How to appeal CES decision

[Anonymous]

2022- 2023 school year. I am tired. Teachers are. I left MCPS last year but CES definitely is not just a "lottery." All eligible students are rated. It is hard to believe that parents in the Wooton cluster who can afford the houses believe that it is.

[Anonymous]

Curious… why and how does having a 504 affect the thresholds? I assume the 504 has to be for something specific to testing? My kid has a 504 for anxiety but still tests well. Does having a plan change the threshold he’ll need?

[Anonymous]

85% and above, that student should be entered in lottery. % could be higher in other clusters. And folks, let's get real, it's not OnLY based on numbers, because if it were, ALL students in Wootton would be entered based on the data people report in these discussions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is also teacher input that goes into lottery decision.

Not true.

It is true. I used to be an MCPS teacher and scored students for the CES program many times

Teachers haven’t been involved in four years. Your experience is dated and no longer accurate.

I disagree. In the past 3 years, I’ve had 2 kids put in the lottery and was told teacher input was part of the decision in addition to MAP scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was pre covid, so take it with a grain of salt, but I filed an appeal and wrote a letter explaining my child’s traits that made the CES a good fit for them, and I included a writing sample my child had written for fun. It really showcased DC’s creativity, vocabulary and passion for writing. The appeal was successful and DC was then placed in the waitpool. IMO, the writing sample probably had more sway than my letter, but I guess I’ll never know for sure. DC’s number was later randomly chosen and DC was admitted to the CES and did well there. Good luck.

There was no lottery pre-covid for CES so this doesn’t make any sense. This year’s 7th graders were selected for CES in Spring 2020 not by lottery. This year’s 6th graders were the first kids to be selected by lottery into CES in 2021, which was not pre covid.

I think PP means that their child went into the waitpool and was selected. MCPS hasn't always been clear, but the CES waitpool may not have been ranked. That is, it was a "lottery" off the waitpool even pre-covid. So, the first round was hand-picked but all subsequent rounds were random from the waitpool.

I’m that pp, and yes, this is exactly the scenario I was talking about. The waitpool wasn’t ranked even before all admission was by lottery. After the first round of admissions, students were randomly chosen from the waitpool. My dc wasn’t initially admitted or placed in the waitpool, but our appeal was successful and dc was placed in the waitpool before the second round of acceptances. DC was then randomly selected for admission.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Curious… why and how does having a 504 affect the thresholds? I assume the 504 has to be for something specific to testing? My kid has a 504 for anxiety but still tests well. Does having a plan change the threshold he’ll need?

Per the info provided by DCCAPS & AEI, receiving services frim any of the four categories (IEP, 504, EML and FARMS; no discernment among or within them) results in a reduced MAP-R local norm threshold. From reports to the BOE, it appears that that is 70th %ile (instead of 85th) -- again, locally normed, not the national %ile parents see on the report. The local norm is not disclosed by MCPS central admin, but might be guessed within a school or among similar schools as parents discuss scores of their children, some who were placed in the pool and some who were not.

The fact that all services are treated the same, regardless of nature/severity of the underlying condition and likely influence on score, is among the limitations of the paradigm. It would not be feasible to cover every wrinkle, but this and others might feasibly be addressed in a better manner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is also teacher input that goes into lottery decision.

Not true.

It is true. I used to be an MCPS teacher and scored students for the CES program many times

Teachers haven’t been involved in four years. Your experience is dated and no longer accurate.

I disagree. In the past 3 years, I’ve had 2 kids put in the lottery and was told teacher input was part of the decision in addition to MAP scores.

You’re welcome to disagree but it’s been widely publicized that teacher recommendations are by longer part of the equation so you are wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was pre covid, so take it with a grain of salt, but I filed an appeal and wrote a letter explaining my child’s traits that made the CES a good fit for them, and I included a writing sample my child had written for fun. It really showcased DC’s creativity, vocabulary and passion for writing. The appeal was successful and DC was then placed in the waitpool. IMO, the writing sample probably had more sway than my letter, but I guess I’ll never know for sure. DC’s number was later randomly chosen and DC was admitted to the CES and did well there. Good luck.

There was no lottery pre-covid for CES so this doesn’t make any sense. This year’s 7th graders were selected for CES in Spring 2020 not by lottery. This year’s 6th graders were the first kids to be selected by lottery into CES in 2021, which was not pre covid.

I think PP means that their child went into the waitpool and was selected. MCPS hasn't always been clear, but the CES waitpool may not have been ranked. That is, it was a "lottery" off the waitpool even pre-covid. So, the first round was hand-picked but all subsequent rounds were random from the waitpool.

MCPS actually was clear about this. Pre-COVID, the waitlist was indeed a lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is also teacher input that goes into lottery decision.

Not true.

It is true. I used to be an MCPS teacher and scored students for the CES program many times

No it’s not true. It used to be true but it has not been for several years so your “used to be” experience is not relevant to what is happening today.

It was LAST YEAR! I rated children for the program LAST YEAR. They definitely still have teachers rate the students across multiple points. Maybe they stopped telling wacko parents that it is part of the process. You know less than you pretend to know

You are thinking of the SIPPI identification process, not the CES process. SIPPI identification is meaningless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is also teacher input that goes into lottery decision.

Not true.

It is true. I used to be an MCPS teacher and scored students for the CES program many times

No it’s not true. It used to be true but it has not been for several years so your “used to be” experience is not relevant to what is happening today.

It was LAST YEAR! I rated children for the program LAST YEAR. They definitely still have teachers rate the students across multiple points. Maybe they stopped telling wacko parents that it is part of the process. You know less than you pretend to know

DP. Tell us which school, if so. This is not at all a part of the current process, as communicated/understood/documented.

Separate from the CES lottery is SIPPI (GT identification), which does have teacher/staff input as one of the identifying parameters. Could you be thinking of that?

Nope. Wootton cluster for Cold Spring. All third grade teachers rated the kids with numbers across multiple areas last year 2023- 24. I'm sure they did it this year too. Even if it is a "lottery," they aren't going to choose kids who have low scores

It’s a lottery among kids who qualify. You still have to get into the pool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is also teacher input that goes into lottery decision.

Not true.

It is true. I used to be an MCPS teacher and scored students for the CES program many times

No it’s not true. It used to be true but it has not been for several years so your “used to be” experience is not relevant to what is happening today.

It was LAST YEAR! I rated children for the program LAST YEAR. They definitely still have teachers rate the students across multiple points. Maybe they stopped telling wacko parents that it is part of the process. You know less than you pretend to know

You are thinking of the SIPPI identification process, not the CES process. SIPPI identification is meaningless.

That’s correct. The gifted and talented identification includes teacher ratings. CES does not. Jeez, if the teachers don’t even understand the difference what hope do we have!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was pre covid, so take it with a grain of salt, but I filed an appeal and wrote a letter explaining my child’s traits that made the CES a good fit for them, and I included a writing sample my child had written for fun. It really showcased DC’s creativity, vocabulary and passion for writing. The appeal was successful and DC was then placed in the waitpool. IMO, the writing sample probably had more sway than my letter, but I guess I’ll never know for sure. DC’s number was later randomly chosen and DC was admitted to the CES and did well there. Good luck.

Had a similar experience where dc should have been in the pool but was not. His test scores were all well within the range. I believe he was blackballed by administration. Wrote a letter of appeal. He was moved to wait list and accepted. It made an enormous difference in his subsequent academic career.

Because blackballing makes life so much easier for admin? WTF sort of life do you live?

It's not as if it made life any harder, given that all that happened was OP's kid transferring out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Curious… why and how does having a 504 affect the thresholds? I assume the 504 has to be for something specific to testing? My kid has a 504 for anxiety but still tests well. Does having a plan change the threshold he’ll need?

Per the info provided by DCCAPS & AEI, receiving services frim any of the four categories (IEP, 504, EML and FARMS; no discernment among or within them) results in a reduced MAP-R local norm threshold. From reports to the BOE, it appears that that is 70th %ile (instead of 85th) -- again, locally normed, not the national %ile parents see on the report. The local norm is not disclosed by MCPS central admin, but might be guessed within a school or among similar schools as parents discuss scores of their children, some who were placed in the pool and some who were not.

The fact that all services are treated the same, regardless of nature/severity of the underlying condition and likely influence on score, is among the limitations of the paradigm. It would not be feasible to cover every wrinkle, but this and others might feasibly be addressed in a better manner.

I’m the poster you quoted, and while of course I love that this benefits my kid, that doesn’t seem fair whatsoever. Just because my kid has anxiety, they have a better chance at the CES? Huh. I would not have thought that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is hard to believe that parents in the Wooton cluster who can afford the houses believe that it is.

What's so odd about parents believing MCPS when it describes the process as not involving teacher input? Would you prefer it if parents believed MCPS did other things it gives no indication or visible evidence of doing? What's your opinion of PP's claim of their SC being "blackballed", for example?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is also teacher input that goes into lottery decision.

Not true.

It is true. I used to be an MCPS teacher and scored students for the CES program many times

Teachers haven’t been involved in four years. Your experience is dated and no longer accurate.

I disagree. In the past 3 years, I’ve had 2 kids put in the lottery and was told teacher input was part of the decision in addition to MAP scores.

Right. They will tell you no teacher input so parents are not pissed at the teacher when their kid doesn't get in to CES. But teacher input counts, after all, they see your kid for several hours each day, know their classroom academic performances, and peer interactions.