Do you think MC families are happier than UMC families?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. MC families are three paychecks or less away from financial problems. Their fancy dinner out is to Olive Garden or Outback. Their vacations are camping or traveling to boring places to see relatives.

You can be UMC and not be competitive.

I'm MC and wouldn't be caught dead in an olive garden, I have 6 months emergency savings account. The travel plans are kind of dead on though lol good things my family lives in some interesting places.

I try not to be competitive because I recognize there's a lot of pathways to succeed and there are so many jobs today that didn't exist 20 years ago. It's more about developing the right character traits than about being the best at piano or soccer when you were 8

What is so wrong with Olive Garden? We currently live in Europe and eat around at various places. Olive Garden is decent.

Because The food at Olive garden is not that good ? This comment makes zero sense because there are no Olive gardens in Europe and even the little mom-and-pop Italian restaurants in most places would blow Olive garden out of water

There are just so many good quality restaurants in the DC area that I don't see the point of spending my money on a very mediocre chain

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, my spouse and I both grew up MC and went to top tier colleges and grad schools. Through hard work and good luck and a leg up, all of this means we are UMC, and DC being what it is, we are raising our kids in a hyper competitive area. It’s rough sometimes, especially because there is always someone who has more/can do more/ etc. HOWEVER, all of our experience has led to the shared, very firm commitment to loving the kids we were given and teaching them that finding purpose and happiness is going to be much more important than going to a certain college or picking a certain career.

Our advice is always marry well, do something you love, be a kind and generous person… everything else will fall into place.

Spoken like someone completely sheltered from the reality that many other people experience. The reality where “marrying well” and doing something you love are not simple choices that you can make in life.

[Anonymous]

I doubt it. Life is expensive and it’s stressful to not be able to comfortably afford owning and maintaining a home in a safe neighborhood and decent school district.

I do, however, think that there are probably diminishing returns on happiness above a certain income threshold.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I doubt it. Life is expensive and it’s stressful to not be able to comfortably afford owning and maintaining a home in a safe neighborhood and decent school district.

I do, however, think that there are probably diminishing returns on happiness above a certain income threshold.

Also… you can opt out of the competitiveness to a degree. I think there are truly diminishing returns to raising your child in a pressure cooker. Admissions to elite colleges is a total crapshoot these days, and your unhooked UMC kids are going to actually have a harder time than anyone else - they are not wealthy and connected, they are not disadvantaged, and they are a dime a dozen. So yeah, I won’t put my kid in 18 activities in prek. I’m putting them in a parochial school that focuses dually on academics and community. I hope they have happy childhoods, understand that doing well at school is an expectation to help them reach their potential and feel good about themselves, and not solely to give them a competitive edge. I am intentionally not enrolling them in a pressure cooker school or living in a cut throat school district. I don’t see the point of ruining their adolescence to have them crushed when they don’t get into Penn, because the reality is that most of these crazed, overschedueld kids WONT get into elite colleges, and they could all benefit from more balance in life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I doubt it. Life is expensive and it’s stressful to not be able to comfortably afford owning and maintaining a home in a safe neighborhood and decent school district.

I do, however, think that there are probably diminishing returns on happiness above a certain income threshold.

Also… you can opt out of the competitiveness to a degree. I think there are truly diminishing returns to raising your child in a pressure cooker. Admissions to elite colleges is a total crapshoot these days, and your unhooked UMC kids are going to actually have a harder time than anyone else - they are not wealthy and connected, they are not disadvantaged, and they are a dime a dozen. So yeah, I won’t put my kid in 18 activities in prek. I’m putting them in a parochial school that focuses dually on academics and community. I hope they have happy childhoods, understand that doing well at school is an expectation to help them reach their potential and feel good about themselves, and not solely to give them a competitive edge. I am intentionally not enrolling them in a pressure cooker school or living in a cut throat school district. I don’t see the point of ruining their adolescence to have them crushed when they don’t get into Penn, because the reality is that most of these crazed, overschedueld kids WONT get into elite colleges, and they could all benefit from more balance in life.

OP here. Ha. Both my kids want to go to Penn. DH and I both attended top colleges and grad schools. We are well off but not rich. DH does have some connections. Who knows what that will mean? Our friend’s kid just got rejected from Penn and he is a double legacy and parents are donors. I guess they are not big enough donors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know families in the midwest who make 190K combined, raised 4 kids, and think they've made it. The kids all went to state college (think U Kansas, U Missouri), probably never heard of Amherst or Middlebury. They have like 80K left on 2.7% mortgage, drive two older model US cars, and are super happy. They have never been to Europe or Asia, don't see the need. Once every 5 years will go to Caribbean maybe Mexico. Most of the time their vacations are driving vacations. Depends on how you define MC, but there is a whole trench of MC across America who are ignorant of other possibilities, choices, avenues, careers. And ignorance is bliss.

OP here. This is exactly what I mean. I am thinking of one acquaintance whose kid recently went to Arizona or Alabama and totally proud and satisfied. They live in a modest home, have modest jobs and just seem happy. If you live in McLean and your kid has a 4.3 GPA, you won’t be able to get into UVA. It isn’t high enough. Your kid can play travel soccer or travel baseball their whole lives and get cut from the high school soccer team.

I know the locals think UVA is on par with the Ivies but the rest of the country doesn’t. It’s a very good well priced school but not something these parents who are super competitive would settle for.

As for kids sports that’s the way it is everywhere. Hundreds of kids start out, they start dropping out in middle school but there are still not enough spots for the kids who still want to play in high school.

We don’t think UVA is on par with Ivies. I was just giving an example of what I hear from parents with kids in high school. DH and I both attended college and grad schools ranked higher than UVA. I will only admit it on an anonymous forum but I would be disappointed with UVA.

If you’re sneering at your neighbors for aspiring to UVa, maybe you’re more like them (hyper-competitive) than you want to admit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know families in the midwest who make 190K combined, raised 4 kids, and think they've made it. The kids all went to state college (think U Kansas, U Missouri), probably never heard of Amherst or Middlebury. They have like 80K left on 2.7% mortgage, drive two older model US cars, and are super happy. They have never been to Europe or Asia, don't see the need. Once every 5 years will go to Caribbean maybe Mexico. Most of the time their vacations are driving vacations. Depends on how you define MC, but there is a whole trench of MC across America who are ignorant of other possibilities, choices, avenues, careers. And ignorance is bliss.

OP here. This is exactly what I mean. I am thinking of one acquaintance whose kid recently went to Arizona or Alabama and totally proud and satisfied. They live in a modest home, have modest jobs and just seem happy. If you live in McLean and your kid has a 4.3 GPA, you won’t be able to get into UVA. It isn’t high enough. Your kid can play travel soccer or travel baseball their whole lives and get cut from the high school soccer team.

I know the locals think UVA is on par with the Ivies but the rest of the country doesn’t. It’s a very good well priced school but not something these parents who are super competitive would settle for.

As for kids sports that’s the way it is everywhere. Hundreds of kids start out, they start dropping out in middle school but there are still not enough spots for the kids who still want to play in high school.

We don’t think UVA is on par with Ivies. I was just giving an example of what I hear from parents with kids in high school. DH and I both attended college and grad schools ranked higher than UVA. I will only admit it on an anonymous forum but I would be disappointed with UVA.

If you’re sneering at your neighbors for aspiring to UVa, maybe you’re more like them (hyper-competitive) than you want to admit.

If this is how you think you won't be at all happy in an MC area somewhere else, either. And while you hate the hamster wheel, you sort of love it or you'd be able to get over the idea that UVA is merely a backup school (which I totally understand, I'm a TJ alumn so it was the backup school of most of my high school graduating class).

I have a friend who moved from the east coast to a very MC area in the middle of the country somewhere. It took her a really long time to come around to the idea that most of her peers didn't even have college degrees at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I doubt it. Life is expensive and it’s stressful to not be able to comfortably afford owning and maintaining a home in a safe neighborhood and decent school district.

I do, however, think that there are probably diminishing returns on happiness above a certain income threshold.

Also… you can opt out of the competitiveness to a degree. I think there are truly diminishing returns to raising your child in a pressure cooker. Admissions to elite colleges is a total crapshoot these days, and your unhooked UMC kids are going to actually have a harder time than anyone else - they are not wealthy and connected, they are not disadvantaged, and they are a dime a dozen. So yeah, I won’t put my kid in 18 activities in prek. I’m putting them in a parochial school that focuses dually on academics and community. I hope they have happy childhoods, understand that doing well at school is an expectation to help them reach their potential and feel good about themselves, and not solely to give them a competitive edge. I am intentionally not enrolling them in a pressure cooker school or living in a cut throat school district. I don’t see the point of ruining their adolescence to have them crushed when they don’t get into Penn, because the reality is that most of these crazed, overschedueld kids WONT get into elite colleges, and they could all benefit from more balance in life.

OP here. Ha. Both my kids want to go to Penn. DH and I both attended top colleges and grad schools. We are well off but not rich. DH does have some connections. Who knows what that will mean? Our friend’s kid just got rejected from Penn and he is a double legacy and parents are donors. I guess they are not big enough donors.

More likely there were students more qualified and interesting than their kid. Why can’t anyone just be honest about this.

[Anonymous]

You are conflating UMC vs MC with living in a competitive metropolitan area vs other parts of the country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are an UMC family living in an affluent competitive area (McLean). My kids are strong students and kids are very academically focused. Parents are well educated and have UMC jobs (lots of lawyers and doctors). Everything feels competitive whether it is music, soccer, baseball, swim or tennis. There are so many smart talented kids. My youngest is in first and parents are talking about AAP (advanced academic program) that they get screened for in second grade.

I see friends in other normal areas or out of state and it feels much less stressful and carefree. I was talking to a friend with a junior in college and they seem not stressed and content and satisfied with the child going to a non competitive college. The kid doesn’t have good grades or a high SAT score and they don’t seem bothered.

Do you think MC or average people are happier?

I think MC families ARE happier unless a ruinous event occurs:

Divorce,
Death,
Health issues,
Etc.

The extra money comes in handy in the event of an emergency but otherwise may be an inadvertent source of stress and unhappiness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There’s actually data on this. The sweet spot is the upper Midwest, where there are lots of good jobs and the cost of living is reasonable.

I read this book on financial insecurity and modern America and it’s usually the upper middle class the most about money. Sociologist referred to it as guarding your financial status. I imagine it must be exhausting.

Middle class not upper class and I engage in the financial strategy known as holding steady. It’s stressful, but not the same way.

What's the book title and author? Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s actually data on this. The sweet spot is the upper Midwest, where there are lots of good jobs and the cost of living is reasonable.

I read this book on financial insecurity and modern America and it’s usually the upper middle class the most about money. Sociologist referred to it as guarding your financial status. I imagine it must be exhausting.

Middle class not upper class and I engage in the financial strategy known as holding steady. It’s stressful, but not the same way.

What's the book title and author? Thanks.

https://www.mariannecooper.com/book

It was a great read. Helped me change my perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know families in the midwest who make 190K combined, raised 4 kids, and think they've made it. The kids all went to state college (think U Kansas, U Missouri), probably never heard of Amherst or Middlebury. They have like 80K left on 2.7% mortgage, drive two older model US cars, and are super happy. They have never been to Europe or Asia, don't see the need. Once every 5 years will go to Caribbean maybe Mexico. Most of the time their vacations are driving vacations. Depends on how you define MC, but there is a whole trench of MC across America who are ignorant of other possibilities, choices, avenues, careers. And ignorance is bliss.

OP here. This is exactly what I mean. I am thinking of one acquaintance whose kid recently went to Arizona or Alabama and totally proud and satisfied. They live in a modest home, have modest jobs and just seem happy. If you live in McLean and your kid has a 4.3 GPA, you won’t be able to get into UVA. It isn’t high enough. Your kid can play travel soccer or travel baseball their whole lives and get cut from the high school soccer team.

I know the locals think UVA is on par with the Ivies but the rest of the country doesn’t. It’s a very good well priced school but not something these parents who are super competitive would settle for.

As for kids sports that’s the way it is everywhere. Hundreds of kids start out, they start dropping out in middle school but there are still not enough spots for the kids who still want to play in high school.

We don’t think UVA is on par with Ivies. I was just giving an example of what I hear from parents with kids in high school. DH and I both attended college and grad schools ranked higher than UVA. I will only admit it on an anonymous forum but I would be disappointed with UVA.

Most people who went to Ivies wouldn’t get in nowadays. You might want to adjust your expectations.

Every generation says this. When the current students are 50 they’ll tell their kids that they wouldn’t get in nowadays. So who’s getting in?

Um no. Just look at acceptance rates for schools. Just look at the average GPAs and SATs at not just Ivys but many state schools. A very high GPA and SAT is the bare minimum to get in many places. Kids with incredible stats getting rejected left and right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know families in the midwest who make 190K combined, raised 4 kids, and think they've made it. The kids all went to state college (think U Kansas, U Missouri), probably never heard of Amherst or Middlebury. They have like 80K left on 2.7% mortgage, drive two older model US cars, and are super happy. They have never been to Europe or Asia, don't see the need. Once every 5 years will go to Caribbean maybe Mexico. Most of the time their vacations are driving vacations. Depends on how you define MC, but there is a whole trench of MC across America who are ignorant of other possibilities, choices, avenues, careers. And ignorance is bliss.

OP here. This is exactly what I mean. I am thinking of one acquaintance whose kid recently went to Arizona or Alabama and totally proud and satisfied. They live in a modest home, have modest jobs and just seem happy. If you live in McLean and your kid has a 4.3 GPA, you won’t be able to get into UVA. It isn’t high enough. Your kid can play travel soccer or travel baseball their whole lives and get cut from the high school soccer team.

I know the locals think UVA is on par with the Ivies but the rest of the country doesn’t. It’s a very good well priced school but not something these parents who are super competitive would settle for.

As for kids sports that’s the way it is everywhere. Hundreds of kids start out, they start dropping out in middle school but there are still not enough spots for the kids who still want to play in high school.

We don’t think UVA is on par with Ivies. I was just giving an example of what I hear from parents with kids in high school. DH and I both attended college and grad schools ranked higher than UVA. I will only admit it on an anonymous forum but I would be disappointed with UVA.

Most people who went to Ivies wouldn’t get in nowadays. You might want to adjust your expectations.

Every generation says this. When the current students are 50 they’ll tell their kids that they wouldn’t get in nowadays. So who’s getting in?

Well, historically it has been true over several generations that the number of qualified applicants have been on the rise, acceptance rates have dropped, average stats have gone up. So it has been getting tougher. There may be a limit to this (one can hope) but we don’t seem to have hit it yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know families in the midwest who make 190K combined, raised 4 kids, and think they've made it. The kids all went to state college (think U Kansas, U Missouri), probably never heard of Amherst or Middlebury. They have like 80K left on 2.7% mortgage, drive two older model US cars, and are super happy. They have never been to Europe or Asia, don't see the need. Once every 5 years will go to Caribbean maybe Mexico. Most of the time their vacations are driving vacations. Depends on how you define MC, but there is a whole trench of MC across America who are ignorant of other possibilities, choices, avenues, careers. And ignorance is bliss.

OP here. This is exactly what I mean. I am thinking of one acquaintance whose kid recently went to Arizona or Alabama and totally proud and satisfied. They live in a modest home, have modest jobs and just seem happy. If you live in McLean and your kid has a 4.3 GPA, you won’t be able to get into UVA. It isn’t high enough. Your kid can play travel soccer or travel baseball their whole lives and get cut from the high school soccer team.

I know the locals think UVA is on par with the Ivies but the rest of the country doesn’t. It’s a very good well priced school but not something these parents who are super competitive would settle for.

As for kids sports that’s the way it is everywhere. Hundreds of kids start out, they start dropping out in middle school but there are still not enough spots for the kids who still want to play in high school.

We don’t think UVA is on par with Ivies. I was just giving an example of what I hear from parents with kids in high school. DH and I both attended college and grad schools ranked higher than UVA. I will only admit it on an anonymous forum but I would be disappointed with UVA.

This is beside the point but I went to UVA and both I and many of my peers went on to Ivy grad schools from there. One could do worse, and if you’re in-state, you get quite the deal.