Ok can we stop saying $300k is "rich" in DC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG. So saving $70,000 a year isn't great? That's more than the average family makes! No wonder so many of you think $300,000 is barely middle class.

70k is great for a single person in their twenties or early thirties. Not so much for a family of four.

Posters above were saying that "saving" 70k was not that great -- they weren't talking about HHI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Funny how folks quote HHI. I worked on Wall Street 30 years before taking a job in the D.C. Area. Folks always would rate rank on your income alone. Spouses income and investment income etc don't count. I say a guy making 350k starts a good income, 500k is next level and a one million salary is holy grail. HHI is not a good indicator of how well someone is doing.

Also middle class is a lifestyle not an income level. My old CEO lived in same house he always lived in since his 20s and gave 90 percent of income to charity. Most of rest was a trust for kids. He lived a blue collar lifestyle complete with a small split level on a 69x100 plot. Nice guy. The year we did IPO he made more than Oprah Winfrey or any pro player or singer. Still drove a minivan. His pay was around 100 million that year. Most stock as he founded company that did IPO.

I reject these values categorically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG. So saving $70,000 a year isn't great? That's more than the average family makes! No wonder so many of you think $300,000 is barely middle class.

70k is great for a single person in their twenties or early thirties. Not so much for a family of four.

*Saving* $70k/year is great for anyone. Are you kidding?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OMG. So saving $70,000 a year isn't great? That's more than the average family makes! No wonder so many of you think $300,000 is barely middle class.

This is why I can't understand families whose gross HHI is $100,000 saying they are quite comfortable. They probably save $15,000 a year if they are frugal. That's not a lot to go towards funding a 30 year retirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG. So saving $70,000 a year isn't great? That's more than the average family makes! No wonder so many of you think $300,000 is barely middle class.

This is why I can't understand families whose gross HHI is $100,000 saying they are quite comfortable. They probably save $15,000 a year if they are frugal. That's not a lot to go towards funding a 30 year retirement.

If you gross 100k, save 15k, and let's assume taxes of 20k, then you're living off of 65k per year after taxes. Saving 15k per year in the stock market will get you about $1.5M (inflation-adjusted) after 30 years of a career. That's enough for $60k per year in retirement, which basically covers your entire lifestyle even before adding in social security and any pensions. (Plus, hopefully, you'll pay off a mortgage during that time and no longer need to spend it in retirement).

Tl;dr: saving 15k per year on 100k HHI is actually a solid plan for retirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG. So saving $70,000 a year isn't great? That's more than the average family makes! No wonder so many of you think $300,000 is barely middle class.

This is why I can't understand families whose gross HHI is $100,000 saying they are quite comfortable. They probably save $15,000 a year if they are frugal. That's not a lot to go towards funding a 30 year retirement.

Saving $15k a year will be close to $3 million over 40 years at 6.5% interest (average investment yield over time is more than 10%, so this number is conservative). Sure, $3 million might only be worth $1 million in today's dollars, but that plus SS will still yield them around $70k. That will be fine. (Don't forget that they won't be saving the $15k, so it's almost equivalent to their pre-retirement income.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG. So saving $70,000 a year isn't great? That's more than the average family makes! No wonder so many of you think $300,000 is barely middle class.

This is why I can't understand families whose gross HHI is $100,000 saying they are quite comfortable. They probably save $15,000 a year if they are frugal. That's not a lot to go towards funding a 30 year retirement.

If you gross 100k, save 15k, and let's assume taxes of 20k, then you're living off of 65k per year after taxes. Saving 15k per year in the stock market will get you about $1.5M (inflation-adjusted) after 30 years of a career. That's enough for $60k per year in retirement, which basically covers your entire lifestyle even before adding in social security and any pensions. (Plus, hopefully, you'll pay off a mortgage during that time and no longer need to spend it in retirement).

Tl;dr: saving 15k per year on 100k HHI is actually a solid plan for retirement.

I'm the PPP below you. I did the same calculation, only over 40 years. Great minds think alike!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG. So saving $70,000 a year isn't great? That's more than the average family makes! No wonder so many of you think $300,000 is barely middle class.

This is why I can't understand families whose gross HHI is $100,000 saying they are quite comfortable. They probably save $15,000 a year if they are frugal. That's not a lot to go towards funding a 30 year retirement.

Saving $15k a year will be close to $3 million over 40 years at 6.5% interest (average investment yield over time is more than 10%, so this number is conservative). Sure, $3 million might only be worth $1 million in today's dollars, but that plus SS will still yield them around $70k. That will be fine. (Don't forget that they won't be saving the $15k, so it's almost equivalent to their pre-retirement income.)

Then by this calculation I should be wealthy in retirement, since I save a lot more than $15,000 a year, have no mortgage even now and spend just over $200,000 a year, much of that on kids who will (presumably) be grown and on their own when I retire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG. So saving $70,000 a year isn't great? That's more than the average family makes! No wonder so many of you think $300,000 is barely middle class.

This is why I can't understand families whose gross HHI is $100,000 saying they are quite comfortable. They probably save $15,000 a year if they are frugal. That's not a lot to go towards funding a 30 year retirement.

Saving $15k a year will be close to $3 million over 40 years at 6.5% interest (average investment yield over time is more than 10%, so this number is conservative). Sure, $3 million might only be worth $1 million in today's dollars, but that plus SS will still yield them around $70k. That will be fine. (Don't forget that they won't be saving the $15k, so it's almost equivalent to their pre-retirement income.)

Then by this calculation I should be wealthy in retirement, since I save a lot more than $15,000 a year, have no mortgage even now and spend just over $200,000 a year, much of that on kids who will (presumably) be grown and on their own when I retire.

If you're spending 200k per year (and you don't even have a mortgage) you need to save much more than the 65k per year family in the hypo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG. So saving $70,000 a year isn't great? That's more than the average family makes! No wonder so many of you think $300,000 is barely middle class.

This is why I can't understand families whose gross HHI is $100,000 saying they are quite comfortable. They probably save $15,000 a year if they are frugal. That's not a lot to go towards funding a 30 year retirement.

Saving $15k a year will be close to $3 million over 40 years at 6.5% interest (average investment yield over time is more than 10%, so this number is conservative). Sure, $3 million might only be worth $1 million in today's dollars, but that plus SS will still yield them around $70k. That will be fine. (Don't forget that they won't be saving the $15k, so it's almost equivalent to their pre-retirement income.)

Then by this calculation I should be wealthy in retirement, since I save a lot more than $15,000 a year, have no mortgage even now and spend just over $200,000 a year, much of that on kids who will (presumably) be grown and on their own when I retire.

If you're spending 200k per year (and you don't even have a mortgage) you need to save much more than the 65k per year family in the hypo.

But my fixed expenses are about $70,000K so I'm good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG. So saving $70,000 a year isn't great? That's more than the average family makes! No wonder so many of you think $300,000 is barely middle class.

This is why I can't understand families whose gross HHI is $100,000 saying they are quite comfortable. They probably save $15,000 a year if they are frugal. That's not a lot to go towards funding a 30 year retirement.

Saving $15k a year will be close to $3 million over 40 years at 6.5% interest (average investment yield over time is more than 10%, so this number is conservative). Sure, $3 million might only be worth $1 million in today's dollars, but that plus SS will still yield them around $70k. That will be fine. (Don't forget that they won't be saving the $15k, so it's almost equivalent to their pre-retirement income.)

Then by this calculation I should be wealthy in retirement, since I save a lot more than $15,000 a year, have no mortgage even now and spend just over $200,000 a year, much of that on kids who will (presumably) be grown and on their own when I retire.

If you're spending 200k per year (and you don't even have a mortgage) you need to save much more than the 65k per year family in the hypo.

But my fixed expenses are about $70,000K so I'm good.

Oh ok, then yeah sounds like you're pretty good then. I'm guessing expensive private schools accounts for the other $130k?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG. So saving $70,000 a year isn't great? That's more than the average family makes! No wonder so many of you think $300,000 is barely middle class.

70k is great for a single person in their twenties or early thirties. Not so much for a family of four.

*Saving* $70k/year is great for anyone. Are you kidding?

It is not much savings for most. I have a decent bond portfolio, it throws off around 80k a year income. I would be spending entire paycheck plus 8k of interest to put away 72k. Plus spending all my rental income And my bonus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG. So saving $70,000 a year isn't great? That's more than the average family makes! No wonder so many of you think $300,000 is barely middle class.

70k is great for a single person in their twenties or early thirties. Not so much for a family of four.

*Saving* $70k/year is great for anyone. Are you kidding?

It is not much savings for most. I have a decent bond portfolio, it throws off around 80k a year income. I would be spending entire paycheck plus 8k of interest to put away 72k. Plus spending all my rental income And my bonus.

Most? Do you ever get out of your bubble?

[Anonymous]

In my 50s. Three kids. most of my career made @100k. Recently - last 6 years- rose to 400k - (career switch).

I do not feel rich at all. I feel like i finally have some room to breath. But now we are paying down home equity. Maxing out on 401k. Completing long-deferred maintenance on house we have had for 24 years.

Might have been different if I had been making this amount for longer. But still seems like i'm still budgeting paycheck to paycheck. Slightly complicated because $150k is in annual bonus used for last three years to pay down debts. Remember you see about 50% of your bonus after taxes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Funny how folks quote HHI. I worked on Wall Street 30 years before taking a job in the D.C. Area. Folks always would rate rank on your income alone. Spouses income and investment income etc don't count. I say a guy making 350k starts a good income, 500k is next level and a one million salary is holy grail. HHI is not a good indicator of how well someone is doing.

Also middle class is a lifestyle not an income level. My old CEO lived in same house he always lived in since his 20s and gave 90 percent of income to charity. Most of rest was a trust for kids. He lived a blue collar lifestyle complete with a small split level on a 69x100 plot. Nice guy. The year we did IPO he made more than Oprah Winfrey or any pro player or singer. Still drove a minivan. His pay was around 100 million that year. Most stock as he founded company that did IPO.

I reject these values categorically.

Yes, as do most greedy parasites.