Ok can we stop saying $300k is "rich" in DC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$2 million HHI PP here again. I dont understand how a smart, ambitious 40's plus couple working full time both highly educated earns only $300,000 or $500,000. Basically every couple we know with 2 fulltime workers makes seven figures or minimum very high six figures. $300k-$500k is good at late 20's early 30's. The numbers you read in these statistics include single family households and people with no education. Of course that brings the average way down. But most people in NW DC are two parent, 2 income
Households and making 7 figures HHI by early 40's, regardless of what this article says.

I'm pretty sure you're a troll. But just in case there are people out there who agree with you, I give you me as an example of someone with a graduate degree (Ph.D.) who earns $100k at an academic job (just got there and I'm 50) married to a guy with a JD who works in non profit and makes $150k. We both love our jobs.

Not all of us worship at the altar of money but actually care about what we do and think about doing good in the world.

Yup, double income nonprofit couple here with master's degrees from top schools. $185K income, though I'm underpaid. Nonetheless we do just fine (vacations every year, saving for retirement, etc.) We are out to make the world a better place and set a good example for our offspring.

I'm always super happy to read posts like this. We also make about 185 hhi with dual incomes from public service / library / education sector jobs. Always glad to read we're in good company.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Married with 1 kid, living in NWDC. HHI is about $275k gross. We feel pretty dang well-off. Here is where our money goes:

- Taxes: $65k (includes federal, DC, and FICA)
- House: $40k (includes PITI plus HOA plus utilities)
- Daycare: $22k
- Student loans+kid's 529: $16k
- Restaurants: $11k
- Travel: $9k
- Groceries: $8k
- Insurance + Medical: $8k
- Clothing: $6k
- Cable and Cell phones: $5k
- Discretionary/uncategorized/entertainment: $12k
- Savings: $73k (includes 401k, IRA, brokerage, etc.)

It's hard to feel anything other than "rich" when you're living well and still saving $70k per year. I don't know how the rest of you feel, but spending nearly $1k every month on restaurants is downright luxurious. (We like to cook generally, but when we go out to eat we usually go somewhere nice).

This isn't to brag but rather aims to give a reality check to people who say $300k is "middle class" in NW DC. It isn't. It's extremely comfortable and privileged.

You are pretty broke assest wise as savings on 73k including 401ks is very small. The stock mkt is doing great and if you work for a company with a good 401k match 73k is like four years of savings. I am 12 years from retirement and have 1.3 million in my 401ks. And I know folks with two million dollar 401ks. I don't feel well off as I don't touch that money. I also have around 500k saved for kids college. 200k emergency fund, two million in real estate and a few hundred grand in muni bonds.

I am firmly middle class. Drive a used car, eat fast food, shop at Kohls, use coupons, wife cuts kids hair, don't have maid, kids parties at home and wife makes food.

Well off is over ten million assets and one million income or greater.

No, you misunderstand. I posted our annual budget. $73k is our annual savings, not our balance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Married with 1 kid, living in NWDC. HHI is about $275k gross. We feel pretty dang well-off. Here is where our money goes:

- Taxes: $65k (includes federal, DC, and FICA)
- House: $40k (includes PITI plus HOA plus utilities)
- Daycare: $22k
- Student loans+kid's 529: $16k
- Restaurants: $11k
- Travel: $9k
- Groceries: $8k
- Insurance + Medical: $8k
- Clothing: $6k
- Cable and Cell phones: $5k
- Discretionary/uncategorized/entertainment: $12k
- Savings: $73k (includes 401k, IRA, brokerage, etc.)

It's hard to feel anything other than "rich" when you're living well and still saving $70k per year. I don't know how the rest of you feel, but spending nearly $1k every month on restaurants is downright luxurious. (We like to cook generally, but when we go out to eat we usually go somewhere nice).

This isn't to brag but rather aims to give a reality check to people who say $300k is "middle class" in NW DC. It isn't. It's extremely comfortable and privileged.

You may have good cash flow, but you are not rich. You are one job layoff, illness, or stock market crash away from a financial crisis.

Actually, one job layoff we'd be fine. 2 job layoffs would hurt though. Stock market crash wouldn't affect us because our invested money has a long time horizon -- not touching it for decades.

[Anonymous]

73k savings a year a lot better but still not great. You have to take a lot of risk to build it. You are in a two income trap. Child care costs, double commuting costs, the need to out to dinner a lot and go on vacations builds.

I make a double income and wife does not work outside home. All that money spent on childcare, take our, dinners out etc goes into savings. I run risk I lose job no fall back which puts rock on my back. My wife has been home 17 years since first kid born. Since I have no fixed expenses I save right now 75 percent of my salary. When my wife did work we lived off my paycheck and saved 100 percent of her paycheck.

Crank up that savings!!!

[Anonymous]

Saving 73K a year with app to economize in case of layoff is great, get real, PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:73k savings a year a lot better but still not great. You have to take a lot of risk to build it. You are in a two income trap. Child care costs, double commuting costs, the need to out to dinner a lot and go on vacations builds.

I make a double income and wife does not work outside home. All that money spent on childcare, take our, dinners out etc goes into savings. I run risk I lose job no fall back which puts rock on my back. My wife has been home 17 years since first kid born. Since I have no fixed expenses I save right now 75 percent of my salary. When my wife did work we lived off my paycheck and saved 100 percent of her paycheck.

Crank up that savings!!!

Lol 73k per year savings no great. Ok...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you bought your house before 2003 or went to college before 2000 shut the fuck up. Costs have gone up exponentially and you can't live the middle class lifestyle on less than 250k.

Funny. We're able to live quite nicely on 100k.

Quite nicely? You can't max out on retirement on that, nor can you save for college. Do you mean you have money left over at the end of the month? To me, living "quite nicely" is maxing out two 401(k) plans annually and saving enough to fund four years of state college education for each of my children.

We do or very close to that. Enough to retire a couple of years early if desired. State college tuition funded for four years by the time kids are in school. Money for vacations. No car loans. It can be done, but you can't do that and insist on living in NW DC or go on expensive travel.

You gross $8200 a month, which is about, what, $6000 a month net? How much of that $6000 do you save for tuition and vacation and other savings? Your mortgage must be $1,000 a month or less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't I feel rich when we make double that? Sigh. I really don't get it.

Post your budget and we will find money for a fantastic vacation. Then you will feel better!

Yeah, I'm really curious how one can manage to spend $35,000 a month (or whatever it is after tax) without feeling like the lap of luxury.

You don't understand the upper tax brackets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Married with 1 kid, living in NWDC. HHI is about $275k gross. We feel pretty dang well-off. Here is where our money goes:

- Taxes: $65k (includes federal, DC, and FICA)
- House: $40k (includes PITI plus HOA plus utilities)
- Daycare: $22k
- Student loans+kid's 529: $16k
- Restaurants: $11k
- Travel: $9k
- Groceries: $8k
- Insurance + Medical: $8k
- Clothing: $6k
- Cable and Cell phones: $5k
- Discretionary/uncategorized/entertainment: $12k
- Savings: $73k (includes 401k, IRA, brokerage, etc.)

It's hard to feel anything other than "rich" when you're living well and still saving $70k per year. I don't know how the rest of you feel, but spending nearly $1k every month on restaurants is downright luxurious. (We like to cook generally, but when we go out to eat we usually go somewhere nice).

This isn't to brag but rather aims to give a reality check to people who say $300k is "middle class" in NW DC. It isn't. It's extremely comfortable and privileged.

Our HHI is about half that, and we don't save anywhere near what you do - and we still feel extremely comfortable and privileged. I guess maybe this just boils down to what you expect - I just feel (knock wood) incredibly lucky that we don't have to think twice about going to the movies or going out to eat, that our family - people and pets - can get whatever medical care we need, if I need new shoes I can just go buy them, etc etc etc. This is so much more than I expected to have in life.

I expected to have all that, and more. I sacrificed all of my 20s in school and working crazy hours. If I had been a so so student, never went to grad school and put in my 40 hours and went home, yeah, I'd feel lucky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't I feel rich when we make double that? Sigh. I really don't get it.

Post your budget and we will find money for a fantastic vacation. Then you will feel better!

Yeah, I'm really curious how one can manage to spend $35,000 a month (or whatever it is after tax) without feeling like the lap of luxury.

It's more like 26k after taxes. I'm not the PP but our gross is a little over 600 and that's what it boils down to.

Still....a very high amount, relative to the average. After my mortgage, I have $2,500 left for everything else, and it works out. (No kids.) i just can't imagine.

Our net is 4600 a month. One kid. I cannot imagine brining home 26k a month!!!

You can't imagine it so you never will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't I feel rich when we make double that? Sigh. I really don't get it.

Post your budget and we will find money for a fantastic vacation. Then you will feel better!

Yeah, I'm really curious how one can manage to spend $35,000 a month (or whatever it is after tax) without feeling like the lap of luxury.

It's more like 26k after taxes. I'm not the PP but our gross is a little over 600 and that's what it boils down to.

Still....a very high amount, relative to the average. After my mortgage, I have $2,500 left for everything else, and it works out. (No kids.) i just can't imagine.

Our net is 4600 a month. One kid. I cannot imagine brining home 26k a month!!!

You can't imagine it so you never will.

? Okay so imagining brings in money. Cute.

[Anonymous]

OMG. So saving $70,000 a year isn't great? That's more than the average family makes! No wonder so many of you think $300,000 is barely middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OMG. So saving $70,000 a year isn't great? That's more than the average family makes! No wonder so many of you think $300,000 is barely middle class.

Totally agree -- our net is probably only a bit higher than 70k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Married with 1 kid, living in NWDC. HHI is about $275k gross. We feel pretty dang well-off. Here is where our money goes:

- Taxes: $65k (includes federal, DC, and FICA)
- House: $40k (includes PITI plus HOA plus utilities)
- Daycare: $22k
- Student loans+kid's 529: $16k
- Restaurants: $11k
- Travel: $9k
- Groceries: $8k
- Insurance + Medical: $8k
- Clothing: $6k
- Cable and Cell phones: $5k
- Discretionary/uncategorized/entertainment: $12k
- Savings: $73k (includes 401k, IRA, brokerage, etc.)

It's hard to feel anything other than "rich" when you're living well and still saving $70k per year. I don't know how the rest of you feel, but spending nearly $1k every month on restaurants is downright luxurious. (We like to cook generally, but when we go out to eat we usually go somewhere nice).

This isn't to brag but rather aims to give a reality check to people who say $300k is "middle class" in NW DC. It isn't. It's extremely comfortable and privileged.

Our HHI is about half that, and we don't save anywhere near what you do - and we still feel extremely comfortable and privileged. I guess maybe this just boils down to what you expect - I just feel (knock wood) incredibly lucky that we don't have to think twice about going to the movies or going out to eat, that our family - people and pets - can get whatever medical care we need, if I need new shoes I can just go buy them, etc etc etc. This is so much more than I expected to have in life.

I expected to have all that, and more. I sacrificed all of my 20s in school and working crazy hours. If I had been a so so student, never went to grad school and put in my 40 hours and went home, yeah, I'd feel lucky.

Cool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OMG. So saving $70,000 a year isn't great? That's more than the average family makes! No wonder so many of you think $300,000 is barely middle class.

70k is great for a single person in their twenties or early thirties. Not so much for a family of four.