Mom Cliques. I had no idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

NP. Why are you trying to hard to get your feelings hurt? That PP never said that it was NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out of excluded, you did. MOST OF THE TIME you shouldn't have hurt feelings because people you know however tangentially are doing something that doesn't include you. Of course it's ok to be hurt if your best friend planned a trip for her 50th birthday with 10 other women and didn't invite you. But OP's situation? Where she knew a small amount of the people at the event and then decided to send a snarky text acting like it was an every Friday kind of invite-only activity from which she had been purposefully excluded? That's ridiculous.

It's never useful to tell someone they "shouldn't" feel some way. You can tell OP that those women almost certainly didn't exclude her intentionally, and tell her the expectation of inclusion isn't really reasonable since of course not everyone can be invited to everything. And I'd agree.

But if OP feels left out, that's just how she feels. It doesn't matter if you think it's ridiculous or not. If that's how she feels, it likely reflects the broader context of how she fits into this school community and her neighborhood, and as others have noted, might be a result of her not having many friends. She also just might kind of long for a group of women to go out with in that way, and be sad to learn that some of her friends have a group like that... but she's not part of it.

I think it's strange how many posters (or a few posters, posting repeatedly) felt like OP had done something wrong by just feeling awkward or sad about this situation. She shouldn't have sent the bitter text message, but there's nothing wrong with just feeling hurt. It is what it is. Maybe it's a wake up call to OP to put herself out their more or cultivate her friendships more, so that seeing other women having fun together doesn't trigger her in this way.

Thank you for trying. At this point everyone’s so ground in they aren’t able to receive one another’s message. What you’re saying makes complete sense to me for what it’s worth

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

NP. Why are you trying to hard to get your feelings hurt? That PP never said that it was NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out of excluded, you did. MOST OF THE TIME you shouldn't have hurt feelings because people you know however tangentially are doing something that doesn't include you. Of course it's ok to be hurt if your best friend planned a trip for her 50th birthday with 10 other women and didn't invite you. But OP's situation? Where she knew a small amount of the people at the event and then decided to send a snarky text acting like it was an every Friday kind of invite-only activity from which she had been purposefully excluded? That's ridiculous.

It's never useful to tell someone they "shouldn't" feel some way. You can tell OP that those women almost certainly didn't exclude her intentionally, and tell her the expectation of inclusion isn't really reasonable since of course not everyone can be invited to everything. And I'd agree.

But if OP feels left out, that's just how she feels. It doesn't matter if you think it's ridiculous or not. If that's how she feels, it likely reflects the broader context of how she fits into this school community and her neighborhood, and as others have noted, might be a result of her not having many friends. She also just might kind of long for a group of women to go out with in that way, and be sad to learn that some of her friends have a group like that... but she's not part of it.

I think it's strange how many posters (or a few posters, posting repeatedly) felt like OP had done something wrong by just feeling awkward or sad about this situation. She shouldn't have sent the bitter text message, but there's nothing wrong with just feeling hurt. It is what it is. Maybe it's a wake up call to OP to put herself out their more or cultivate her friendships more, so that seeing other women having fun together doesn't trigger her in this way.

It's not a few posters, seems like the majority don't agree with you no matter how many ways you feel the need to try to make your point over and over again that they are all wrong and you're the only correct one. Just let it go.

New poster here. To be fair I don’t think anyone is right. It’s just a conversation, a circular one at that’. so maybe everyone can let it go?

[Anonymous]

For all the women who wonder if you are in a clique or if you just happen to have a group of friends who get together, often casually and spontaneously, because you are all on the same PTA committee, your kids are on the same sports team or activity, you live in the same neighborhood and chat at the bus stop or on the walk to school.

If you are at a winery celebrating Larla’s birthday / a successful PTA auction / the end of basketball season or planning Teacher Appreciation week / organizing camp car pools and a woman whose children goes to the same school as most of the people in the group walks in to meet with the manager or buy a gift card . . .
You are a clique if you all look away or whisper to each other and generally look like you really hope she doesn’t wave or stop by to say hello.

You aren’t a clique if you wave to her and when she comes over you say “Hello! We’re all (insert reason for the gathering). Do you have time to join us?”

Sharing the reason is key. If OP knew why they were gathered, she would know if it was a group that purposely excluded her or if it happens that they all have a connection that doesn’t include OP.

I try to get groups of moms together in my backyard for wine on a regular basis. When I send out the invite I clearly state how I defined the group so it’s not a mystery. “4th Grade Moms” “Cub Scout Moms” “Longfellow Street Moms”. It’s not a clique because if I invite the people I know well enough to text, but if a 4th grade mom says “can I bring my neighbor Suzy who is also a 4th grade mom?” I say “Of Course!” and then I make introductions when she comes and add her to the list for next time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

NP. Why are you trying to hard to get your feelings hurt? That PP never said that it was NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out of excluded, you did. MOST OF THE TIME you shouldn't have hurt feelings because people you know however tangentially are doing something that doesn't include you. Of course it's ok to be hurt if your best friend planned a trip for her 50th birthday with 10 other women and didn't invite you. But OP's situation? Where she knew a small amount of the people at the event and then decided to send a snarky text acting like it was an every Friday kind of invite-only activity from which she had been purposefully excluded? That's ridiculous.

It's never useful to tell someone they "shouldn't" feel some way. You can tell OP that those women almost certainly didn't exclude her intentionally, and tell her the expectation of inclusion isn't really reasonable since of course not everyone can be invited to everything. And I'd agree.

But if OP feels left out, that's just how she feels. It doesn't matter if you think it's ridiculous or not. If that's how she feels, it likely reflects the broader context of how she fits into this school community and her neighborhood, and as others have noted, might be a result of her not having many friends. She also just might kind of long for a group of women to go out with in that way, and be sad to learn that some of her friends have a group like that... but she's not part of it.

I think it's strange how many posters (or a few posters, posting repeatedly) felt like OP had done something wrong by just feeling awkward or sad about this situation. She shouldn't have sent the bitter text message, but there's nothing wrong with just feeling hurt. It is what it is. Maybe it's a wake up call to OP to put herself out their more or cultivate her friendships more, so that seeing other women having fun together doesn't trigger her in this way.

It's not a few posters, seems like the majority don't agree with you no matter how many ways you feel the need to try to make your point over and over again that they are all wrong and you're the only correct one. Just let it go.

New poster here. To be fair I don’t think anyone is right. It’s just a conversation, a circular one at that’. so maybe everyone can let it go?

Well duh. At this point its just people tone policing others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

NP. Why are you trying to hard to get your feelings hurt? That PP never said that it was NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out of excluded, you did. MOST OF THE TIME you shouldn't have hurt feelings because people you know however tangentially are doing something that doesn't include you. Of course it's ok to be hurt if your best friend planned a trip for her 50th birthday with 10 other women and didn't invite you. But OP's situation? Where she knew a small amount of the people at the event and then decided to send a snarky text acting like it was an every Friday kind of invite-only activity from which she had been purposefully excluded? That's ridiculous.

It's never useful to tell someone they "shouldn't" feel some way. You can tell OP that those women almost certainly didn't exclude her intentionally, and tell her the expectation of inclusion isn't really reasonable since of course not everyone can be invited to everything. And I'd agree.

But if OP feels left out, that's just how she feels. It doesn't matter if you think it's ridiculous or not. If that's how she feels, it likely reflects the broader context of how she fits into this school community and her neighborhood, and as others have noted, might be a result of her not having many friends. She also just might kind of long for a group of women to go out with in that way, and be sad to learn that some of her friends have a group like that... but she's not part of it.

I think it's strange how many posters (or a few posters, posting repeatedly) felt like OP had done something wrong by just feeling awkward or sad about this situation. She shouldn't have sent the bitter text message, but there's nothing wrong with just feeling hurt. It is what it is. Maybe it's a wake up call to OP to put herself out their more or cultivate her friendships more, so that seeing other women having fun together doesn't trigger her in this way.

I find posts like this amusing. You are criticizing PPs for saying OP shouldn't have felt hurt, but then you say that OP unreasonably assumed that she had been excluded and that she presumably felt hurt only because something is wrong in her life, i.e., she doesn't have many friends. That really is not meaningfully different than telling OP that she shouldn't have felt hurt.

No, I didn't say she only felt hurt because there was something wrong in her life. I'm saying that if she felt excluded, that feeling is real and based in something, and not just some unreasonable feeling she should stop feeling. My suggestion is that since what she describes doesn't really seem like intentional excluding to most of us, OP should maybe think about why it felt that way to her. I don't actually know why, and it's even possible that those women were being exclusive and clique-y and OP just didn't describe the behavior that made it feel that way. The point is that if OP says she felt excluded, she felt excluded, and no amount of "you shouldn't feel that way" is going to make her feel different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For all the women who wonder if you are in a clique or if you just happen to have a group of friends who get together, often casually and spontaneously, because you are all on the same PTA committee, your kids are on the same sports team or activity, you live in the same neighborhood and chat at the bus stop or on the walk to school.

If you are at a winery celebrating Larla’s birthday / a successful PTA auction / the end of basketball season or planning Teacher Appreciation week / organizing camp car pools and a woman whose children goes to the same school as most of the people in the group walks in to meet with the manager or buy a gift card . . .
You are a clique if you all look away or whisper to each other and generally look like you really hope she doesn’t wave or stop by to say hello.

You aren’t a clique if you wave to her and when she comes over you say “Hello! We’re all (insert reason for the gathering). Do you have time to join us?”

Sharing the reason is key. If OP knew why they were gathered, she would know if it was a group that purposely excluded her or if it happens that they all have a connection that doesn’t include OP.

I try to get groups of moms together in my backyard for wine on a regular basis. When I send out the invite I clearly state how I defined the group so it’s not a mystery. “4th Grade Moms” “Cub Scout Moms” “Longfellow Street Moms”. It’s not a clique because if I invite the people I know well enough to text, but if a 4th grade mom says “can I bring my neighbor Suzy who is also a 4th grade mom?” I say “Of Course!” and then I make introductions when she comes and add her to the list for next time.

+1, and I think that's one reason this conversation devolved so quickly, because some of the behaviors that can turn a normal friend gathering into a clique are hard to describe. Like OP said the women looked "uber awkward." I think a lot of people just wrote this off as something OP imagined, and that is possible. But I can also think of situations I've been in where no one *said* anything clique-y or exclusionary, but you could tell from the looks people gave each other or the way they stopped conversation when someone walked up that they were excluding.

If you've ever read about relational aggression in kids, you'll get this. It's not overt bullying or teasing, and no one is going to say "you can't come play with us." It's subtle and often takes the form of passive aggression or seemingly innocent behavior with a bite. There are definitely adults who engage in it too. But the whole point of this behavior is that it offers plausible deniability. People who do this stuff arrange it so they can always say "what? I was perfectly nice to Larla when we saw her at the winery. I think she imagined these 'looks' she think she saw."

Not saying that's what happened (I have no idea) but that's why relational aggression is so frustrating -- you know you are being treated poorly but can't really explain why without looking over-sensitive or delusional, because the poor treatment is designed to give the other person an easy out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For all the women who wonder if you are in a clique or if you just happen to have a group of friends who get together, often casually and spontaneously, because you are all on the same PTA committee, your kids are on the same sports team or activity, you live in the same neighborhood and chat at the bus stop or on the walk to school.

If you are at a winery celebrating Larla’s birthday / a successful PTA auction / the end of basketball season or planning Teacher Appreciation week / organizing camp car pools and a woman whose children goes to the same school as most of the people in the group walks in to meet with the manager or buy a gift card . . .
You are a clique if you all look away or whisper to each other and generally look like you really hope she doesn’t wave or stop by to say hello.

You aren’t a clique if you wave to her and when she comes over you say “Hello! We’re all (insert reason for the gathering). Do you have time to join us?”

Sharing the reason is key. If OP knew why they were gathered, she would know if it was a group that purposely excluded her or if it happens that they all have a connection that doesn’t include OP.

I try to get groups of moms together in my backyard for wine on a regular basis. When I send out the invite I clearly state how I defined the group so it’s not a mystery. “4th Grade Moms” “Cub Scout Moms” “Longfellow Street Moms”. It’s not a clique because if I invite the people I know well enough to text, but if a 4th grade mom says “can I bring my neighbor Suzy who is also a 4th grade mom?” I say “Of Course!” and then I make introductions when she comes and add her to the list for next time.

OP here--I assure you this "You aren’t a clique if you wave to her and when she comes over you say “Hello! We’re all (insert reason for the gathering). Do you have time to join us?” didn't happen....just lots of uncomfortable looks given to me.

To the other posters, I have friends from different walks of life and most of them are not from my kids' elementary school. There are a quite few moms from the school I am friendly with...and ,yes, they show up for the events I am hosting if invited and available. I also invite all of the children from my kids' classes to their Birthday parties through the school and parent contact list, but I am not upset if some of them don't show up. People have plans, so totally ok. Some parents do not, they really like to control the narrative and some kids are always excluded (one special needs boy in particular), which is sad.

As far as for the Monday bus stop interactions (per everyone request), one kid stopped riding the bus this week (his mom drives him to school every day)...which is unusual. I have not seen the other mom, as we have two stops in our neighborhood. Might see her this week, if bus is running late and I need to get my kids earlier to get them somewhere.

I was just really surprised by bashing instead of sharing stories. I did enjoy reading stories shared by other moms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d also feel weird if I went somewhere 15+ other women were having lunch and I hadn’t been included. I think other posters are delusional if they think this wouldn’t affect them in the slightest.

That said I have no interest in developing friendships with other moms from school. I do my own thing and my social life doesn’t revolve around school events, volunteering or my kids.

This is where I land. There is a bit of a mom clique at my DD's elementary. They were pretty cold to me initially but as my DD became friends with their kids, they started extending invites. But the truth is, I don't want my social circle to be so closely tied to my DD's. I also don't like to just socialize with coworkers. I'm friendly and pleasant with people both places, but decline most invites and my close friendships are with old friends I've known since before kids and most don't work in my industry.

Part of the reason why is that I think these communities are more susceptible to these kinds of dynamics, with someone getting left out, or feeling left out, and then there's awkwardness or drama. I don't like that feeling if being unsure of my friendships, or like I need to work to maintain my role in a group. I didn't like that those other moms only became interested in me as a friend after our DD's became friends, for instance. That's a weird metric for deciding if you want to be friends with someone, IMO.

OP said the other women are empty nesters or parents of MS/HS kids who don’t live in her neighborhood. I still can’t understand why anyone is validating her feelings that this was some sort of sleight. The vast majority of the group isn’t her friend. Don’t you think every single woman at that lunch has a multitude of other friends who weren’t invited? What makes OP so special that she and not all the other friends of the women in the group deserve an invite?

Do you think when she gets together with a group of friends she is feeling bad that all their other friends she doesn’t know weren’t also invited?

No wonder some of you on this board can go function socially in the world if this is how you emotionally handle a group of people you hardly know having lunch.

When you get together with 15 other women, are every one of them your friend? Probably not. When I go out with a group like that, usually I am friends with a couple people and friendly with maybe a few more, and then the rest will either be acquaintances or I might never have met them. Actually just a couple days ago I went out with four friends and one was a very close friend, one was a friend I've known forever but am not that close to, and the other two I'd never met before (but were friends of my friends). This is very normal.

So actually it would be very normal for her friends to have included her in this outing and I think it was awkward when she ran into them because this was apparent to those involved -- they could have invited her but didn't, and it makes it seem like she was excluded. It probably wasn't on purpose but it also means they didn't think of her, which still hurts a little.

Also I think you are misreading the OP. All the women at the winery were moms from her kids' school -- I think she knew all of them at least by site. The group of empty-nesters and moms of older kids is a reference to the other women in her subdivision. I think she is saying that in her subdivision, there are only a few moms of kids in the elementary school, and she is one of them. And all the others were at this gathering with other moms from the same school, and she was the only one from her specific neighborhood who wasn't invited. She was not saying that the gathering was two women from her kids school and then a bunch of empty-nesters and moms of older kids.

Where did OP say that it was the people she knew who arranged the outing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all the women who wonder if you are in a clique or if you just happen to have a group of friends who get together, often casually and spontaneously, because you are all on the same PTA committee, your kids are on the same sports team or activity, you live in the same neighborhood and chat at the bus stop or on the walk to school.

If you are at a winery celebrating Larla’s birthday / a successful PTA auction / the end of basketball season or planning Teacher Appreciation week / organizing camp car pools and a woman whose children goes to the same school as most of the people in the group walks in to meet with the manager or buy a gift card . . .
You are a clique if you all look away or whisper to each other and generally look like you really hope she doesn’t wave or stop by to say hello.

You aren’t a clique if you wave to her and when she comes over you say “Hello! We’re all (insert reason for the gathering). Do you have time to join us?”

Sharing the reason is key. If OP knew why they were gathered, she would know if it was a group that purposely excluded her or if it happens that they all have a connection that doesn’t include OP.

I try to get groups of moms together in my backyard for wine on a regular basis. When I send out the invite I clearly state how I defined the group so it’s not a mystery. “4th Grade Moms” “Cub Scout Moms” “Longfellow Street Moms”. It’s not a clique because if I invite the people I know well enough to text, but if a 4th grade mom says “can I bring my neighbor Suzy who is also a 4th grade mom?” I say “Of Course!” and then I make introductions when she comes and add her to the list for next time.

OP here--I assure you this "You aren’t a clique if you wave to her and when she comes over you say “Hello! We’re all (insert reason for the gathering). Do you have time to join us?” didn't happen....just lots of uncomfortable looks given to me.

To the other posters, I have friends from different walks of life and most of them are not from my kids' elementary school. There are a quite few moms from the school I am friendly with...and ,yes, they show up for the events I am hosting if invited and available. I also invite all of the children from my kids' classes to their Birthday parties through the school and parent contact list, but I am not upset if some of them don't show up. People have plans, so totally ok. Some parents do not, they really like to control the narrative and some kids are always excluded (one special needs boy in particular), which is sad.

As far as for the Monday bus stop interactions (per everyone request), one kid stopped riding the bus this week (his mom drives him to school every day)...which is unusual. I have not seen the other mom, as we have two stops in our neighborhood. Might see her this week, if bus is running late and I need to get my kids earlier to get them somewhere.

I was just really surprised by bashing instead of sharing stories. I did enjoy reading stories shared by other moms.

Sorry your invitation to bash other women was not well received. Nobody knows you, other than you started a post to be divisive and catty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all the women who wonder if you are in a clique or if you just happen to have a group of friends who get together, often casually and spontaneously, because you are all on the same PTA committee, your kids are on the same sports team or activity, you live in the same neighborhood and chat at the bus stop or on the walk to school.

If you are at a winery celebrating Larla’s birthday / a successful PTA auction / the end of basketball season or planning Teacher Appreciation week / organizing camp car pools and a woman whose children goes to the same school as most of the people in the group walks in to meet with the manager or buy a gift card . . .
You are a clique if you all look away or whisper to each other and generally look like you really hope she doesn’t wave or stop by to say hello.

You aren’t a clique if you wave to her and when she comes over you say “Hello! We’re all (insert reason for the gathering). Do you have time to join us?”

Sharing the reason is key. If OP knew why they were gathered, she would know if it was a group that purposely excluded her or if it happens that they all have a connection that doesn’t include OP.

I try to get groups of moms together in my backyard for wine on a regular basis. When I send out the invite I clearly state how I defined the group so it’s not a mystery. “4th Grade Moms” “Cub Scout Moms” “Longfellow Street Moms”. It’s not a clique because if I invite the people I know well enough to text, but if a 4th grade mom says “can I bring my neighbor Suzy who is also a 4th grade mom?” I say “Of Course!” and then I make introductions when she comes and add her to the list for next time.

OP here--I assure you this "You aren’t a clique if you wave to her and when she comes over you say “Hello! We’re all (insert reason for the gathering). Do you have time to join us?” didn't happen....just lots of uncomfortable looks given to me.

To the other posters, I have friends from different walks of life and most of them are not from my kids' elementary school. There are a quite few moms from the school I am friendly with...and ,yes, they show up for the events I am hosting if invited and available. I also invite all of the children from my kids' classes to their Birthday parties through the school and parent contact list, but I am not upset if some of them don't show up. People have plans, so totally ok. Some parents do not, they really like to control the narrative and some kids are always excluded (one special needs boy in particular), which is sad.

As far as for the Monday bus stop interactions (per everyone request), one kid stopped riding the bus this week (his mom drives him to school every day)...which is unusual. I have not seen the other mom, as we have two stops in our neighborhood. Might see her this week, if bus is running late and I need to get my kids earlier to get them somewhere.

I was just really surprised by bashing instead of sharing stories. I did enjoy reading stories shared by other moms.

Sorry your invitation to bash other women was not well received. Nobody knows you, other than you started a post to be divisive and catty.

+1. My god.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

I never said I thought that these women went out of their way to exclude OP. I think probably it was either an accident (a text chain about the gathering and the people who might have invited OP either forgot to include her or were added to the group late enough that they didn't invite anyone) or maybe this is how OP found out that she wasn't as close to these particular women (meaning the group from her neighborhood she is actually friends with) as she thought.

I just agree that the incident would be kind of awkward and believe OP that it felt awkward in the moment. And I don't think it's weird she felt that way, as I can imagine a similar situation where I would also feel awkward. That's all. I don't think it was some giant conspiracy to exclude OP, but she *was* excluded (whether simply by accident or maybe a bit more purposefully, but probably not maliciously) and it's reasonable that she would feel the sting of that when it happened.

I think the people who are calling OP crazy or delusional or acting like it's totally unreasonable to feel as she did are protesting a little too much. You can empathize with OP without casting the other women involved as vicious mean girls.

But the incident wasn’t awkward and there was no need for anyone to feel awkward. No one did anything wrong.

She could have handled it like bumping into someone at the grocery store because this is essentially what this is. She happened to see a couple friends out doing something that didn’t concern her. A smile and wave is a normal response. Why be weird about it?

No, you are the one projecting facts onto this. OP said it was awkward, but you asserts it was not. She was there, you were not. She describes it as being normal at first when it was 4 or 5 women, but then a bunch more arrived and it became awkward. This makes sense to me, that as more women arrived it became increasingly weird that they were all getting together and OP didn't know anything about it. That is what OP describes and thus that is what I assume happened. Why are you so convinced her perception of this incident is incorrect? You weren't there so her word is all we have.

I'm not inventing any facts and just going on what OP is saying, I can empathize. You are imposing your own baggage onto it because you are determined to prove that OP misinterpreted a situation about which you only have OP's description. Why? You're tilting at windmills here and I don't get it.

DP. OP did not say it was awkward, she said, and I quote:

"They felt uber uncomfortable seeing me there."

So OP decided that the others felt uncomfortable. If I had been one of the 15 and didn't know OP, why would I be uncomfortable? I wouldn't be, and OP is saying they were. Hmmmm.

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Anonymous wrote:I’d also feel weird if I went somewhere 15+ other women were having lunch and I hadn’t been included. I think other posters are delusional if they think this wouldn’t affect them in the slightest.

That said I have no interest in developing friendships with other moms from school. I do my own thing and my social life doesn’t revolve around school events, volunteering or my kids.

This is where I land. There is a bit of a mom clique at my DD's elementary. They were pretty cold to me initially but as my DD became friends with their kids, they started extending invites. But the truth is, I don't want my social circle to be so closely tied to my DD's. I also don't like to just socialize with coworkers. I'm friendly and pleasant with people both places, but decline most invites and my close friendships are with old friends I've known since before kids and most don't work in my industry.

Part of the reason why is that I think these communities are more susceptible to these kinds of dynamics, with someone getting left out, or feeling left out, and then there's awkwardness or drama. I don't like that feeling if being unsure of my friendships, or like I need to work to maintain my role in a group. I didn't like that those other moms only became interested in me as a friend after our DD's became friends, for instance. That's a weird metric for deciding if you want to be friends with someone, IMO.

OP said the other women are empty nesters or parents of MS/HS kids who don’t live in her neighborhood. I still can’t understand why anyone is validating her feelings that this was some sort of sleight. The vast majority of the group isn’t her friend. Don’t you think every single woman at that lunch has a multitude of other friends who weren’t invited? What makes OP so special that she and not all the other friends of the women in the group deserve an invite?

Do you think when she gets together with a group of friends she is feeling bad that all their other friends she doesn’t know weren’t also invited?

No wonder some of you on this board can go function socially in the world if this is how you emotionally handle a group of people you hardly know having lunch.

When you get together with 15 other women, are every one of them your friend? Probably not. When I go out with a group like that, usually I am friends with a couple people and friendly with maybe a few more, and then the rest will either be acquaintances or I might never have met them. Actually just a couple days ago I went out with four friends and one was a very close friend, one was a friend I've known forever but am not that close to, and the other two I'd never met before (but were friends of my friends). This is very normal.

So actually it would be very normal for her friends to have included her in this outing and I think it was awkward when she ran into them because this was apparent to those involved -- they could have invited her but didn't, and it makes it seem like she was excluded. It probably wasn't on purpose but it also means they didn't think of her, which still hurts a little.

Also I think you are misreading the OP. All the women at the winery were moms from her kids' school -- I think she knew all of them at least by site. The group of empty-nesters and moms of older kids is a reference to the other women in her subdivision. I think she is saying that in her subdivision, there are only a few moms of kids in the elementary school, and she is one of them. And all the others were at this gathering with other moms from the same school, and she was the only one from her specific neighborhood who wasn't invited. She was not saying that the gathering was two women from her kids school and then a bunch of empty-nesters and moms of older kids.

Why would you assume her friends were the organizers of this event and had control over the guest list?

Also, I bet you every single woman at that event had a friend (or 10!) they could have invited in theory. By your logic anything other than an open invite is an awkward exclusionary event.

I’m also willing to bet that women who don’t act all petty/awkward about minor stuff like this and try to stir up drama are more likely to be invited to things. So OP is likely to have set her own self fulfilling prophecy.

No one is assuming that. The point is that if there were 15 women at the event, then yeah, one of the women who was close to OP could have extended the invite to her and even if they weren't the "official organizer" of the event (it is highly unlikely there was an official organizer because that's not how most people's friend groups function), it would have been fine. They didn't. So they either didn't think of her or they thought of her and were like "eh, no." That's why OP was embarrassed. Normal.

You are inventing these very specific scenarios where this was some kind of strictly organized event that OP could not possibly been included in and for her to feel otherwise is ridiculous, and it really doesn't sound like that was the case.

Are you saying that if you threw a party for 15 people you would be totally fine if each of them brought 2-3 other people you wouldn't be annoyed? On what planet do you live?

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Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

I never said I thought that these women went out of their way to exclude OP. I think probably it was either an accident (a text chain about the gathering and the people who might have invited OP either forgot to include her or were added to the group late enough that they didn't invite anyone) or maybe this is how OP found out that she wasn't as close to these particular women (meaning the group from her neighborhood she is actually friends with) as she thought.

I just agree that the incident would be kind of awkward and believe OP that it felt awkward in the moment. And I don't think it's weird she felt that way, as I can imagine a similar situation where I would also feel awkward. That's all. I don't think it was some giant conspiracy to exclude OP, but she *was* excluded (whether simply by accident or maybe a bit more purposefully, but probably not maliciously) and it's reasonable that she would feel the sting of that when it happened.

I think the people who are calling OP crazy or delusional or acting like it's totally unreasonable to feel as she did are protesting a little too much. You can empathize with OP without casting the other women involved as vicious mean girls.

But the incident wasn’t awkward and there was no need for anyone to feel awkward. No one did anything wrong.

She could have handled it like bumping into someone at the grocery store because this is essentially what this is. She happened to see a couple friends out doing something that didn’t concern her. A smile and wave is a normal response. Why be weird about it?

No, you are the one projecting facts onto this. OP said it was awkward, but you asserts it was not. She was there, you were not. She describes it as being normal at first when it was 4 or 5 women, but then a bunch more arrived and it became awkward. This makes sense to me, that as more women arrived it became increasingly weird that they were all getting together and OP didn't know anything about it. That is what OP describes and thus that is what I assume happened. Why are you so convinced her perception of this incident is incorrect? You weren't there so her word is all we have.

I'm not inventing any facts and just going on what OP is saying, I can empathize. You are imposing your own baggage onto it because you are determined to prove that OP misinterpreted a situation about which you only have OP's description. Why? You're tilting at windmills here and I don't get it.

NP. But…why would it be awkward for *people she’s not friends with* to get together without her? She doesn’t even know like 80% of the women there.

This. It is objectively not awkward to be excluded from a group of people you barely know. Add in the fact she seems gleeful about sending a follow up snark text and the resulting bus stop drama sounds like textbook BPD. I don’t take OP as a very reliable narrator.

This comment makes no sense. She knew about a third of the group reasonably well. It doesn't sound like the others were strangers, either, because otherwise how would she recognize them? If it was just two friends and then a bunch of total strangers, I would assume my friends were hanging out with the ladies from their barre class. But OP knew it was a group of moms from the school, likely because she knew 5 of them and had met the other 10.

The whole "these weren't her friends, they were strangers" narrative is something being pushed on OP but it's not what she said at all.

Not PP, but she is only actual friends with 2 of the 15. It’s insane to me that if I saw 2 friends, 3 acquaintances, and 10 women I didn’t know at all out to lunch together, that that would count as me being singled out and excluded.

OP here—I live in a small subdivision maybe 15 houses. Most of the moms (except for one) are moms from my kids classes. There was one mom that was not, but I know her as well. We had coffee together a couple of times.

So unless you have multiples, these are moms with children in various different grades. So it's not like the 15 other fourth grade moms got together and didn't invite you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know if OP is someone who needs to hear this, but here goes: friendships, even so-called "mom friendships", take time, work, and effort. You don't get an invites to the lunches, etc. just by showing up at the bus stop or soccer practice and making chit chat about your kids' schedules or the weather. You need to reach out to people, ask them to have coffee or go for a walk, show interest in their lives, have actual conversation, form connections... Sometimes you need to be the one to organize and host the outing... I hear women complain about being excluded or cliques, but they are doing diddly squat to try and form friendships.

Presumably it was only like one or two of these women who initiated and organized the get together. And presumably it was the initiators/organizers who got to set the guest list, which also presumably had a cap since this was at restaurant or similar venue. OP it probably wasn't one of the women that you are closer with who were doing the planning and inviting. NBD.

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+1

We used to have a mom in our neighborhood (who has since moved after getting divorced) who would get really offended when she wasn't invited to something (not even a big group thing, she would get upset if three of us who happened to run into each other at the bus stop decided to go lunch later that day). But the real problem was that for years she had been invited to everything and rarely ever came. So yeah, eventually people stopped inviting her to everything.

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Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the whole thread. Did the person OP texted text her back?

Agree we need an update on that Stat even if the response was crickets. OP don't let us down.

If I were the OP, I'd give you nothing. The PPs on here will twist anything she says to make the situation her fault and tell her how she deserves to be left out of every activity ever. It's absolutely bananas on this thread.

Careful, your hyperbole is showing.

Most posters actually said that OP shouldn't be upset. A few said she was a peach (after her rude follow up post) and some have called her needy or whatever, but the majority of the people who disagree with your assessment of the situation didn't call OP names, they just said she wouldn't worry about this and it's ok.

You are the one twisting everything to fit some sort of narrative about a cabal of mean girls on DCUM and it's bizarre.