This story of loan forgiveness does not sit well with me

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s infuriating. I know some people personally who quit their good paying… but “boring”… jobs to pursue their passions and now live off welfare. At least they don’t live near me so I know my money isn’t going to them

Funny how people get infuriated at people with modest incomes scamming the system but shrug their shoulders at people scamming billions of dollars from taxpayer coffers.

The late billionaire Sheldon Adelson, for example, used a complicated trust mechanism called a “grantor retained annuity trust (GRAT)” to “pass on $7.9 billion to his children while avoiding $2.8 billion in gift and estate taxes.”

All smart wealthy people use trusts (and other means) to legally pass on their estates while avoiding estate taxes. Fact is that money was already taxed once, there is absolutely no reason it should be taxed again to transfer it to your kids. Fact is there are plenty of legal ways to avoid this and have been for decades.

We earned our money, 95%+ of it as W2 income and taxed at the highest rate. Absolutely no reason for the govt to take 40-50% (fed and state) of it when we die.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG -- I wish someone would create a chart that compares the "cost" of student loan forgiveness against the cost of tax breaks for the wealthy and corporations.

Why do Americans think it's totally unfair to forgive student loans but it's totally fine that most US corporations pay almost nothing in taxes?

When Republicans eliminate taxes for the super rich and for corporations, everyone shrugs.

When Democrats eliminate crippling student loan debt for a few thousand people, everyone goes nuts.

Explain it to me like I'm 5.

Easy. The crippling student loan debt for a few thousand people is only crippling because those few thousand people refuse to work harder and get better paying jobs. Anyone with a moral compass takes responsibility for their decisions and holds themselves accountable. Disappointing to have to coexist with people that constantly take the self-indulgent path.

or they chose to take ridiculous amount of loans that are not commensurate with their major/job prospects. All states have good state schools that cost only $25-30K currently. Your good student can get some merit at several of them. Take 5.5K in federal subsidized loans, earn $10K (student) over the year. Now you owe $10-15K for the year. If your parents cannot help with that, then you need to search for a college that gives you more merit.
But if you choose to take out money that you cannot really afford to get a degree that does not pay well, then that is on you. But there are options for college to not put you into any more debt than $27K (total for 4 years). Then you can choose to live frugally for another 2-4 years and make a huge dent in those loans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s infuriating. I know some people personally who quit their good paying… but “boring”… jobs to pursue their passions and now live off welfare. At least they don’t live near me so I know my money isn’t going to them

Funny how people get infuriated at people with modest incomes scamming the system but shrug their shoulders at people scamming billions of dollars from taxpayer coffers.

The late billionaire Sheldon Adelson, for example, used a complicated trust mechanism called a “grantor retained annuity trust (GRAT)” to “pass on $7.9 billion to his children while avoiding $2.8 billion in gift and estate taxes.”

All smart wealthy people use trusts (and other means) to legally pass on their estates while avoiding estate taxes. Fact is that money was already taxed once, there is absolutely no reason it should be taxed again to transfer it to your kids. Fact is there are plenty of legal ways to avoid this and have been for decades.

We earned our money, 95%+ of it as W2 income and taxed at the highest rate. Absolutely no reason for the govt to take 40-50% (fed and state) of it when we die.

That's your opinion, not a fact. Plenty of advanced economies tax estates at a far higher rate, and their societies are more equal and more harmonious for it. My opinion is that we don't need to have billionaires passing on the bulk of their megafortunes to their heirs tax free while there are hungry children in America who could benefit from better social welfare supports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Outliers are everywhere. Look at the big picture, not the person the journalist thought would get the most clicks.

Agree with this. I like the student loan forgiveness. And I speak as someone who was able to pay off my loans AND pay for my kids college. I am fortunate and I realize that

I'm all for some loan forgiveness. But kids and parents need to STOP taking out $$$ to attend schools they cannot afford. If you cannot afford more than $25K/year, then don't attend a school that costs $90k+/year and take loans. Find a state school that gives you merit/private that gives merit and have your kid work FT on all breaks and PT during the year where they can earn 10K per year easily.

But I don't see why I should be paying for someone who choose to got to a school that costs $65K per year, major in Art history, then only be able to get a job making $25K/year and complain they cannot pay their loans. No Shit Sherlock! Common sense would have told them that they would most likely only start at $25-30K, and therefore should not have loans totally anymore than $25K over 4 years.

There has to be some personal responsibility for people. College can be done without massive debt, you just have to choose wisely.

And I don’t understand why corporations can bankruptcy and never pay their bills.

Then turn around and restructure under a new name and continuing as if nothing happened.

Don’t be a d!ck pay your bills.

Yes everyone should pay their bills.

But the argument that Corporations do it, so I as an individual should be able to not pay my bills isn't a strong one.
Take personal responsibility. If you are smart enough for college, then you should be able to understand A) what your average starting salary will be for possible majors and B) how taking loans works and what your monthly payments will be for 10 year+ after graduation. If not, perhaps you shouldn't be at college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stop making moral judgments when critiquing policy decisions. For all you know the guy already paid the principal of the loan many times over.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Outliers are everywhere. Look at the big picture, not the person the journalist thought would get the most clicks.

Agree with this. I like the student loan forgiveness. And I speak as someone who was able to pay off my loans AND pay for my kids college. I am fortunate and I realize that

I'm all for some loan forgiveness. But kids and parents need to STOP taking out $$$ to attend schools they cannot afford. If you cannot afford more than $25K/year, then don't attend a school that costs $90k+/year and take loans. Find a state school that gives you merit/private that gives merit and have your kid work FT on all breaks and PT during the year where they can earn 10K per year easily.

But I don't see why I should be paying for someone who choose to got to a school that costs $65K per year, major in Art history, then only be able to get a job making $25K/year and complain they cannot pay their loans. No Shit Sherlock! Common sense would have told them that they would most likely only start at $25-30K, and therefore should not have loans totally anymore than $25K over 4 years.

There has to be some personal responsibility for people. College can be done without massive debt, you just have to choose wisely.

And I don’t understand why corporations can bankruptcy and never pay their bills.

Then turn around and restructure under a new name and continuing as if nothing happened.

Don’t be a d!ck pay your bills.

Yes everyone should pay their bills.

But the argument that Corporations do it, so I as an individual should be able to not pay my bills isn't a strong one.
Take personal responsibility. If you are smart enough for college, then you should be able to understand A) what your average starting salary will be for possible majors and B) how taking loans works and what your monthly payments will be for 10 year+ after graduation. If not, perhaps you shouldn't be at college

Except student loans should not be treated any different than other forms of debt in personal bankruptcies.

If student loans were treated as normal debt, the market would be far more rational because the lender would know that a borrower could have the debt significantly reduced in a bankruptcy situation. Credit standards and amounts would be much different.

[Anonymous]

Just wait until you find out what the banks got as relief in 2009.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s infuriating. I know some people personally who quit their good paying… but “boring”… jobs to pursue their passions and now live off welfare. At least they don’t live near me so I know my money isn’t going to them

Funny how people get infuriated at people with modest incomes scamming the system but shrug their shoulders at people scamming billions of dollars from taxpayer coffers.

The late billionaire Sheldon Adelson, for example, used a complicated trust mechanism called a “grantor retained annuity trust (GRAT)” to “pass on $7.9 billion to his children while avoiding $2.8 billion in gift and estate taxes.”

All smart wealthy people use trusts (and other means) to legally pass on their estates while avoiding estate taxes. Fact is that money was already taxed once, there is absolutely no reason it should be taxed again to transfer it to your kids. Fact is there are plenty of legal ways to avoid this and have been for decades.

We earned our money, 95%+ of it as W2 income and taxed at the highest rate. Absolutely no reason for the govt to take 40-50% (fed and state) of it when we die.

That's your opinion, not a fact. Plenty of advanced economies tax estates at a far higher rate, and their societies are more equal and more harmonious for it. My opinion is that we don't need to have billionaires passing on the bulk of their megafortunes to their heirs tax free while there are hungry children in America who could benefit from better social welfare supports.

See above. Happy to pay my taxes once. I've paid more in State taxes in a SINGLE year than most people will earn in a lifetime. I've already contributed to social welfare programs and happily support them. I'm not a billionaire totally avoiding taxes. Most of our income is W2 or interest and some cap gains. We have no way to shelter it legally, so we pay high taxes yearly. I donate to several organizations of my choosing to locally support at an even better level. But still do not support the govt taxing my money a 2nd time and will utilize all tools possible to avoid that.

I also still believe people should take some responsibility for themselves, and that includes not overpaying for college and expecting others to subsidize you. When it is totally possible to get a good education that is AFFORDABLE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Outliers are everywhere. Look at the big picture, not the person the journalist thought would get the most clicks.

Agree with this. I like the student loan forgiveness. And I speak as someone who was able to pay off my loans AND pay for my kids college. I am fortunate and I realize that

I'm all for some loan forgiveness. But kids and parents need to STOP taking out $$$ to attend schools they cannot afford. If you cannot afford more than $25K/year, then don't attend a school that costs $90k+/year and take loans. Find a state school that gives you merit/private that gives merit and have your kid work FT on all breaks and PT during the year where they can earn 10K per year easily.

But I don't see why I should be paying for someone who choose to got to a school that costs $65K per year, major in Art history, then only be able to get a job making $25K/year and complain they cannot pay their loans. No Shit Sherlock! Common sense would have told them that they would most likely only start at $25-30K, and therefore should not have loans totally anymore than $25K over 4 years.

There has to be some personal responsibility for people. College can be done without massive debt, you just have to choose wisely.

And I don’t understand why corporations can bankruptcy and never pay their bills.

Then turn around and restructure under a new name and continuing as if nothing happened.

Don’t be a d!ck pay your bills.

Yes everyone should pay their bills.

But the argument that Corporations do it, so I as an individual should be able to not pay my bills isn't a strong one.
Take personal responsibility. If you are smart enough for college, then you should be able to understand A) what your average starting salary will be for possible majors and B) how taking loans works and what your monthly payments will be for 10 year+ after graduation. If not, perhaps you shouldn't be at college

Corporation should still pay their bills and stop declaring bankruptcy and being forgiven bills.

If you spend the money, you have to pay it back, And you can’t just start a new corporation with no debt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s infuriating. I know some people personally who quit their good paying… but “boring”… jobs to pursue their passions and now live off welfare. At least they don’t live near me so I know my money isn’t going to them

Funny how people get infuriated at people with modest incomes scamming the system but shrug their shoulders at people scamming billions of dollars from taxpayer coffers.

The late billionaire Sheldon Adelson, for example, used a complicated trust mechanism called a “grantor retained annuity trust (GRAT)” to “pass on $7.9 billion to his children while avoiding $2.8 billion in gift and estate taxes.”

All smart wealthy people use trusts (and other means) to legally pass on their estates while avoiding estate taxes. Fact is that money was already taxed once, there is absolutely no reason it should be taxed again to transfer it to your kids. Fact is there are plenty of legal ways to avoid this and have been for decades.

We earned our money, 95%+ of it as W2 income and taxed at the highest rate. Absolutely no reason for the govt to take 40-50% (fed and state) of it when we die.

That's your opinion, not a fact. Plenty of advanced economies tax estates at a far higher rate, and their societies are more equal and more harmonious for it. My opinion is that we don't need to have billionaires passing on the bulk of their megafortunes to their heirs tax free while there are hungry children in America who could benefit from better social welfare supports.

See above. Happy to pay my taxes once. I've paid more in State taxes in a SINGLE year than most people will earn in a lifetime. I've already contributed to social welfare programs and happily support them. I'm not a billionaire totally avoiding taxes. Most of our income is W2 or interest and some cap gains. We have no way to shelter it legally, so we pay high taxes yearly. I donate to several organizations of my choosing to locally support at an even better level. But still do not support the govt taxing my money a 2nd time and will utilize all tools possible to avoid that.

I also still believe people should take some responsibility for themselves, and that includes not overpaying for college and expecting others to subsidize you. When it is totally possible to get a good education that is AFFORDABLE.

Fix bankruptcy laws first

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He knew he had to get a better paying job to repay the loan, but he didn't want to give up his passion, which was music.

Now that his almost $250K loan has been paid by us taxpayers, he says he wants to go meditate in India with a guru.

Like what the actual f*.

my nephew has a mild SN and had a hard time finding a job after college; he majored in IT. He found a lowish paying job (like $45K) at a nonprofit and is still paying it off while he lives with his single mom because he can't afford to live on his own and pay off the debt. But, the government didn't pay his debt off. I think it's like $50K. Here's someone who's trying and working a job that has potential for growth, even as he has a hard time of it, and then there's this guy with his music passion, and now he can go meditate because we taxpayers basically gave him $250K.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/gen-xer-got-250-000-181801554.html

Yea, I feel bitter.

Corps have their debt erased all the time, on top of tax breaks and low tax rates. I have no problem with loan forgiveness. Education should not cost as much as it does, to start with.

-signed, someone who paid of undergrad and law school loans (and never worked in a firm with big firm money)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s infuriating. I know some people personally who quit their good paying… but “boring”… jobs to pursue their passions and now live off welfare. At least they don’t live near me so I know my money isn’t going to them

Funny how people get infuriated at people with modest incomes scamming the system but shrug their shoulders at people scamming billions of dollars from taxpayer coffers.

The late billionaire Sheldon Adelson, for example, used a complicated trust mechanism called a “grantor retained annuity trust (GRAT)” to “pass on $7.9 billion to his children while avoiding $2.8 billion in gift and estate taxes.”

All smart wealthy people use trusts (and other means) to legally pass on their estates while avoiding estate taxes. Fact is that money was already taxed once, there is absolutely no reason it should be taxed again to transfer it to your kids. Fact is there are plenty of legal ways to avoid this and have been for decades.

We earned our money, 95%+ of it as W2 income and taxed at the highest rate. Absolutely no reason for the govt to take 40-50% (fed and state) of it when we die.

That's your opinion, not a fact. Plenty of advanced economies tax estates at a far higher rate, and their societies are more equal and more harmonious for it. My opinion is that we don't need to have billionaires passing on the bulk of their megafortunes to their heirs tax free while there are hungry children in America who could benefit from better social welfare supports.

See above. Happy to pay my taxes once. I've paid more in State taxes in a SINGLE year than most people will earn in a lifetime. I've already contributed to social welfare programs and happily support them. I'm not a billionaire totally avoiding taxes. Most of our income is W2 or interest and some cap gains. We have no way to shelter it legally, so we pay high taxes yearly. I donate to several organizations of my choosing to locally support at an even better level. But still do not support the govt taxing my money a 2nd time and will utilize all tools possible to avoid that.

I also still believe people should take some responsibility for themselves, and that includes not overpaying for college and expecting others to subsidize you. When it is totally possible to get a good education that is AFFORDABLE.

It is not "totally possible." There are many reasons why that is not "totally possible.'

I also don't gaf that you're so rich that your estate may be taxed. Literally, it is the LAST THING on all of the list of all of the things, that I would gaf about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s infuriating. I know some people personally who quit their good paying… but “boring”… jobs to pursue their passions and now live off welfare. At least they don’t live near me so I know my money isn’t going to them

Funny how people get infuriated at people with modest incomes scamming the system but shrug their shoulders at people scamming billions of dollars from taxpayer coffers.

The late billionaire Sheldon Adelson, for example, used a complicated trust mechanism called a “grantor retained annuity trust (GRAT)” to “pass on $7.9 billion to his children while avoiding $2.8 billion in gift and estate taxes.”

All smart wealthy people use trusts (and other means) to legally pass on their estates while avoiding estate taxes. Fact is that money was already taxed once, there is absolutely no reason it should be taxed again to transfer it to your kids. Fact is there are plenty of legal ways to avoid this and have been for decades.

We earned our money, 95%+ of it as W2 income and taxed at the highest rate. Absolutely no reason for the govt to take 40-50% (fed and state) of it when we die.

That's your opinion, not a fact. Plenty of advanced economies tax estates at a far higher rate, and their societies are more equal and more harmonious for it. My opinion is that we don't need to have billionaires passing on the bulk of their megafortunes to their heirs tax free while there are hungry children in America who could benefit from better social welfare supports.

See above. Happy to pay my taxes once. I've paid more in State taxes in a SINGLE year than most people will earn in a lifetime. I've already contributed to social welfare programs and happily support them. I'm not a billionaire totally avoiding taxes. Most of our income is W2 or interest and some cap gains. We have no way to shelter it legally, so we pay high taxes yearly. I donate to several organizations of my choosing to locally support at an even better level. But still do not support the govt taxing my money a 2nd time and will utilize all tools possible to avoid that.

I also still believe people should take some responsibility for themselves, and that includes not overpaying for college and expecting others to subsidize you. When it is totally possible to get a good education that is AFFORDABLE.

The fact that you pay more state taxes in a single year than most people will earn in a lifetime and are still so stingy about estate taxes is pretty sad. Taxes are the price we pay to live in a civilized society. Mark Cuban said it well this year:
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/15/how-much-mark-cuban-pays-in-taxes.html

While you may be annoyed about paying taxes, billionaire Mark Cuban says he’s happy to pay the $275.9 million he owes for 2023.

“I pay what I owe,” Cuban wrote on social media site X on Sunday. “This country has done so much for me, I’m proud to pay my taxes every single year.”

Cuban confirmed with CNBC Make It on Monday that his $275.9 million tax bill was “wired today.”

“We only get to be entrepreneurs and enjoy the freedoms we have because of the men and women who dedicate their lives to protecting our country,” he tells CNBC Make It. “They deserve every penny they get and my taxes go to support them.”

Cuban, who is also one of the stars on ABC’s “Shark Tank,” has an estimated net worth of $5.4 billion and says his tax bill is “almost all long term capital gains,” which almost certainly triggered a federal long-term capital gains tax of 20%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s infuriating. I know some people personally who quit their good paying… but “boring”… jobs to pursue their passions and now live off welfare. At least they don’t live near me so I know my money isn’t going to them

Funny how people get infuriated at people with modest incomes scamming the system but shrug their shoulders at people scamming billions of dollars from taxpayer coffers.

The late billionaire Sheldon Adelson, for example, used a complicated trust mechanism called a “grantor retained annuity trust (GRAT)” to “pass on $7.9 billion to his children while avoiding $2.8 billion in gift and estate taxes.”

All smart wealthy people use trusts (and other means) to legally pass on their estates while avoiding estate taxes. Fact is that money was already taxed once, there is absolutely no reason it should be taxed again to transfer it to your kids. Fact is there are plenty of legal ways to avoid this and have been for decades.

We earned our money, 95%+ of it as W2 income and taxed at the highest rate. Absolutely no reason for the govt to take 40-50% (fed and state) of it when we die.

That's your opinion, not a fact. Plenty of advanced economies tax estates at a far higher rate, and their societies are more equal and more harmonious for it. My opinion is that we don't need to have billionaires passing on the bulk of their megafortunes to their heirs tax free while there are hungry children in America who could benefit from better social welfare supports.

See above. Happy to pay my taxes once. I've paid more in State taxes in a SINGLE year than most people will earn in a lifetime. I've already contributed to social welfare programs and happily support them. I'm not a billionaire totally avoiding taxes. Most of our income is W2 or interest and some cap gains. We have no way to shelter it legally, so we pay high taxes yearly. I donate to several organizations of my choosing to locally support at an even better level. But still do not support the govt taxing my money a 2nd time and will utilize all tools possible to avoid that.

I also still believe people should take some responsibility for themselves, and that includes not overpaying for college and expecting others to subsidize you. When it is totally possible to get a good education that is AFFORDABLE.

I don't know many W2 employees paying more in State taxes than most people earn in a lifetime. I might believe you if you said your income was capital gains and dividends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OMG -- I wish someone would create a chart that compares the "cost" of student loan forgiveness against the cost of tax breaks for the wealthy and corporations.

Why do Americans think it's totally unfair to forgive student loans but it's totally fine that most US corporations pay almost nothing in taxes?

When Republicans eliminate taxes for the super rich and for corporations, everyone shrugs.

When Democrats eliminate crippling student loan debt for a few thousand people, everyone goes nuts.

Explain it to me like I'm 5.

I'll explain to you.

If you worked hard and tried to figure out a way to pay your debt by getting a higher paying job, then got it forgiven, that's fine.

If you did not want to get a higher paying job even though you knew you should to pay the debt, but then decided to stick it to the taxpayers and go off on a meditation vacation, then it's not fine.

Understand?