Am I Being Scammed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so normal PGS on a batch of embryos is $5-8,000.

1) you're talking about trusting a unknown startup with a critical medical test that you cannot do-over, at a cost 5-9 times what a regular PGS should be

2) if you're considering this on already extant embryos, you are likely going to kill the whole batch with the thaw/sample/freeze process. people only consider doing this when there is a deadly genetic issue that they are trying to avoid.

3) economic status is still the best predictor of success. invest the $40k now in a 529, provide love and support to whatever kids you get.

They are analyzing the SNP data from the lab where my clinic sent the biopsy samples. This company also collects DNA from both of the parents and then uses the SNP to reconstruct the entire genome for every embryo. I don’t need to biopsy again, I already have the data needed to analyze this information. Yes, parental SES is the best predictor of life outcomes, but genes matter. There are already studies that have been conducted (and replicated) where researchers used genetic scores to predict social mobility and economic success among siblings.

Gullible much?

You are not up to date on the research. https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1801238115
These people did not provide me studies as references. I was already aware of this research and was actively looking for someone that might be able to do this for me. It’s just hard to find people that do it because it is a controversial service.

it's also hard to find people willing to do CRISPR edits on embryos...

look, you appear to have made your mind up. good luck!

I have not decided yet, because I’m not sure how to evaluate whether some random company offering the service is credible. This is categorically different than CRISPR because nothing is being changed. I’m just looking at additional information.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, whatever the links that are posted, IQ tests in children are notoriously inconsistent. I’ve got two high IQ kids and had one tested to confirm. The second time, I kept the neuropsychologists away because the test results were all over the place and went with academic testing to confirm instead. It’s much more reliable and relevant to the child’s education.

The predictors are developed from adult IQ which is more heritable and stable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so normal PGS on a batch of embryos is $5-8,000.

1) you're talking about trusting a unknown startup with a critical medical test that you cannot do-over, at a cost 5-9 times what a regular PGS should be

2) if you're considering this on already extant embryos, you are likely going to kill the whole batch with the thaw/sample/freeze process. people only consider doing this when there is a deadly genetic issue that they are trying to avoid.

3) economic status is still the best predictor of success. invest the $40k now in a 529, provide love and support to whatever kids you get.

They are analyzing the SNP data from the lab where my clinic sent the biopsy samples. This company also collects DNA from both of the parents and then uses the SNP to reconstruct the entire genome for every embryo. I don’t need to biopsy again, I already have the data needed to analyze this information. Yes, parental SES is the best predictor of life outcomes, but genes matter. There are already studies that have been conducted (and replicated) where researchers used genetic scores to predict social mobility and economic success among siblings.

Gullible much?

You are not up to date on the research. https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1801238115
These people did not provide me studies as references. I was already aware of this research and was actively looking for someone that might be able to do this for me. It’s just hard to find people that do it because it is a controversial service.

it's also hard to find people willing to do CRISPR edits on embryos...

look, you appear to have made your mind up. good luck!

I have not decided yet, because I’m not sure how to evaluate whether some random company offering the service is credible. This is categorically different than CRISPR because nothing is being changed. I’m just looking at additional information.

The service is likely not credible, because otherwise we'd have a commercially available 23andme-like service that would assess IQ for adults based on genetics. Since we don't have a good mapping in adults where one can evaluate/compare the data, anything for unborn embryos is not likely to be any more accurate than a coin toss.

But as mentioned, you have to pick *some* embryo to go first. if $40,000 isn't important to you (maybe you'd have to forgo a second birkin bag this year), or if you feel good about paying to contribute to commercial research endeavors then sure, proceed. sometimes there is enough material left after the PGD to do a secondary analysis, sometimes there isn't.

I paid about $20,000 extra to participate in a shared risk IVF program, not because I wanted/needed to get my money back, but because there was a streamlined process to do another (up to 6) round of IVF if I didn't get to a live birth. The house won financially, but I got my desired live birth. everyone walked away happy. You're asking if $40,000 for an experimental, unvalidated service is worth it. Only you can answer that. Maybe also get a tarot reading for each embryo and see which one has the best reading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so normal PGS on a batch of embryos is $5-8,000.

1) you're talking about trusting a unknown startup with a critical medical test that you cannot do-over, at a cost 5-9 times what a regular PGS should be

2) if you're considering this on already extant embryos, you are likely going to kill the whole batch with the thaw/sample/freeze process. people only consider doing this when there is a deadly genetic issue that they are trying to avoid.

3) economic status is still the best predictor of success. invest the $40k now in a 529, provide love and support to whatever kids you get.

They are analyzing the SNP data from the lab where my clinic sent the biopsy samples. This company also collects DNA from both of the parents and then uses the SNP to reconstruct the entire genome for every embryo. I don’t need to biopsy again, I already have the data needed to analyze this information. Yes, parental SES is the best predictor of life outcomes, but genes matter. There are already studies that have been conducted (and replicated) where researchers used genetic scores to predict social mobility and economic success among siblings.

Gullible much?

You are not up to date on the research. https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1801238115
These people did not provide me studies as references. I was already aware of this research and was actively looking for someone that might be able to do this for me. It’s just hard to find people that do it because it is a controversial service.

Gullible weenie.

[Anonymous]

I have a high iq kid, but he has a language processing disorder that has him flunking Spanish and the only reason he gets by in English is because they don’t count his atrocious spelling against him. IQ is just one part of academic success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a high iq kid, but he has a language processing disorder that has him flunking Spanish and the only reason he gets by in English is because they don’t count his atrocious spelling against him. IQ is just one part of academic success.

That is a fair point. Do you think it’s worth the money assuming it works though?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a high iq kid, but he has a language processing disorder that has him flunking Spanish and the only reason he gets by in English is because they don’t count his atrocious spelling against him. IQ is just one part of academic success.

That is a fair point. Do you think it’s worth the money assuming it works though?

no.

[Anonymous]

"We also found mothers’ education-linked genetics predicted their children’s attainment over and above the children’s own genetics"

But sure pay $40k anyway.

[Anonymous]

OP is likely a shill for whatever business they will soon be posting on here. DCUM is the perfect target audience for such anxious striving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP is likely a shill for whatever business they will soon be posting on here. DCUM is the perfect target audience for such anxious striving.

Hah. Hadn't thought of that. This thread gives me the absolute creeps like no other.

[Anonymous]

For some reason, PT Barnum entered my thoughts.

[Anonymous]

If your kid ends up stupid, which I'm betting it likely will based on your original post, do you get a refund?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your kid ends up stupid, which I'm betting it likely will based on your original post, do you get a refund?

No that is not how this works. It is a probabilistic estimate. It is more likely to work out better than having kids the natural way. Why leave things up to random chance when you don’t have to anymore. Eventually most people will be doing (embryo selection) and the people who don’t will be seen as antiquated and backwards. People spend absurd amounts of money on private school, tutoring, etc. I don’t see how this is any different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid ends up stupid, which I'm betting it likely will based on your original post, do you get a refund?

No that is not how this works. It is a probabilistic estimate. It is more likely to work out better than having kids the natural way. Why leave things up to random chance when you don’t have to anymore. Eventually most people will be doing (embryo selection) and the people who don’t will be seen as antiquated and backwards. People spend absurd amounts of money on private school, tutoring, etc. I don’t see how this is any different.

GATTACA.

I've got some probabilistic estimates right here on who is going to win the NBA playoffs. $40K and they're yours

[Anonymous]

Oh FFS. I am not going to read this whole thread, and I'm guessing y'all have explained the world to OP already.

But OP -- yes you are being scammed, and even if you weren't, 2-3 points doesn't matter.