Daughter married a doctor, he’s pressuring her to pay off his student debt

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband paid off my credit card debt when we got married. I was so ashamed and embarrassed. I’ll never forget how nonjudgmental and straightforward he was—“this is our debt now and we agreed we don’t want debt, right?” End of story.

That debt had funded a move that got me in a job where I want just able to buy him a sports car.

This is all a silly way to say—if everyone is working in faith of the marriage, you know it all comes out in the wash. So what’s the real situation here?

Did you have $400k to 500k in cc debt?

Most med schools (even in-state) are $60K/year in tuition, then there's fees and oh, you have to live and eat and typically cannot work a job (med school is a 80hour/week+ job). So medical school will be $240K tuition alone at the cheapest. add another $100K for living expenses over 4 years.

Huge difference between med school debt and cc debt. One leads to a job that typically pays $200K+, you cannot be a doctor without it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH and I are still paying off my grad school loan. We have combined bank accounts so it’s not like there’s any way to actually delineate who’s paying what on it. He also supported me while I stopped working for two years to do it. But he has benefited from my going back to school. I increased my income by over three times what I was making before. We get to live in a nicer house and go on nicer vacations and do nicer things for our kids because of it.

I could see where if a married couple keeps separate finances it would be tricky because doing that maintains the ‘his’ vs ‘hers’ mindset. This is bad for a marriage.

Yup! Do that and also go in with the mindset---I need to do this to protect myself (ie the marriage wont' last) and you are setting yourself up for....the marriage wont last

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like there may be some larger issues in this marriage. I was the one in a graduate professional program during a marriage. Spouse (employed with a good job) made it clear that they would not provide any financial assistance (although I'm fully sure they expected to benefit from my later salary). Well, we are no longer married and said former spouse is not benefiting from my income.

Hard to be part of a team if one member doesn't want to fully participate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like there may be some larger issues in this marriage. I was the one in a graduate professional program during a marriage. Spouse (employed with a good job) made it clear that they would not provide any financial assistance (although I'm fully sure they expected to benefit from my later salary). Well, we are no longer married and said former spouse is not benefiting from my income.

Maybe he doesn’t care bc he has a good job and didn’t have to support a taker. In today’s world, with skyrocketing tuition and declining incomes, it’s irresponsible for people to take on massive debt and just rely on their spouse to help pay it off. If your parents didn’t pay, what business do you have saddling an unsuspecting spouse with debt?

As long as the spouse has a job and is contributing to the family income, they are not "relying on their spouse to pay it off". Some people are lucky enough to have parents who can pay for college/med school/start them off after college with money and easy life. Others have to take on debt and then pay it off

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, come back and answer the key question: what does it mean pressuring to pay ??

Is it that she uses pre-marital assets to pay a lump sum towards his debts? If so, that doesn't seem right.

Is it that they have a joint budget and share expenses 50-50 including the recurring debt payments? That seems fair if she is planning to benefit from his future salary too.

How we did it: i had zero debts, a higher salary and higher career prospects. He had student debts and an NGO career. He paid his debt on his own but we contributed to the family budget proportionally to our income (ie, post debt payments he was making half of what i made so he put half of what i put in the family pot). We didn't fully merge as i kept more savings than him but at the end of the day I still helped him pay his debts. And then for the last 10K i put a lump sum and paid them off.

How does the "more savings" work? When you turn 65 and retire, you get to travel and he can't because "he didn't save enough"?
Or do you pay for all vacations because you make more?

How do you know you’ll still be married at 65? Or both alive at 65? Coercing a debt free young wife to bail you out of $400,000 in debt makes you a chickenshit mooch.

So does the reverse work? Now they are married, once he pays off "his debt" is his income all his to spend as he sees fit? He pays half the living expenses and she pays the other half? Even if he makes $300K and she makes $75K? Why should he contribute more than half, if there's a chance she will leave him for someone else in 5 years?

Me personally, I choose carefully for getting married, and that includes real discussions about finances and everything else in life. If you are not on a similar page for most things, then don't get married. But I cannot imagine being married to someone who views finances as "theirs" and"mine" We are a team, and as such we do what financially benefits the entire family most. I don't go thru life planning as if my marriage is a sham and will be over in 4-5 years.

OP says her daughter has a good job and no debt. It’s entirely possible she’ll end up making the same if not more than her taker DH by the time he pays off his debt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, come back and answer the key question: what does it mean pressuring to pay ??

Is it that she uses pre-marital assets to pay a lump sum towards his debts? If so, that doesn't seem right.

Is it that they have a joint budget and share expenses 50-50 including the recurring debt payments? That seems fair if she is planning to benefit from his future salary too.

How we did it: i had zero debts, a higher salary and higher career prospects. He had student debts and an NGO career. He paid his debt on his own but we contributed to the family budget proportionally to our income (ie, post debt payments he was making half of what i made so he put half of what i put in the family pot). We didn't fully merge as i kept more savings than him but at the end of the day I still helped him pay his debts. And then for the last 10K i put a lump sum and paid them off.

How does the "more savings" work? When you turn 65 and retire, you get to travel and he can't because "he didn't save enough"?
Or do you pay for all vacations because you make more?

How do you know you’ll still be married at 65? Or both alive at 65? Coercing a debt free young wife to bail you out of $400,000 in debt makes you a chickenshit mooch.

So does the reverse work? Now they are married, once he pays off "his debt" is his income all his to spend as he sees fit? He pays half the living expenses and she pays the other half? Even if he makes $300K and she makes $75K? Why should he contribute more than half, if there's a chance she will leave him for someone else in 5 years?

Me personally, I choose carefully for getting married, and that includes real discussions about finances and everything else in life. If you are not on a similar page for most things, then don't get married. But I cannot imagine being married to someone who views finances as "theirs" and"mine" We are a team, and as such we do what financially benefits the entire family most. I don't go thru life planning as if my marriage is a sham and will be over in 4-5 years.

OP says her daughter has a good job and no debt. It’s entirely possible she’ll end up making the same if not more than her taker DH by the time he pays off his debt.

Haaa..."her taker DH". Let me guess, you are not happily married with that attitude

As long as her DH has the debt, the family unit (two of them plus any kids) are not getting his full salary to utilize. Doesn't matter who makes more or less in actuality. fact is the sooner the debt is paid off, the sooner the interest stops (typically high interest) and the sooner they can start saving jointly that extra money and building wealth. It's not that difficult to understand

[Anonymous]

Talk to women who’ve been cheated on by their geek doctor husbands and see if they’d recommend paying off his debt. This is NOT your daughter’s debt, it’s his debt he racked up before they even met.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seven pages but OP has not responded to questions. Why is anyone still bothering?

She did. 15:30

Those aren’t answers other than some weird anti private school rant. Is he asking to pay it off quickly using their current joint accounts? Is he asking her to pay off using premarital assets in her name? Do they currently have separate finances?

There’s no “weird rant,” it was detailing why his loans are sky high. He and his family chose let him attend higher status and the most expensive private colleges for both undergrad and med school, which resulted in lots of loans. His spouse attended humble and affordable public colleges her family could afford. Now you think the wife who was fiscally responsible should bail her husband out of debt he accumulated before they even met? This is nuts. Hell no. She shouldn’t pay a dime.

Um, you're acting like there's no future benefit to attending prestigious schools. Why do you think people shell out small fortunes to attend these places, lol??

I'll be the first to admit there's not an r^2 = 1 correlation (to put it in nerdy, statistical terms) between prestigious schools and future wealth/career success. A lot of the benefit of these schools is in the networking and related factors, not necessarily the actual education. So an introvert like me, who hates the social aspect of the work world, benefited less from my Ivy degree than others.

But you're crazy if you're treating debt from prestigious schools like an overpriced vacation he put on a credit card.

+1

And for medical school, you attend where you get accepted. You don't get to pick and choose. State schools are really difficult to get into for Med school/PT/OT/Law because they are more affordable and everyone obviously wants to save $$ on med school

Pure hogwash. You don’t have to attend Vandy undergrad or a private out of state medical school to become an MD. Our MD son just went through this. He got into higher ranked private colleges but chose more affordable and slightly lower ranked in-state public universities. It saved him hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[Anonymous]

You decide to marry the person as they are, debts and all. Marriage means you are an economic unit. You vowed to take care of that person through thick and thin. And they vowed to take care of you as well. Are you planning to pay for the person's expenses when they are old and need help for medical reasons (if that person has not saved enough in your 50% scheme of paying for household expenses)? Or do you let the person go unattended? Do you plan to have children and make everything 50% when it comes to their activities/education (even if one partner cannot afford to give the 50%)? Do you plan to split all the housework/child care duties exactly 50%? Or will you work as a team to make a home and life for yourselves because you have made a commitment to do that? If you are not ready to give and sacrifice for another person in order to form a family, you are not ready for marriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, come back and answer the key question: what does it mean pressuring to pay ??

Is it that she uses pre-marital assets to pay a lump sum towards his debts? If so, that doesn't seem right.

Is it that they have a joint budget and share expenses 50-50 including the recurring debt payments? That seems fair if she is planning to benefit from his future salary too.

How we did it: i had zero debts, a higher salary and higher career prospects. He had student debts and an NGO career. He paid his debt on his own but we contributed to the family budget proportionally to our income (ie, post debt payments he was making half of what i made so he put half of what i put in the family pot). We didn't fully merge as i kept more savings than him but at the end of the day I still helped him pay his debts. And then for the last 10K i put a lump sum and paid them off.

How does the "more savings" work? When you turn 65 and retire, you get to travel and he can't because "he didn't save enough"?
Or do you pay for all vacations because you make more?

How do you know you’ll still be married at 65? Or both alive at 65? Coercing a debt free young wife to bail you out of $400,000 in debt makes you a chickenshit mooch.

So does the reverse work? Now they are married, once he pays off "his debt" is his income all his to spend as he sees fit? He pays half the living expenses and she pays the other half? Even if he makes $300K and she makes $75K? Why should he contribute more than half, if there's a chance she will leave him for someone else in 5 years?

Me personally, I choose carefully for getting married, and that includes real discussions about finances and everything else in life. If you are not on a similar page for most things, then don't get married. But I cannot imagine being married to someone who views finances as "theirs" and"mine" We are a team, and as such we do what financially benefits the entire family most. I don't go thru life planning as if my marriage is a sham and will be over in 4-5 years.

OP says her daughter has a good job and no debt. It’s entirely possible she’ll end up making the same if not more than her taker DH by the time he pays off his debt.

Haaa..."her taker DH". Let me guess, you are not happily married with that attitude

As long as her DH has the debt, the family unit (two of them plus any kids) are not getting his full salary to utilize. Doesn't matter who makes more or less in actuality. fact is the sooner the debt is paid off, the sooner the interest stops (typically high interest) and the sooner they can start saving jointly that extra money and building wealth. It's not that difficult to understand

It’s also not difficult to understand that he’s a scumbag for asking her to pay off his debt in one lump sum with her money, and it rightfully gives her own parent pause because he can so easily dump her as soon as the debt is paid. Why he would have the temerity to ask his wife this is something they should be concerned about.

[Anonymous]

Op, your DD came to you ... and you come to us, but the specifics matter. Your DD must know and must share the very specifics of their entire financial picture for this discussion to matter.

Debate -in theory- is irrelevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You decide to marry the person as they are, debts and all.Marriage means you are an economic unit. You vowed to take care of that person through thick and thin. And they vowed to take care of you as well. Are you planning to pay for the person's expenses when they are old and need help for medical reasons (if that person has not saved enough in your 50% scheme of paying for household expenses)? Or do you let the person go unattended? Do you plan to have children and make everything 50% when it comes to their activities/education (even if one partner cannot afford to give the 50%)? Do you plan to split all the housework/child care duties exactly 50%? Or will you work as a team to make a home and life for yourselves because you have made a commitment to do that? If you are not ready to give and sacrifice for another person in order to form a family, you are not ready for marriage.

lol. This is what schemers say so they can con their spouse. This isn't $5,000 in credit card debt from undergrad, it's probably closer to $500,000.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seven pages but OP has not responded to questions. Why is anyone still bothering?

She did. 15:30

Those aren’t answers other than some weird anti private school rant. Is he asking to pay it off quickly using their current joint accounts? Is he asking her to pay off using premarital assets in her name? Do they currently have separate finances?

There’s no “weird rant,” it was detailing why his loans are sky high. He and his family chose let him attend higher status and the most expensive private colleges for both undergrad and med school, which resulted in lots of loans. His spouse attended humble and affordable public colleges her family could afford. Now you think the wife who was fiscally responsible should bail her husband out of debt he accumulated before they even met? This is nuts. Hell no. She shouldn’t pay a dime.

Um, you're acting like there's no future benefit to attending prestigious schools. Why do you think people shell out small fortunes to attend these places, lol??

I'll be the first to admit there's not an r^2 = 1 correlation (to put it in nerdy, statistical terms) between prestigious schools and future wealth/career success. A lot of the benefit of these schools is in the networking and related factors, not necessarily the actual education. So an introvert like me, who hates the social aspect of the work world, benefited less from my Ivy degree than others.

But you're crazy if you're treating debt from prestigious schools like an overpriced vacation he put on a credit card.

+1

And for medical school, you attend where you get accepted. You don't get to pick and choose. State schools are really difficult to get into for Med school/PT/OT/Law because they are more affordable and everyone obviously wants to save $$ on med school

Pure hogwash. You don’t have to attend Vandy undergrad or a private out of state medical school to become an MD. Our MD son just went through this. He got into higher ranked private colleges but chose more affordable and slightly lower ranked in-state public universities. It saved him hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Did you read? Yes, most apply to their in-state Medical schools. In my state one is 40K/year the other is 59K. But those are as competitive, if not more so than the Vandy/Harvards/JHU precisely because kids want affordable, so everyone applies for in-state. But there are 2 choices in-state, if you don't get into either, then you either don't attend med school or you apply to others and pay more.

Hint: not everyone gets into an "affordable" med school. It's damn competitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, come back and answer the key question: what does it mean pressuring to pay ??

Is it that she uses pre-marital assets to pay a lump sum towards his debts? If so, that doesn't seem right.

Is it that they have a joint budget and share expenses 50-50 including the recurring debt payments? That seems fair if she is planning to benefit from his future salary too.

How we did it: i had zero debts, a higher salary and higher career prospects. He had student debts and an NGO career. He paid his debt on his own but we contributed to the family budget proportionally to our income (ie, post debt payments he was making half of what i made so he put half of what i put in the family pot). We didn't fully merge as i kept more savings than him but at the end of the day I still helped him pay his debts. And then for the last 10K i put a lump sum and paid them off.

How does the "more savings" work? When you turn 65 and retire, you get to travel and he can't because "he didn't save enough"?
Or do you pay for all vacations because you make more?

How do you know you’ll still be married at 65? Or both alive at 65? Coercing a debt free young wife to bail you out of $400,000 in debt makes you a chickenshit mooch.

So does the reverse work? Now they are married, once he pays off "his debt" is his income all his to spend as he sees fit? He pays half the living expenses and she pays the other half? Even if he makes $300K and she makes $75K? Why should he contribute more than half, if there's a chance she will leave him for someone else in 5 years?

Me personally, I choose carefully for getting married, and that includes real discussions about finances and everything else in life. If you are not on a similar page for most things, then don't get married. But I cannot imagine being married to someone who views finances as "theirs" and"mine" We are a team, and as such we do what financially benefits the entire family most. I don't go thru life planning as if my marriage is a sham and will be over in 4-5 years.

OP says her daughter has a good job and no debt. It’s entirely possible she’ll end up making the same if not more than her taker DH by the time he pays off his debt.

Haaa..."her taker DH". Let me guess, you are not happily married with that attitude

As long as her DH has the debt, the family unit (two of them plus any kids) are not getting his full salary to utilize. Doesn't matter who makes more or less in actuality. fact is the sooner the debt is paid off, the sooner the interest stops (typically high interest) and the sooner they can start saving jointly that extra money and building wealth. It's not that difficult to understand

It’s also not difficult to understand that he’s a scumbag for asking her to pay off his debt in one lump sum with her money, and it rightfully gives her own parent pause because he can so easily dump her as soon as the debt is paid. Why he would have the temerity to ask his wife this is something they should be concerned about.

never did it say, "one lump sum"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You decide to marry the person as they are, debts and all.Marriage means you are an economic unit. You vowed to take care of that person through thick and thin. And they vowed to take care of you as well. Are you planning to pay for the person's expenses when they are old and need help for medical reasons (if that person has not saved enough in your 50% scheme of paying for household expenses)? Or do you let the person go unattended? Do you plan to have children and make everything 50% when it comes to their activities/education (even if one partner cannot afford to give the 50%)? Do you plan to split all the housework/child care duties exactly 50%? Or will you work as a team to make a home and life for yourselves because you have made a commitment to do that? If you are not ready to give and sacrifice for another person in order to form a family, you are not ready for marriage.

lol. This is what schemers say so they can con their spouse. This isn't $5,000 in credit card debt from undergrad, it's probably closer to $500,000.

+100. People scream about teamwork and sacrifice when they need to scam the other person. If the DH cared about being fair to his wife he wouldn’t ask this.