It is nonsense. Your husband is either a jerk who has everyone fooled, and/or you guys are really bad at communicating. But for the of us, it’s nonsense. |
It's more than cringe. It's shameful and embarrassing for the writer. Using the vernacular of the truly oppressed to whine about partners not carrying their weight (in their view). |
As a dad, I'm deeply grateful for a lot in my marriage, but the fact that we're mostly on the same page about what's "needed" is one of the most important. |
I agree a lot of this list is super condescending but there’s some real truth to it. In my marriage, and the marriage of most of my friends the saying “he does his best and I do the rest” is 100 percent the case. It’s not that the dads don’t do anything, it’s that they view virtually everything as optional or extra credit. If my husband gets busy at work or wants to travel, he does that. If one of our kids has extra needs, that’s a problem mom will solve regardless of whether she also works or what else she has going on. My husband is not a bad guy and will laugh about both our moms raving how wonderful he is for taking a child to a physical (scheduled by mom, Who is at work and needs to be there because she handled the sick days last week because dad “can’t” reschedule any meetings) but he is still totally guilty of kicking anything hard or inconvenient to me. He knows that I will always always always find a way to do the things I think are important for the kids so he can just say “I can’t” guilt free.
Also this one reminded me of DCUM: If I do a task incorrectly, people will tell my partner to praise me for trying. |
I get that most men will be able to say "no, of course not" to many items on this list. I know my DH would.
The point is that if you then applied the list to me, literally none of these are true. Like does my DH cook about half the time? Yes, it's great! But so do I, plus I am the only person who has ever registered our kids for school, camp, or booked a doctors or dentists appointment for them. And the whole list is like that. There will be an item that of course doesn't apply to my husband, he's way better than that. But then there will be five items where I'm like "well... yeah." And it's actually way better than it used to be! The ones that really hit home to me are anything related to pregnancy, childbirth, and caring for a baby. Things were so fundamentally unequal in ways that are clearly outlined on this list. Like I remember begging my DH to be involved in finding childcare for our baby and he just kept saying "I don't know, you're better at this kind of thing, what's the point when you know more about it already, etc." He really did just assume I'd take care of it, and I did, because we needed freaking childcare! I had PPD and he was so checked out on that. The stuff about him not understanding or seeming to care about the physical and mental toll that childbirth had taken on me (I had a traumatic birth) really hit home. He was deeply selfish when I gave birth and in the weeks after that, he did so many of the selfish, entitled crap on this list. I'm glad so many of you are better men or married to better men, but I'm not. It got better as I talked to him about it, pointed out these inequities, forced him to do things, refused to do other things, etc. Also, our kid got older and he was so uncomfortable with so much of the baby stuff, it's a bit easier with older kids which I think my DH (and other men) find less "emasculating" than caring for a newborn. Look, I love my husband and there are many ways in which he is a great partner. But going through this list actually hits home for me how many tasks there are that I do without every being asked or taught, and he just... doesn't. Including a lot of tasks that I have tried to shift to him and asked him to do, and had him either refuse or say "I don't know how, you are better at it." As though I was born understanding how and when to book pediatric appointments or have some special internal clock that tells me when our kid needs new shoes. I don't. It's just that I take those responsibilities on as a parent who knows these are things that must be done, and he has the *privilege* of assuming I'll do it. But apparently you are all in very egalitarian marriages where none of this applies. Good for you, but not all of us are, and trust me, no one is calling out my DH, even in our progressive friend and family circle, for most of it. He is not an outlier. Many men are this way. |
I have literally never heard anyone ever wonder why a dad isn’t earning more or say any version of anything you quoted. It’s really hard to believe this has happened to you more than once if at all. Or you hang out with total jerks. What I do hear constantly is women who are judged as being bad moms for working AND other moms who are judged for being lazy because the SAH. Every choice a mom makes is fair game for judgement. You have no idea what you are talking about. |
Totally agree. "He does his best and I do the rest" is absolutely how my marriage and those of pretty much all my friends work. "His best" can vary a bit, but I only know one marriage where I genuinely think the dad is the primary parent and is doing "the rest" and he's a SAHD and his wife is an executive and they have one kid. I think this is the dirty secret of most dual income couples. It looks pretty equal from the outside -- both partners work, they say the right things, dad is visibly doing stuff like taking kids to activities, cooking, seems engaged. But if you open things up and really look at what is happening, dad is taking kids to activities that mom (who also works) researched, arranged, and provided dad with the schedule for. Dad is cooking but so is mom, and mom is also thinking a week ahead to when her MIL is in town and suggesting they make and freeze an extra casserole so they have a quick dinner for the night she arrives. Mom doesn't always seem engaged, because she's exhausted and has a laundry list of things in her head to keep track of (including laundry). But the veneer of "things are pretty equal!" is there because it's easier on everyone's ego and it keeps the ship afloat. You could nag and nitpick dad to death but he's never, ever going to do as much as mom. Ever. If you don't want to ruin your marriage and get a divorce, which most of us don't, you just accept the inequity and move on. But it's unequal. Very, very unequal. |
Interesting. So when someone looks at this list and says "huh, does not apply to my husband at all," that means the list is nonsense and has no relevancy. But when some of us say, "well actually this is raising some good points that are directly relevant to my marriage," we're just random outliers who married particularly bad men, or have poor communication skills (huh, funny how suddenly it's MY fault fault my DH was a selfish a$$ when we had a newborn, I wonder why that is) and it's not representative. If you have a perfect egalitarian marriage, congrats! Pretending that's the norm is dumb. It's not. There is absolutely truth to this list. |
In what universe do only men edit papers? How bizarre. And I am a woman and I do most of these things. The point is that incompetence is never attractive. Imagine not knowing how to do a large trash pickup, when trash day is, etc. |
Agree. It's not 1950 anymore. My husband is 100% equal parent and spouse. Other than giving birth and breastfeeding, he handles just as much as I do. Plus he usually does so with less anxiety and worry, so he is happier while doing child raising and household tasks. |
DP. I've never met a man who cared if his wife could handle a large trash pickup or clean out a mousetrap. I've known plenty of women who could, probably most, but I've never sat around with my dad friends wondering why our wives aren't the ones cleaning up dead animals around the house. |
If true, absolutely the exception. Last month I asked my DH if he would please set up our kids' summer doctor and dentist appointments (because they book up crazy early and if we don't book them in April we won't get a spot) and he basically went into a cold sweat, spent 4 minutes on the computer looking at our pediatrician's website (after asking me "what the name of the peds office again") and then asked me to do it. But good for your DH. Many more men are like mine. |
“I’m oppressed because DH doesn’t think a week ahead to freeze a casserole for MIL” isn’t quite the own you think it is. That is you concerned about appearances and looking on top of things lest MIL judge you. |
What this discussion tells me that we all live in a bubble, and have different experiences that color our understanding of the world. Different strata of society seem to have different expectations on men and women.
I do think women tend to do too much, men are very good at delegating. I do notice, as a DW, that my DH stepped in when he judged me less than competent at certain tasks, thus making my life easier. Things have also shifted quite a bit as the kids have gotten older (he somehow did rise to the occasion and now handles all logistics related to their sports activities, and I'm now the clueless parent, so I know what that feels like). The newborn stage, though? The nursing and maternity leave? So lonely, and that's when it hits you, how on your own you are at this, and your partner doesn't really get it. It's not anyone's fault, but it does feel 100 percent unfair. |
I am a wife and exclusively handle garbage pick up, including bulk pickup. I also manage the yard and do most of the small repairs around the house, and book someone if it's beyond my ability. I make sure the filters around the house get changed regularly, and I handle oil changes and gasing up the car, plus I'm the only one who ever vacuums out the car or wipes down the interior. But go ahead and ask my husband about the last time he booked a hotel for a vacation, volunteered at the kid's school, spoke to our child's doctor, cut our child's fingernails, arranged camp or any childcare, etc.? The answer is either "years" or "never." The reason women sit around talking about how men never do a lot of this stuff is because men truly never do it. You guys can't sit around talking about how women aren't doing these supposedly "manly" tasks because most of you aren't doing them! My DH has never, ever cleaned up a dead animal around the house! We recently had a vent cover fall off the exterior of the house and bird set up a nest in there and I handled the whole damn thing -- getting the nest out, attaching a new cover, etc. DH said he'd do it but then said he didn't know where to start and could I help, and in the end he just stood around while I did it. |