Donut hole reality

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who claim donut hole and are angry that they only have 130k in an account —are you also stomping your feet that you can’t afford the 2M mansions in the other town? Do you ping away at what you cannot have? Or are you happy that you have a good home in a solid town. Because you are indeed able to afford a good education via state universities. I swear college admissions is the only area where this nonsense comes into play. For everything else in life you buy what you can afford in your budget and move one. Why do you think you are entitled to a high priced private college. You have 100s even 1000s of colleges available to you via public universities.

It’s because so many selective colleges have policies where incomes under $150k students can attend free. Or under $200k, students qualify for need-based aid, and so on.

“Donut hole” (terrible name) is this window of income that puts you above need-based aid, but not enough to save as much as you’d had hoped.

The people who use the term tend to be jerks so it’s understandable why they’re disliked so much, but so many regular people fall into this category. They are stretched with housing, retirement, elder care, college savings, inflation and on and on. And yes, our kids end up going to public colleges or community schools, and doing ok. But, as a policy matter, it does sting that someone earning just a bit less than you qualifies for aid. I know there’ll be someone who says “well then earn less!” 🙄 there’s always a rebuttal to everything, but that’s the honest answer.

It’s about lifestyle choices. Two families on the same income and one chooses a million dollar house and one chooses a $400k house. The million dollar house family with more kids should not get rewarded for their poor decisions.

We picked the 400k house. We still couldn't pay 85k/year times 2 for college. Or I guess we "could", but it would be a financially stupid decision!

Same here but I guess it makes people like the PP feel better to make these assumptions. We are not going on fancy vacations and we settled for a 2300sq ft house. Still couldn’t pay full price at privates.

In 1980 the median size for a new home was 1600 sqft.
https://www.thezebra.com/resources/home/median-home-size-in-us/

This is a little silly. We rented a 1800 soft home somewhere ultra desirable that would have cost 1 million to buy. We bought in a burb, 2400 sqft, for 420k. Size is only a small part of it.

I'm one of the ones that saved 500/month. We lived in 1300 sf for 12 years. Would have loved to have 2400, that would have been spacious! But we decided to save for college, fully fund it, and we did. Now we've upgraded to 4000 sf. We made a plan and stuck to it. But yup, keep whining 2400 sfooter.

I’m not the PP but I didn’t get that PP was whining at all. You sound like you have a chip on your shoulder. Stop making assumptions about people whose choices don’t mirror yours. Geez

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who claim donut hole and are angry that they only have 130k in an account —are you also stomping your feet that you can’t afford the 2M mansions in the other town? Do you ping away at what you cannot have? Or are you happy that you have a good home in a solid town. Because you are indeed able to afford a good education via state universities. I swear college admissions is the only area where this nonsense comes into play. For everything else in life you buy what you can afford in your budget and move one. Why do you think you are entitled to a high priced private college. You have 100s even 1000s of colleges available to you via public universities.

It’s because so many selective colleges have policies where incomes under $150k students can attend free. Or under $200k, students qualify for need-based aid, and so on.

“Donut hole” (terrible name) is this window of income that puts you above need-based aid, but not enough to save as much as you’d had hoped.

The people who use the term tend to be jerks so it’s understandable why they’re disliked so much, but so many regular people fall into this category. They are stretched with housing, retirement, elder care, college savings, inflation and on and on. And yes, our kids end up going to public colleges or community schools, and doing ok. But, as a policy matter, it does sting that someone earning just a bit less than you qualifies for aid. I know there’ll be someone who says “well then earn less!” 🙄 there’s always a rebuttal to everything, but that’s the honest answer.

It’s about lifestyle choices. Two families on the same income and one chooses a million dollar house and one chooses a $400k house. The million dollar house family with more kids should not get rewarded for their poor decisions.

We picked the 400k house. We still couldn't pay 85k/year times 2 for college. Or I guess we "could", but it would be a financially stupid decision!

Same here but I guess it makes people like the PP feel better to make these assumptions. We are not going on fancy vacations and we settled for a 2300sq ft house. Still couldn’t pay full price at privates.

In 1980 the median size for a new home was 1600 sqft.
https://www.thezebra.com/resources/home/median-home-size-in-us/

This is a little silly. We rented a 1800 soft home somewhere ultra desirable that would have cost 1 million to buy. We bought in a burb, 2400 sqft, for 420k. Size is only a small part of it.

I'm one of the ones that saved 500/month. We lived in 1300 sf for 12 years. Would have loved to have 2400, that would have been spacious! But we decided to save for college, fully fund it, and we did. Now we've upgraded to 4000 sf. We made a plan and stuck to it. But yup, keep whining 2400 sfooter.

I’m not the PP but I didn’t get that PP was whining at all. You sound like you have a chip on your shoulder. Stop making assumptions about people whose choices don’t mirror yours. Geez

That's the problem. People are making choices to live more comfortably and then want others to pay for their kids college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok I’ll bite. I make $193,000.00 as a government attorney. However the first 20 years I was paying student loans. I paid them off. I didn’t get student loan forgiveness. Then and only then did I have one child but if course it took years and now I’m an older mom. I have been saving in a 529 for 8 years now but I will never reach the numbers required to pay tuition at the school I attended. Maybe I’ll just retire the year before I have to fill out the FASFA as it’s the only way I will get any aid. I also had medical bills and sent money to my mother. But sure I’m UMC.

Yes, you are UMC. You'd also qualify for some financial aid at some of the expensive private schools. You also don't need to save everything up front.

At $200K, you can afford to save. Where is dad?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok I’ll bite. I make $193,000.00 as a government attorney. However the first 20 years I was paying student loans. I paid them off. I didn’t get student loan forgiveness. Then and only then did I have one child but if course it took years and now I’m an older mom. I have been saving in a 529 for 8 years now but I will never reach the numbers required to pay tuition at the school I attended. Maybe I’ll just retire the year before I have to fill out the FASFA as it’s the only way I will get any aid. I also had medical bills and sent money to my mother. But sure I’m UMC.

Yes, you are UMC. You'd also qualify for some financial aid at some of the expensive private schools. You also don't need to save everything up front.

At $200K, you can afford to save. Where is dad?

Np, of course, but the question remains how much. Full pay at top 20?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who claim donut hole and are angry that they only have 130k in an account —are you also stomping your feet that you can’t afford the 2M mansions in the other town? Do you ping away at what you cannot have? Or are you happy that you have a good home in a solid town. Because you are indeed able to afford a good education via state universities. I swear college admissions is the only area where this nonsense comes into play. For everything else in life you buy what you can afford in your budget and move one. Why do you think you are entitled to a high priced private college. You have 100s even 1000s of colleges available to you via public universities.

It’s because so many selective colleges have policies where incomes under $150k students can attend free. Or under $200k, students qualify for need-based aid, and so on.

“Donut hole” (terrible name) is this window of income that puts you above need-based aid, but not enough to save as much as you’d had hoped.

The people who use the term tend to be jerks so it’s understandable why they’re disliked so much, but so many regular people fall into this category. They are stretched with housing, retirement, elder care, college savings, inflation and on and on. And yes, our kids end up going to public colleges or community schools, and doing ok. But, as a policy matter, it does sting that someone earning just a bit less than you qualifies for aid. I know there’ll be someone who says “well then earn less!” 🙄 there’s always a rebuttal to everything, but that’s the honest answer.

It’s about lifestyle choices. Two families on the same income and one chooses a million dollar house and one chooses a $400k house. The million dollar house family with more kids should not get rewarded for their poor decisions.

We picked the 400k house. We still couldn't pay 85k/year times 2 for college. Or I guess we "could", but it would be a financially stupid decision!

Same here but I guess it makes people like the PP feel better to make these assumptions. We are not going on fancy vacations and we settled for a 2300sq ft house. Still couldn’t pay full price at privates.

In 1980 the median size for a new home was 1600 sqft.
https://www.thezebra.com/resources/home/median-home-size-in-us/

This is a little silly. We rented a 1800 soft home somewhere ultra desirable that would have cost 1 million to buy. We bought in a burb, 2400 sqft, for 420k. Size is only a small part of it.

I'm one of the ones that saved 500/month. We lived in 1300 sf for 12 years. Would have loved to have 2400, that would have been spacious! But we decided to save for college, fully fund it, and we did. Now we've upgraded to 4000 sf. We made a plan and stuck to it. But yup, keep whining 2400 sfooter.

I’m not the PP but I didn’t get that PP was whining at all. You sound like you have a chip on your shoulder. Stop making assumptions about people whose choices don’t mirror yours. Geez

That's the problem. People are making choices to live more comfortably and then want others to pay for their kids college.

I think people are lamenting that costs have gotten astronomical not that other people aren’t paying for their kids to attend college. Again your angry seems misplaced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who claim donut hole and are angry that they only have 130k in an account —are you also stomping your feet that you can’t afford the 2M mansions in the other town? Do you ping away at what you cannot have? Or are you happy that you have a good home in a solid town. Because you are indeed able to afford a good education via state universities. I swear college admissions is the only area where this nonsense comes into play. For everything else in life you buy what you can afford in your budget and move one. Why do you think you are entitled to a high priced private college. You have 100s even 1000s of colleges available to you via public universities.

It’s because so many selective colleges have policies where incomes under $150k students can attend free. Or under $200k, students qualify for need-based aid, and so on.

“Donut hole” (terrible name) is this window of income that puts you above need-based aid, but not enough to save as much as you’d had hoped.

The people who use the term tend to be jerks so it’s understandable why they’re disliked so much, but so many regular people fall into this category. They are stretched with housing, retirement, elder care, college savings, inflation and on and on. And yes, our kids end up going to public colleges or community schools, and doing ok. But, as a policy matter, it does sting that someone earning just a bit less than you qualifies for aid. I know there’ll be someone who says “well then earn less!” 🙄 there’s always a rebuttal to everything, but that’s the honest answer.

It’s about lifestyle choices. Two families on the same income and one chooses a million dollar house and one chooses a $400k house. The million dollar house family with more kids should not get rewarded for their poor decisions.

We picked the 400k house. We still couldn't pay 85k/year times 2 for college. Or I guess we "could", but it would be a financially stupid decision!

Same here but I guess it makes people like the PP feel better to make these assumptions. We are not going on fancy vacations and we settled for a 2300sq ft house. Still couldn’t pay full price at privates.

In 1980 the median size for a new home was 1600 sqft.
https://www.thezebra.com/resources/home/median-home-size-in-us/

This is a little silly. We rented a 1800 soft home somewhere ultra desirable that would have cost 1 million to buy. We bought in a burb, 2400 sqft, for 420k. Size is only a small part of it.

I'm one of the ones that saved 500/month. We lived in 1300 sf for 12 years. Would have loved to have 2400, that would have been spacious! But we decided to save for college, fully fund it, and we did. Now we've upgraded to 4000 sf. We made a plan and stuck to it. But yup, keep whining 2400 sfooter.

I’m not the PP but I didn’t get that PP was whining at all. You sound like you have a chip on your shoulder. Stop making assumptions about people whose choices don’t mirror yours. Geez

That's the problem. People are making choices to live more comfortably and then want others to pay for their kids college.

This is the same person over and over trolling the board. Just let the thread die.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who claim donut hole and are angry that they only have 130k in an account —are you also stomping your feet that you can’t afford the 2M mansions in the other town? Do you ping away at what you cannot have? Or are you happy that you have a good home in a solid town. Because you are indeed able to afford a good education via state universities. I swear college admissions is the only area where this nonsense comes into play. For everything else in life you buy what you can afford in your budget and move one. Why do you think you are entitled to a high priced private college. You have 100s even 1000s of colleges available to you via public universities.

It’s because so many selective colleges have policies where incomes under $150k students can attend free. Or under $200k, students qualify for need-based aid, and so on.

“Donut hole” (terrible name) is this window of income that puts you above need-based aid, but not enough to save as much as you’d had hoped.

The people who use the term tend to be jerks so it’s understandable why they’re disliked so much, but so many regular people fall into this category. They are stretched with housing, retirement, elder care, college savings, inflation and on and on. And yes, our kids end up going to public colleges or community schools, and doing ok. But, as a policy matter, it does sting that someone earning just a bit less than you qualifies for aid. I know there’ll be someone who says “well then earn less!” 🙄 there’s always a rebuttal to everything, but that’s the honest answer.

It’s about lifestyle choices. Two families on the same income and one chooses a million dollar house and one chooses a $400k house. The million dollar house family with more kids should not get rewarded for their poor decisions.

We picked the 400k house. We still couldn't pay 85k/year times 2 for college. Or I guess we "could", but it would be a financially stupid decision!

Same here but I guess it makes people like the PP feel better to make these assumptions. We are not going on fancy vacations and we settled for a 2300sq ft house. Still couldn’t pay full price at privates.

In 1980 the median size for a new home was 1600 sqft.
https://www.thezebra.com/resources/home/median-home-size-in-us/

This is a little silly. We rented a 1800 soft home somewhere ultra desirable that would have cost 1 million to buy. We bought in a burb, 2400 sqft, for 420k. Size is only a small part of it.

I'm one of the ones that saved 500/month. We lived in 1300 sf for 12 years. Would have loved to have 2400, that would have been spacious! But we decided to save for college, fully fund it, and we did. Now we've upgraded to 4000 sf. We made a plan and stuck to it. But yup, keep whining 2400 sfooter.

I’m not the PP but I didn’t get that PP was whining at all. You sound like you have a chip on your shoulder. Stop making assumptions about people whose choices don’t mirror yours. Geez

That's the problem. People are making choices to live more comfortably and then want others to pay for their kids college.

I think people are lamenting that costs have gotten astronomical not that other people aren’t paying for their kids to attend college. Again your angry seems misplaced.

DP. Are you saying college has gotten so expensive so full pay people are paying for financial aid? You may have a point? We are full pay at a private college $85k plus yet brochures say the average student pays less than half of that. Someone is paying for their tuition so maybe pp has a point?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok I’ll bite. I make $193,000.00 as a government attorney. However the first 20 years I was paying student loans. I paid them off. I didn’t get student loan forgiveness. Then and only then did I have one child but if course it took years and now I’m an older mom. I have been saving in a 529 for 8 years now but I will never reach the numbers required to pay tuition at the school I attended. Maybe I’ll just retire the year before I have to fill out the FASFA as it’s the only way I will get any aid. I also had medical bills and sent money to my mother. But sure I’m UMC.

Yes, you are UMC. You'd also qualify for some financial aid at some of the expensive private schools. You also don't need to save everything up front.

At $200K, you can afford to save. Where is dad?

You have no right -none- telling people what they can afford to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who claim donut hole and are angry that they only have 130k in an account —are you also stomping your feet that you can’t afford the 2M mansions in the other town? Do you ping away at what you cannot have? Or are you happy that you have a good home in a solid town. Because you are indeed able to afford a good education via state universities. I swear college admissions is the only area where this nonsense comes into play. For everything else in life you buy what you can afford in your budget and move one. Why do you think you are entitled to a high priced private college. You have 100s even 1000s of colleges available to you via public universities.

It’s because so many selective colleges have policies where incomes under $150k students can attend free. Or under $200k, students qualify for need-based aid, and so on.

“Donut hole” (terrible name) is this window of income that puts you above need-based aid, but not enough to save as much as you’d had hoped.

The people who use the term tend to be jerks so it’s understandable why they’re disliked so much, but so many regular people fall into this category. They are stretched with housing, retirement, elder care, college savings, inflation and on and on. And yes, our kids end up going to public colleges or community schools, and doing ok. But, as a policy matter, it does sting that someone earning just a bit less than you qualifies for aid. I know there’ll be someone who says “well then earn less!” 🙄 there’s always a rebuttal to everything, but that’s the honest answer.

It’s about lifestyle choices. Two families on the same income and one chooses a million dollar house and one chooses a $400k house. The million dollar house family with more kids should not get rewarded for their poor decisions.

We picked the 400k house. We still couldn't pay 85k/year times 2 for college. Or I guess we "could", but it would be a financially stupid decision!

Same here but I guess it makes people like the PP feel better to make these assumptions. We are not going on fancy vacations and we settled for a 2300sq ft house. Still couldn’t pay full price at privates.

In 1980 the median size for a new home was 1600 sqft.
https://www.thezebra.com/resources/home/median-home-size-in-us/

This is a little silly. We rented a 1800 soft home somewhere ultra desirable that would have cost 1 million to buy. We bought in a burb, 2400 sqft, for 420k. Size is only a small part of it.

I'm one of the ones that saved 500/month. We lived in 1300 sf for 12 years. Would have loved to have 2400, that would have been spacious! But we decided to save for college, fully fund it, and we did. Now we've upgraded to 4000 sf. We made a plan and stuck to it. But yup, keep whining 2400 sfooter.

I’m not the PP but I didn’t get that PP was whining at all. You sound like you have a chip on your shoulder. Stop making assumptions about people whose choices don’t mirror yours. Geez

That's the problem. People are making choices to live more comfortably and then want others to pay for their kids college.

So what? Why should they liquidated their home equity and savings when others are going to school for a fraction of what they're being asked to pay? This is college. Not a socio-economic leveling program.

[Anonymous]

A universal cutoff number for need based aid is ridiculous when it does not take into account cost of living. $150k in Oklahoma is much different than San Fran or DC.

The latest findings:

Here's a look how much income a family of four needs to live comfortably in the 20 most expensive U.S. cities: 
San Francisco: $339,123
San Jose, California: $334,547
Boston: $319,738
Arlington, Virginia: $318,573
New York City: $318,406
Oakland, California: $316,243
Urban Honolulu, Hawaii: $299,520
Irvine, California: $291,450
Santa Ana, California: $291,450
Portland, Oregon: $289,786
San Diego: $289,453
Chula Vista, California: $289,453
Newark, New Jersey: $285,043
Jersey City, New Jersey: $285,043
Seattle: $283,712
Aurora, Colorado: $280,467
Long Beach, California: $280,218
Anaheim, California: $280,218
Los Angeles: $276,557
Washington, D.C.: $275,642

[Anonymous]

^^And in large cities, housing costs often exceed 30% of a household income, leaving little room for other necessities like utilities, food and transportation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok I’ll bite. I make $193,000.00 as a government attorney. However the first 20 years I was paying student loans. I paid them off. I didn’t get student loan forgiveness. Then and only then did I have one child but if course it took years and now I’m an older mom. I have been saving in a 529 for 8 years now but I will never reach the numbers required to pay tuition at the school I attended. Maybe I’ll just retire the year before I have to fill out the FASFA as it’s the only way I will get any aid. I also had medical bills and sent money to my mother. But sure I’m UMC.

Yes, you are UMC. You'd also qualify for some financial aid at some of the expensive private schools. You also don't need to save everything up front.

At $200K, you can afford to save. Where is dad?

Np, of course, but the question remains how much. Full pay at top 20?

If that is your priority then yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^And in large cities, housing costs often exceed 30% of a household income, leaving little room for other necessities like utilities, food and transportation.

It’s all about choices. In this area you can have a small crummy $500k house or a nicer million dollar or more house. You can shop at aldis and Walmart for groceries for Whole Foods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A universal cutoff number for need based aid is ridiculous when it does not take into account cost of living. $150k in Oklahoma is much different than San Fran or DC.

The latest findings:

Here's a look how much income a family of four needs to live comfortably in the 20 most expensive U.S. cities: 
San Francisco: $339,123
San Jose, California: $334,547
Boston: $319,738
Arlington, Virginia: $318,573
New York City: $318,406
Oakland, California: $316,243
Urban Honolulu, Hawaii: $299,520
Irvine, California: $291,450
Santa Ana, California: $291,450
Portland, Oregon: $289,786
San Diego: $289,453
Chula Vista, California: $289,453
Newark, New Jersey: $285,043
Jersey City, New Jersey: $285,043
Seattle: $283,712
Aurora, Colorado: $280,467
Long Beach, California: $280,218
Anaheim, California: $280,218
Los Angeles: $276,557
Washington, D.C.: $275,642

We live very comfortably on $150 or less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s not donut hole. That’s a comfortable family. The rest of our kids go to state schools.

This. If you have sticker shock, but the ability to pay you aren't really a donut hole.

Ability to pay when that ability means constant struggle, isn’t really comfortable.

Families with more than one kid and $250-300k don’t get financial aid. Paying $180-200k/year for kids’ tuition isn’t easy.

You save starting at birth, consider your spending and live way below your means.

That’s not enough, PP.

You are then penalized for your frugalness and savings; what is in your 529. You can't win.

This. An idiot I went to college with actually said to me “Only poor people use 529s. People who can actually afford private college don’t need them.”

She’s not an accountant or a financial planner, obvi.

Too many “only poor people” comments that are just plain stupid and wrong. There are good reasons why some families shouldn’t use a 529 plan. But that’s not one of them.