Supplements, vitamins routine for menopausal women

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FFS menopause is not a disease any more than puberty is. A lot of the resources people spend on unproven woo would be better directed to education and destigmatization. Saying that everyone with menopause is hormone deficient is like saying prepubertal children are hormone deficient. Menopause is a natural lifecycle transition for 100% of women on earth.

Tell me you aren't in menopause without telling me you aren't in menopause.

DP. Don't be so touchy. That PP is correct. Menopause is what our bodies are supposed to do. If you choose to take estrogen, that's a choice but it's not a "natural" therapy.

In the long ago past, women didn’t live long after menopause. Now we’re not only living a lot longer, but expected to function at a high level at work and as caretakers in many cases. I need HRT to help me sleep and keep my energy up. I wish that wasn’t the case, but it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Outside Vitamin D, there is not a lot of data supporting supplements. They are not regulated. You have no idea what you are actually getting. Eat a well-balanced diet with lots of fruits and vegetables.

OP here.
I should be more specific here. I am not looking for HRT. I am not suffering from hot flashes and my doctor didn’t recommend it unless I really need it.
As far as regulating supplements, it’s true, but I’ve learned that turmeric is marvelous for my early arthritis. Now I am looking at collagen peptides for my aging joins. Most traditionally trained doctors here are not big on supplements, but you look at other countries it’s different.
I know that there are providers out there that are more knowledgeable in complementary medicine.
Help me to find them.
Thank you.🙏

I respect that you want to go a non-hormonal route, but hot flashes are only one of the symptoms that women experience in menopause. Others can be sleep and mood problems, anxiety, joint pain, dry skin, more frequent UTIs and vaginal dryness, decreased libido and sexual sensation, difficulty coming to orgasm, disappearing labia (really!!) thinning hair, bone loss, increasing cholesterol. Many of those are really well managed with either localized vaginal estrogen or systemic estrogen, or progesterone or testosterone, or all three.

Whether you “really need it” regarding HRT is your decision to make with your doctor’s advice about risks and benefits. Your doctor doesn’t get to tell you whether your symptoms feel bad enough to you, or not.

It makes me so mad that doctors are so patronizing to women about real symptoms they’re experiencing.

Post menopausal here. Don’t have any of the above symptoms and feel great. Don’t need hrt.

That’s awesome for you - feeling good as long as you can is the endgame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FFS menopause is not a disease any more than puberty is. A lot of the resources people spend on unproven woo would be better directed to education and destigmatization. Saying that everyone with menopause is hormone deficient is like saying prepubertal children are hormone deficient. Menopause is a natural lifecycle transition for 100% of women on earth.

Tell me you aren't in menopause without telling me you aren't in menopause.

DP. Don't be so touchy. That PP is correct. Menopause is what our bodies are supposed to do. If you choose to take estrogen, that's a choice but it's not a "natural" therapy.

DP. The first PP's post is very aggressive starting with "FFS". Basically dismissing the women on this thread as complainers. Sounds like a lot of the dismissive doctors out there. So, yeah, people are touchy and FFS they get to be. Menopause has been understudied and there simply isn't enough good support for women when --YES this happens to ALL women--. So WHY don't we get more support from our healthcare system?

I don't know what you are on about with your "natural" nonsense, but the idea that all women, with the variety and range of severity in symptoms different women can have, should just struggle though it without any intervention if intervention is available is...stupid. FFS indeed.

That pp didn’t say women don’t deserve treatment and should soldier through it. She called out the pathologizing of menopause as if it is a disease. It’s isn’t, unless it was prematurely induced by ovarian failure/removal or secondary to something like PCOS. The point is that telling people they are “hormone deficient” is wrong, as is selling them a lot of unproven alternative therapies that aren’t evidence based.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FFS menopause is not a disease any more than puberty is. A lot of the resources people spend on unproven woo would be better directed to education and destigmatization. Saying that everyone with menopause is hormone deficient is like saying prepubertal children are hormone deficient. Menopause is a natural lifecycle transition for 100% of women on earth.

Not a single person has said that menopause is a disease. It is not. It may be a natural, inevitable, process but that doesn't mean it's effects should not be mitigated/addressed.

I'm sorry that you know so little about female reproductive health/biology that you think menopuase is not a hormone deficiency. It, absolutely, is. It is the reduction estrogen (a hormone) that causes the cessation of menses.

You also don't understand analogies. Children cannot have the same hormone deficiency that menopausal women have becase they never had those hormones to begin with. You cannot be deficient in something that you are not expected to have and that your body does not need in order to function as it should.

Menopause is caused by the loss of ovarian follicular function and a [i]decline in circulating blood oestrogen levels.

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/menopause#:~:text=Most%20women%20experience%20menopause%20between,changes%20in%20the%20menstrual%20cycle.

This logic does not track. It is NORMAL, not “hormone deficient,” to have lower levels of reproductive hormones after you have passed reproductive age. By your logic women have to take supplemental hormones from menopause until death to be considered “normal.” That’s such a gonzo notion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FFS menopause is not a disease any more than puberty is. A lot of the resources people spend on unproven woo would be better directed to education and destigmatization. Saying that everyone with menopause is hormone deficient is like saying prepubertal children are hormone deficient. Menopause is a natural lifecycle transition for 100% of women on earth.

The problem is that menopause comes with symptoms for a lot of women. Yes it’s natural, but many women don’t feel well during peri and after, for many years or for the rest of their lives. For those women, there are great treatments for a lot of those bothersome symptoms. If you feel fine during menopause, awesome, keep doing what you’re doing. If you have symptoms, use the treatments if you like!

Not a single person has said that menopause is a disease. It is not. It may be a natural, inevitable, process but that doesn't mean it's effects should not be mitigated/addressed.

I'm sorry that you know so little about female reproductive health/biology that you think menopuase is not a hormone deficiency. It, absolutely, is. It is the reduction estrogen (a hormone) that causes the cessation of menses.

You also don't understand analogies. Children cannot have the same hormone deficiency that menopausal women have becase they never had those hormones to begin with. You cannot be deficient in something that you are not expected to have and that your body does not need in order to function as it should.

Menopause is caused by the loss of ovarian follicular function and a [i]decline in circulating blood oestrogen levels.

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/menopause#:~:text=Most%20women%20experience%20menopause%20between,changes%20in%20the%20menstrual%20cycle.

This logic does not track. It is NORMAL, not “hormone deficient,” to have lower levels of reproductive hormones after you have passed reproductive age. By your logic women have to take supplemental hormones from menopause until death to be considered “normal.” That’s such a gonzo notion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FFS menopause is not a disease any more than puberty is. A lot of the resources people spend on unproven woo would be better directed to education and destigmatization. Saying that everyone with menopause is hormone deficient is like saying prepubertal children are hormone deficient. Menopause is a natural lifecycle transition for 100% of women on earth.

Tell me you aren't in menopause without telling me you aren't in menopause.

DP. Don't be so touchy. That PP is correct. Menopause is what our bodies are supposed to do. If you choose to take estrogen, that's a choice but it's not a "natural" therapy.

DP. The first PP's post is very aggressive starting with "FFS". Basically dismissing the women on this thread as complainers. Sounds like a lot of the dismissive doctors out there. So, yeah, people are touchy and FFS they get to be. Menopause has been understudied and there simply isn't enough good support for women when --YES this happens to ALL women--. So WHY don't we get more support from our healthcare system?

I don't know what you are on about with your "natural" nonsense, but the idea that all women, with the variety and range of severity in symptoms different women can have, should just struggle though it without any intervention if intervention is available is...stupid. FFS indeed.

That pp didn’t say women don’t deserve treatment and should soldier through it. She called out the pathologizing of menopause as if it is a disease. It’s isn’t, unless it was prematurely induced by ovarian failure/removal or secondary to something like PCOS. The point is that telling people they are “hormone deficient” is wrong, as is selling them a lot of unproven alternative therapies that aren’t evidence based.

Are you a man? We all agree menopause is inevitable if a woman lives long enough. It is not a disease. Menopause occurs when the ovaries do not produce estrogen in levels sufficient to sustain a menstrual cycle. There isn't enough estrogen - meaning there is an estrogen deficiency aka a hormone deficiency. As a PP noted, menopause is just one symptom of estrogen deficiency. In addition to regulating the menstrual cycle, estrogen has an incredible impact on:

- the reproductive tract (hello vaginal dryness and thinning of the vaginal walls)
- the urinary tract
- the heart and blood vessels (estrogen relaxes the arteries and promotes good cholesterol)
- bones (osteoporosis, anyone?)
- breasts
- skin (anyone else experiencing crepey skin?)
- hair (bless you, minoxidil)
- metabolism (can you still gain weight even if your calories in/out haven't changed)
- muscles (loss of skeletal muscle mass decreased quality of the remaining skeletal muscle)
- the brain (where to begin? Temperature regulation, moodiness, anxiety, depression, decreased gray matter, reduced cognition, etc.)
- quality of sleep

I'm thinking you must be a man. There's no way a woman could be so ignorant of the impact of hormone fluctuations (PMS, pre/post natal, etc.) - including not enough hormones = hormone deficiency. If you're a woman, you've got some learning to do.

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/22673-hormonal-imbalance

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FFS menopause is not a disease any more than puberty is. A lot of the resources people spend on unproven woo would be better directed to education and destigmatization. Saying that everyone with menopause is hormone deficient is like saying prepubertal children are hormone deficient. Menopause is a natural lifecycle transition for 100% of women on earth.

Not a single person has said that menopause is a disease. It is not. It may be a natural, inevitable, process but that doesn't mean it's effects should not be mitigated/addressed.

I'm sorry that you know so little about female reproductive health/biology that you think menopuase is not a hormone deficiency. It, absolutely, is. It is the reduction estrogen (a hormone) that causes the cessation of menses.

You also don't understand analogies. Children cannot have the same hormone deficiency that menopausal women have becase they never had those hormones to begin with. You cannot be deficient in something that you are not expected to have and that your body does not need in order to function as it should.

Menopause is caused by the loss of ovarian follicular function and a [i]decline in circulating blood oestrogen levels.

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/menopause#:~:text=Most%20women%20experience%20menopause%20between,changes%20in%20the%20menstrual%20cycle.

This logic does not track. It is NORMAL, not “hormone deficient,” to have lower levels of reproductive hormones after you have passed reproductive age. By your logic women have to take supplemental hormones from menopause until death to be considered “normal.” That’s such a gonzo notion.

18:44 here. I don't know why you struggle to understand that just because something is 'deficient' doesn't mean 'abnormal'. It simply means 'not enough'. As I noted earlier, estrogen doesn't just have a role in reproductive health. The 'normal' loss of estrogen due to aging has a huge impact on our bodies other than the cessation of menstration.

I don't care whether women take HRT or not. I don't. I take supplements but am considering HRT to mitigate the impact of estrogen deficiency. I had to start taking an SSRI recently because of PTSD from childhood DV. I hadn't had an episode in 30 years yet started to, again, have nightmares and became hypervigilent. I also had to start blood pressure and cholesterol medications even though I am of a healthy weight, exercise regularly and eat well. I started minoxidil for hair loss about a year ago. I also take supplements but still have joint pain, some bone loss and have to use vaginal estrogen because it's so dry down there ALL the time it's uncomfortable (Astroglide and Replens hardly make a difference). Is taking all of those medications because of my estrogen deficiency better than HRT? I'm starting to think it's not. But YMMV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FFS menopause is not a disease any more than puberty is. A lot of the resources people spend on unproven woo would be better directed to education and destigmatization. Saying that everyone with menopause is hormone deficient is like saying prepubertal children are hormone deficient. Menopause is a natural lifecycle transition for 100% of women on earth.

Not a single person has said that menopause is a disease. It is not. It may be a natural, inevitable, process but that doesn't mean it's effects should not be mitigated/addressed.

I'm sorry that you know so little about female reproductive health/biology that you think menopuase is not a hormone deficiency. It, absolutely, is. It is the reduction estrogen (a hormone) that causes the cessation of menses.

You also don't understand analogies. Children cannot have the same hormone deficiency that menopausal women have becase they never had those hormones to begin with. You cannot be deficient in something that you are not expected to have and that your body does not need in order to function as it should.

Menopause is caused by the loss of ovarian follicular function and a [i]decline in circulating blood oestrogen levels.

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/menopause#:~:text=Most%20women%20experience%20menopause%20between,changes%20in%20the%20menstrual%20cycle.

This logic does not track. It is NORMAL, not “hormone deficient,” to have lower levels of reproductive hormones after you have passed reproductive age. By your logic women have to take supplemental hormones from menopause until death to be considered “normal.” That’s such a gonzo notion.

18:44 here. I don't know why you struggle to understand that just because something is 'deficient' doesn't mean 'abnormal'. It simply means 'not enough'. As I noted earlier, estrogen doesn't just have a role in reproductive health. The 'normal' loss of estrogen due to aging has a huge impact on our bodies other than the cessation of menstration.

I don't care whether women take HRT or not. I don't. I take supplements but am considering HRT to mitigate the impact of estrogen deficiency. I had to start taking an SSRI recently because of PTSD from childhood DV. I hadn't had an episode in 30 years yet started to, again, have nightmares and became hypervigilent. I also had to start blood pressure and cholesterol medications even though I am of a healthy weight, exercise regularly and eat well. I started minoxidil for hair loss about a year ago. I also take supplements but still have joint pain, some bone loss and have to use vaginal estrogen because it's so dry down there ALL the time it's uncomfortable (Astroglide and Replens hardly make a difference). Is taking all of those medications because of my estrogen deficiency better than HRT? I'm starting to think it's not. But YMMV.

Forgot to mention that the supplements were recommended by my menopause.org certified OB/GYN. She doesn't sell them and some may need more studies but I don't intend to suffer just because it's 'normal'.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FFS menopause is not a disease any more than puberty is. A lot of the resources people spend on unproven woo would be better directed to education and destigmatization. Saying that everyone with menopause is hormone deficient is like saying prepubertal children are hormone deficient. Menopause is a natural lifecycle transition for 100% of women on earth.

Not a single person has said that menopause is a disease. It is not. It may be a natural, inevitable, process but that doesn't mean it's effects should not be mitigated/addressed.

I'm sorry that you know so little about female reproductive health/biology that you think menopuase is not a hormone deficiency. It, absolutely, is. It is the reduction estrogen (a hormone) that causes the cessation of menses.

You also don't understand analogies. Children cannot have the same hormone deficiency that menopausal women have becase they never had those hormones to begin with. You cannot be deficient in something that you are not expected to have and that your body does not need in order to function as it should.

Menopause is caused by the loss of ovarian follicular function and a [i]decline in circulating blood oestrogen levels.

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/menopause#:~:text=Most%20women%20experience%20menopause%20between,changes%20in%20the%20menstrual%20cycle.

This logic does not track. It is NORMAL, not “hormone deficient,” to have lower levels of reproductive hormones after you have passed reproductive age. By your logic women have to take supplemental hormones from menopause until death to be considered “normal.” That’s such a gonzo notion.

18:44 here. I don't know why you struggle to understand that just because something is 'deficient' doesn't mean 'abnormal'. It simply means 'not enough'. As I noted earlier, estrogen doesn't just have a role in reproductive health. The 'normal' loss of estrogen due to aging has a huge impact on our bodies other than the cessation of menstration.

I don't care whether women take HRT or not. I don't. I take supplements but am considering HRT to mitigate the impact of estrogen deficiency. I had to start taking an SSRI recently because of PTSD from childhood DV. I hadn't had an episode in 30 years yet started to, again, have nightmares and became hypervigilent. I also had to start blood pressure and cholesterol medications even though I am of a healthy weight, exercise regularly and eat well. I started minoxidil for hair loss about a year ago. I also take supplements but still have joint pain, some bone loss and have to use vaginal estrogen because it's so dry down there ALL the time it's uncomfortable (Astroglide and Replens hardly make a difference). Is taking all of those medications because of my estrogen deficiency better than HRT? I'm starting to think it's not. But YMMV.

DP. No, you still have it wrong. After reproductive age, women are supposed to have lower amounts of estrogen. It's not a stste of estrogen deficiency, it's a state of lower estrogen.

Adding estrogen or other hormones is not indicated for a state of lower estrogen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FFS menopause is not a disease any more than puberty is. A lot of the resources people spend on unproven woo would be better directed to education and destigmatization. Saying that everyone with menopause is hormone deficient is like saying prepubertal children are hormone deficient. Menopause is a natural lifecycle transition for 100% of women on earth.

Not a single person has said that menopause is a disease. It is not. It may be a natural, inevitable, process but that doesn't mean it's effects should not be mitigated/addressed.

I'm sorry that you know so little about female reproductive health/biology that you think menopuase is not a hormone deficiency. It, absolutely, is. It is the reduction estrogen (a hormone) that causes the cessation of menses.

You also don't understand analogies. Children cannot have the same hormone deficiency that menopausal women have becase they never had those hormones to begin with. You cannot be deficient in something that you are not expected to have and that your body does not need in order to function as it should.

Menopause is caused by the loss of ovarian follicular function and a [i]decline in circulating blood oestrogen levels.

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/menopause#:~:text=Most%20women%20experience%20menopause%20between,changes%20in%20the%20menstrual%20cycle.

This logic does not track. It is NORMAL, not “hormone deficient,” to have lower levels of reproductive hormones after you have passed reproductive age. By your logic women have to take supplemental hormones from menopause until death to be considered “normal.” That’s such a gonzo notion.

18:44 here. I don't know why you struggle to understand that just because something is 'deficient' doesn't mean 'abnormal'. It simply means 'not enough'. As I noted earlier, estrogen doesn't just have a role in reproductive health. The 'normal' loss of estrogen due to aging has a huge impact on our bodies other than the cessation of menstration.

I don't care whether women take HRT or not. I don't. I take supplements but am considering HRT to mitigate the impact of estrogen deficiency. I had to start taking an SSRI recently because of PTSD from childhood DV. I hadn't had an episode in 30 years yet started to, again, have nightmares and became hypervigilent. I also had to start blood pressure and cholesterol medications even though I am of a healthy weight, exercise regularly and eat well. I started minoxidil for hair loss about a year ago. I also take supplements but still have joint pain, some bone loss and have to use vaginal estrogen because it's so dry down there ALL the time it's uncomfortable (Astroglide and Replens hardly make a difference). Is taking all of those medications because of my estrogen deficiency better than HRT? I'm starting to think it's not. But YMMV.

DP. No, you still have it wrong. After reproductive age, women are supposed to have lower amounts of estrogen. It's not a stste of estrogen deficiency, it's a state of lower estrogen.

Adding estrogen or other hormones is not indicated for a state of lower estrogen.

DP. If a woman is experiencing adverse effects of her 'state of lower estrogen, what is indicated?

[Anonymous]

To the “menopause is a hormone deficiency” poster, I think you are the one struggling to understand. This is very similar to saying wrinkles are a collagen deficiency. No, they are a result of the normal aging process.

Loss of estrogen over time has plenty of undesirable effects but it also has some benefits like decreasing your risk of certain cancers and stroke, and adding fat around your middle that can mitigate the risk of hip fractures. You can give people supplemental hormones but don’t pretend they are without risk, because your body was not designed to have pre-menopausal levels of reproductive hormones indefinitely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the “menopause is a hormone deficiency” poster, I think you are the one struggling to understand. This is very similar to saying wrinkles are a collagen deficiency. No, they are a result of the normal aging process.

Loss of estrogen over time has plenty of undesirable effects but it also has some benefits like decreasing your risk of certain cancers and stroke, and adding fat around your middle that can mitigate the risk of hip fractures. You can give people supplemental hormones but don’t pretend they are without risk, because your body was not designed to have pre-menopausal levels of reproductive hormones indefinitely.

Citation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the “menopause is a hormone deficiency” poster, I think you are the one struggling to understand. This is very similar to saying wrinkles are a collagen deficiency. No, they are a result of the normal aging process.

Loss of estrogen over time has plenty of undesirable effects but it also has some benefits like decreasing your risk of certain cancers and stroke, and adding fat around your middle that can mitigate the risk of hip fractures. You can give people supplemental hormones but don’t pretend they are without risk, because your body was not designed to have pre-menopausal levels of reproductive hormones indefinitely.

DP. You seem to have a deficiency of critical thinking. You are conflating 'deficiency' with abnormality and disease. You don't seem to know the definition of 'deficiency'. And, when you lack sufficient (or are deficient in) collagen, you get wrinkles.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/deficiency
1: the quality or state of being defective or of lacking some necessary quality or element : the quality or state of being deficient : INADEQUACY
suffers from a deficiency of critical thinking
2: an amount that is lacking or inadequate : SHORTAGE
such as a shortage of substances necessary to health - a vitamin C deficiency / hormone deficiencies

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Outside Vitamin D, there is not a lot of data supporting supplements. They are not regulated. You have no idea what you are actually getting. Eat a well-balanced diet with lots of fruits and vegetables.

lol you have no idea what you are talking about. Like, pharma is “well regulated?” get out of here.

Are you crazy? Yes, pharma is extremely tightly regulated. They can’t even do a clinical trial in the USA without scientific give regulatory review and approval let alone market anything.

NP. Clearly you didn’t read Empire of Pain. It’s been pay to play for awhile, in many cases.

Re supplements: For 3 years I had hpv that wouldn’t clear, even after having leep. I started taking lysine for a year, and then magically the cells were cleared. So, we can say that supplements don’t work, or we can try them and re-test or see if symptoms improve. Or, we can say my experience was purely a placebo.

I agree with so many of you who are frustrated with care in perimenopause.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FFS menopause is not a disease any more than puberty is. A lot of the resources people spend on unproven woo would be better directed to education and destigmatization. Saying that everyone with menopause is hormone deficient is like saying prepubertal children are hormone deficient. Menopause is a natural lifecycle transition for 100% of women on earth.

Tell me you aren't in menopause without telling me you aren't in menopause.

Actually I have plenty of menopause symptoms. That doesn’t make it a disease. I am not “hormone deficient.” I am aging normally.

Would I accept treatment for sexual symptoms, hair loss, insomnia, mood swings? You bet! But not worth risking my overall health and I don’t accept that women can somehow stay 35 indefinitely.

You don’t want to protect your heart? Heart disease kills more women than breast cancer. One fall will often kill a women, who goes into serious decline. What about dementia?

Lots of research coming out that HRT protects the heart, our brains, and our bones.

Also, saying that women want to stay 35 for choices you personally don’t agree with is sexist.