp outs + other activities in a boys-only space.

What I'm asking is.....what's your point?

It's not a boys only space. There are girls at every event, campout, fundraiser, etc and they get Eagle Scout rank just like boys. There would be nothing wrong if boys had their own space too. It creates logistical problems and we have to make sure that none of the shenanigans go on with 15-16 year olds in the middle of the night, for example.

Change troops? My son's troop is all boys, so there are no girls at events, campouts, or fundraisers (unless they are attending as guests or volunteers).

Our leaving the troop would hardly change the fact that girls would still be there after our departure.

So to recap:

Your son is in a BSA troop. By BSA rules, this is all boys, so most of his experience is going to be a boys only environment. The troop chooses to host some events with a girls troop, though, so it's not the entirety of the experience. Your son could choose to move to a troop that doesn't do that, but that wouldn't be good enough, because the OTHER troop would still be camping near girls. Pointing out to you that this is a problem you could easily solve is the same thing as blaming your son for all of the sexism in history.

Yeah that all makes sense.

For the 15th time it's not a boys only environment. You have to be intentionally obtuse at this point. It's coed in every sense except on paper.

The point of the thread, in case you missed it, is to discuss why girl scouts don't accept boys and BSA accepts girls. Yes, if we left this particular troop which I never said we wanted to do though you suggested it several times, girls would still be a part of it. I wasn't asking you for advice or to solve any problem.

Yes, we do force organizations to accept girls in the name of equity even where it doesn't make practical sense. Yes, it would be good if boys had a space just for themselves the same way you think it's a good idea that girls have a space for themselves. Is that so hard to understand?

DP but that's not what happened. No one forced BSA to accept girls in the name of equity. BSA lost a LOT of lawsuits because of their lax supervision leading to rampant child sexual abuse, and also lost lawsuits because of their sexual orientation discrimination. Because of the latter (notably not the former), Mormons decided to leave in droves. Without Mormons, BSA didn't have the numbers to pay all of their debts so they made an internal business decision to change their business model to get more participants.

Fair enough. It was a business decision. But I failt to see how an organization that didn't protect boys from predators is going to do any better when they have girls there too.

I'm not affiliated with Scouts but my understanding is that they've overhauled their rules to be much closer to GSUSA's rules, which necessitate a lot of background checks, training, and checks on the ability of an adult to be alone one-on-one with a child not their own.

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Anonymous wrote:Like PP said, the organizations are unrelated and each makes their own rules. If Girl Scouts USA wanted to allow boys they could probably just change their policies to allow it, but I don't think it aligns with their mission. Girl Scouts is all about empowering girls. I could see how boys might want to join the girls - the troops I've been involved in have had a lot of focus on entrepreneurship, learning about scouts around the world and other cultures, and handcrafting skills and I don't think that is a focus in boy scouts at all.
But anyway, they designed the program with girls in mind - they want to be a safe space for girls and allow girls to have a designed place to take on leadership roles. They cite research on the benefits of all-female environments for girls and also on how girls perform more cautiously or deferentially when boys are present.
Membership is based on identity so trans girls are welcome in girls scouts.

As a parent of a boy and a girl, I absolutely love how there are girl- only spaces for my daughter (she does Girl Scouts and girls on the run- has friends who do girls who code but she isn’t interested). I truly, truly wish there were similar boys-only spaces for my son.

As a mom of two boys, there are plenty of boys only spaces available. The whole of US society centers on whiteness, straightness, and maleness being the neutral standard and any other identity is just that, an “Other” that must be specified and defined. If you don’t understand why people defined by their otherness would want designated spaces or if you feel like the existence of those spaces is somehow denying your sons something they are entitled to, then you are part of reason those spaces are needed in the first place.

DP. That poster may be part of the reason those spaces are needed but her sons aren't. They are kids. And while girls-only spaces are good for girls, it is also true that boys-only spaces are good for boys, combined with coed spaces.

As women continue to advocate for girls- and women-only spaces, it makes no sense to me that they refuse to understand why boys- or men-only spaces might also be a good idea.

Boys have boys only spaces. There's a couple parallels to Girls on the Run for boys. BSA is mostly separated by gender at the pack, troop, or patrol level.

Except they do all of the activities with girls, including camping and camps. So no, they are not boy only spaces.

Not true at all. There are still lots and lots boys-only troops and packs. 95% of Scouting activities will be only within the confines of your troop or pack.

Sure, you may run across some girl Scouts BSA at a regional jamboree, but that's basically a once per year occurrence and no one is forcing your kid to even interact with them.

Scouts BSA can be a "boys only" space if that's what you want for your kid and your family. It still exists, you just need to seek out a troop or pack that caters to boys-only.

Search for yourself: https://beascout.scouting.org/

It even allows you to filter by "Girl Pack" or "Boy Pack" that are single gender. Within 20 miles of my DC zip code there are 44 boy-only Cub Scout packs. Knock yourself out.

PP you are responding to and I'm very familiar. My son is in BSA. But again, you're missing the point. What used to be exclusively for boys is no longer.

So? How does the policy affect your son if he's in a boys-only pack or troop? I really don't get the complaint. Your son goes to weekly pack/troop meetings + camp outs + other activities in a boys-only space.

What I'm asking is.....what's your point?

It's not a boys only space. There are girls at every event, campout, fundraiser, etc and they get Eagle Scout rank just like boys. There would be nothing wrong if boys had their own space too. It creates logistical problems and we have to make sure that none of the shenanigans go on with 15-16 year olds in the middle of the night, for example.

Change troops? My son's troop is all boys, so there are no girls at events, campouts, or fundraisers (unless they are attending as guests or volunteers).

Our leaving the troop would hardly change the fact that girls would still be there after our departure.

So to recap:

Your son is in a BSA troop. By BSA rules, this is all boys, so most of his experience is going to be a boys only environment. The troop chooses to host some events with a girls troop, though, so it's not the entirety of the experience. Your son could choose to move to a troop that doesn't do that, but that wouldn't be good enough, because the OTHER troop would still be camping near girls. Pointing out to you that this is a problem you could easily solve is the same thing as blaming your son for all of the sexism in history.

Yeah that all makes sense.

For the 15th time it's not a boys only environment. You have to be intentionally obtuse at this point. It's coed in every sense except on paper.

The point of the thread, in case you missed it, is to discuss why girl scouts don't accept boys and BSA accepts girls. Yes, if we left this particular troop which I never said we wanted to do though you suggested it several times, girls would still be a part of it. I wasn't asking you for advice or to solve any problem.

Yes, we do force organizations to accept girls in the name of equity even where it doesn't make practical sense. Yes, it would be good if boys had a space just for themselves the same way you think it's a good idea that girls have a space for themselves. Is that so hard to understand?

DP but that's not what happened. No one forced BSA to accept girls in the name of equity. BSA lost a LOT of lawsuits because of their lax supervision leading to rampant child sexual abuse, and also lost lawsuits because of their sexual orientation discrimination. Because of the latter (notably not the former), Mormons decided to leave in droves. Without Mormons, BSA didn't have the numbers to pay all of their debts so they made an internal business decision to change their business model to get more participants.

Something like 40% of the abuse allegations in Boy Scouts stemmed from Mormon troops. The Mormon Church tried to pay BSA $250M to take the fall for abuse in Mormon troops, but also tried to include abuse by the same church officials in non-Scout settings and to non-Scout victims. The bankruptcy judge threw out that proposed liability shield for the Mormon Church: https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/boy-scouts-walk-back-250-mln-abuse-settlement-with-mormon-church-2022-08-15/

While the Mormons made a big deal about leaving BSA because of the acceptance of gay Scouts and families, the real reason was because of the Church's knowledge and liability of Scouting-related abuse.

There's a really good discussion on Reddit about this among former Mormon Boy Scouts:
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/yk73oc/why_did_the_lds_church_end_partnership_with/