Yu Ying (and immersion programs in general)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Undeniably true, yet Congress won't tweak the Federal law on charters to permit two lotteries for immersion schools. Real myopia on the part of lawmakers.

Here in DC, overall, push factors are as strong, or stronger, in drawing parents to immersion charters as pull factors. The overwhelming majority of YY, LAMB, MV and Stokes families are escaping low performing in-boundary schools. Few families choose immersion charters over schools that are strongly high SES. The immersion charters mostly attract parents who wouldn't in fact go for immersion if they had a strong in-boundary school. Oyster is by far DC's strongest immersion program partly because the Oyster families have a strong/mostly high SES non-immersion alternative (Eaton).

This is absolutely not true. Our IB school is Lafayette. We know three other long term YY families in our neighborhood who also passed Lafayette for YY.

Our IB school is also Lafayette and we've lived in the Chevy Chase neighborhood since the 90s. Case in point in the above exchange. The PP didn't claim NO families choose immersion charters over high performing IB schools. The point was that FEW do, because that's true.

There are almost 800 kids at Lafayette and, to my knowledge, no more than a dozen from families that went with YY and/or DCI. I also know several of these families. They don't speak Chinese at home and, unfortunately, the kids don't speak good Mandarin after many years of immersion study. I'm not a native speaker but majored in Chinese in college, have lived in Taiwan, and use Chinese in my work. I choose Lafayette for my kids, speak Chinese with them a lot, and take them to Hope Chinese school for classes where at least half the students are native speakers.

[Anonymous]

We don’t have any interest in YY but we do live IBs for Lafayette and chose another school over it. It is a typical, large, cold, DCPS ‘as usual’ school. 800+ students for an ES is crazy. There is very little diversity and there is very little creative teaching or innovation happening inside those walls. We have many local friends who have children at Lafayette.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We don’t have any interest in YY but we do live IBs for Lafayette and chose another school over it. It is a typical, large, cold, DCPS ‘as usual’ school. 800+ students for an ES is crazy. There is very little diversity and there is very little creative teaching or innovation happening inside those walls. We have many local friends who have children at Lafayette.

What did you guys opt for instead? One of the smaller Wilson feeders, perhaps?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We don’t have any interest in YY but we do live IBs for Lafayette and chose another school over it. It is a typical, large, cold, DCPS ‘as usual’ school. 800+ students for an ES is crazy. There is very little diversity and there is very little creative teaching or innovation happening inside those walls. We have many local friends who have children at Lafayette.

Lafayette mom. Fair points. In Lafayette's defense, our school posts the highest ELA scores in the city year after year.

If the YY kids' Chinese was impressive overall, and the local ethnic community was behind the program, their lagging ELA scores for affluent kids wouldn't be a concern.

I didn't want to risk having my kids go through school with weak communication, reading and writing skills in 2 languages. They speak decent Chinese, score 5s on ELA, and are surely more connected to Chinese culture at Hope and Concordia in the summers than they would have been at YY. We're very fortunate to have the resources to support immersion.

[Anonymous]

+1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All the studies on the benefits of immersion can't alter certain inconvenient truths. Families who embrace these programs but can't support the language learning at home don't tend to get great results unless they can and will pay a bomb to supplement for years and years. If you can and will, go for it.

This is such a load of crap. We're at YY and hardly know any families supplementing, and all of our kids are learning Mandarin well. There are a zillion discussions on here questioning just HOW well they're learning, but we've had what we consider reliable feedback over and over again from both native Chinese speakers we know, and strangers, and native Chinese-speaking educators.

And despite the repeated jabs of a few people, most of us don't need our kids to speak perfect fluent Mandarin by grade 12 (which will likely never happen). But our kids being able to read, write AND speak the language well by then? Amazing, door-opener, we're thrilled.

And to date (with oldest in 5th) we've never hired a Chinese nanny, never paid for extra lessons, never paid for some expensive language camp.

So compare ELA test scores among the charters and DCPS schools, read other threads here, do research of studies online, and talk to real parents and go to open houses and ask your questions. That combo will give you the most rounded info re: your question. But don't believe this silliness about how it's hopeless if you "can't support the language at home". A majority of families are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you can get a spot at YY and are just looking for a pleasant school that teaches more language than language exposure in DCPS non-immersion programs, YY should work.

If you really want the kid to learn to speak, read and write halfway decent Mandarin by age 10 or 12, to value Chinese culture, and to befriend bilingual Chinese-speaking peers, you're going to have to work hard, and to pay plenty, to supplement.

The PP above makes a good point.

Please don't choose YY if the bold is all you're looking for. Please leave the spots for families who are serious about or very focused on their child learning Chinese, whether they "support it in the home" or not.

There are a lot of "pleasant schools that teach more language than language exposure in DCPS non-immersion" schools. Pick one of them to prioritize please.

Signed, the families entering the lottery who would put YY as all of their choices if that was possible because we want our kids to learn Chinese

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Looking for insight from parents of kids in immersion programs or educators/people with knowledge of educational pedagogy and how kids learn. It seems like a great idea to teach kids how to speak another language. My concern, however, is whether doing a full immersion program (like Yu Ying has in PK) inhibits kids' ability to thoroughly learn English. Have people seen kids have issues with being taught in Chinese, for example, for the whole day?

Typically, support in the first language will support the child's ability to learn English. This is a robust research finding across multiple studies. But OP, I think your kids are from English speaking backgrounds, is that right? So you are concerned about their acquisition of academic English in later grades?

The research on English-dominant kids in bilingual programs is less robust and there is less of it. From my observations of kids in that kind of program, I would not be terribly concerned, unless you have specific concerns related to language acquisition. Do you have any other languages yourself? For people that don't, I think it can be hard to understand that this is very ordinary -- the majority of people in the world are able to manage in more than one language, and I wouldn't have concerns that your kid would not be able to do this. Kids have squishy brains and can adapt pretty easily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the studies on the benefits of immersion can't alter certain inconvenient truths. Families who embrace these programs but can't support the language learning at home don't tend to get great results unless they can and will pay a bomb to supplement for years and years. If you can and will, go for it.

This is such a load of crap. We're at YY and hardly know any families supplementing, and all of our kids are learning Mandarin well. There are a zillion discussions on here questioning just HOW well they're learning, but we've had what we consider reliable feedback over and over again from both native Chinese speakers we know, and strangers, and native Chinese-speaking educators.

And despite the repeated jabs of a few people, most of us don't need our kids to speak perfect fluent Mandarin by grade 12 (which will likely never happen). But our kids being able to read, write AND speak the language well by then? Amazing, door-opener, we're thrilled.

And to date (with oldest in 5th) we've never hired a Chinese nanny, never paid for extra lessons, never paid for some expensive language camp.

So compare ELA test scores among the charters and DCPS schools, read other threads here, do research of studies online, and talk to real parents and go to open houses and ask your questions. That combo will give you the most rounded info re: your question. But don't believe this silliness about how it's hopeless if you "can't support the language at home". A majority of families are not.

If you speak Mandarin fluently, we'll believe you.

I speak Mandarin to my kids at home in NW as a native speaker, and try only to accept it in return. I take my kids to a heritage program in the burbs on weekends. My Mandarin-speaking MIL lives with us to help teach the kids Mandarin. I don't think my kids are learning Mandarin "well." No, they need more work to stop my my relatives from complaining that their Mandarin isn't that great.

Believe what you want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the studies on the benefits of immersion can't alter certain inconvenient truths. Families who embrace these programs but can't support the language learning at home don't tend to get great results unless they can and will pay a bomb to supplement for years and years. If you can and will, go for it.

This is such a load of crap. We're at YY and hardly know any families supplementing, and all of our kids are learning Mandarin well. There are a zillion discussions on here questioning just HOW well they're learning, but we've had what we consider reliable feedback over and over again from both native Chinese speakers we know, and strangers, and native Chinese-speaking educators.

And despite the repeated jabs of a few people, most of us don't need our kids to speak perfect fluent Mandarin by grade 12 (which will likely never happen). But our kids being able to read, write AND speak the language well by then? Amazing, door-opener, we're thrilled.

And to date (with oldest in 5th) we've never hired a Chinese nanny, never paid for extra lessons, never paid for some expensive language camp.

So compare ELA test scores among the charters and DCPS schools, read other threads here, do research of studies online, and talk to real parents and go to open houses and ask your questions. That combo will give you the most rounded info re: your question. But don't believe this silliness about how it's hopeless if you "can't support the language at home". A majority of families are not.

If you speak Mandarin fluently, we'll believe you.

I speak Mandarin to my kids at home in NW as a native speaker, and try only to accept it in return. I take my kids to a heritage program in the burbs on weekends. My Mandarin-speaking MIL lives with us to help teach the kids Mandarin. I don't think my kids are learning Mandarin "well." No, they need more work to stop my my relatives from complaining that their Mandarin isn't that great.

Believe what you want.

It does sound like you have very high standards, know what you want, and are working to make it happen for your kids. It also sounds like PP is doing the same and her reasonable standards are being met for her children as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the studies on the benefits of immersion can't alter certain inconvenient truths. Families who embrace these programs but can't support the language learning at home don't tend to get great results unless they can and will pay a bomb to supplement for years and years. If you can and will, go for it.

This is such a load of crap. We're at YY and hardly know any families supplementing, and all of our kids are learning Mandarin well. There are a zillion discussions on here questioning just HOW well they're learning, but we've had what we consider reliable feedback over and over again from both native Chinese speakers we know, and strangers, and native Chinese-speaking educators.

And despite the repeated jabs of a few people, most of us don't need our kids to speak perfect fluent Mandarin by grade 12 (which will likely never happen). But our kids being able to read, write AND speak the language well by then? Amazing, door-opener, we're thrilled.

And to date (with oldest in 5th) we've never hired a Chinese nanny, never paid for extra lessons, never paid for some expensive language camp.

So compare ELA test scores among the charters and DCPS schools, read other threads here, do research of studies online, and talk to real parents and go to open houses and ask your questions. That combo will give you the most rounded info re: your question. But don't believe this silliness about how it's hopeless if you "can't support the language at home". A majority of families are not.

This is the kind of post you get from a school where 1-2% of the kids are fully English-Chinese bilingual. From where I sit, it's an insular, strangely self-satisfied place.

But the waiting list is long and most of the parents seem thrilled with the kids' Mandarin.

If you're a Chinese speaker, I find it works best to be polite w/YY parents about the kids' Chinese and leave it at that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the studies on the benefits of immersion can't alter certain inconvenient truths. Families who embrace these programs but can't support the language learning at home don't tend to get great results unless they can and will pay a bomb to supplement for years and years. If you can and will, go for it.

This is such a load of crap. We're at YY and hardly know any families supplementing, and all of our kids are learning Mandarin well. There are a zillion discussions on here questioning just HOW well they're learning, but we've had what we consider reliable feedback over and over again from both native Chinese speakers we know, and strangers, and native Chinese-speaking educators.

And despite the repeated jabs of a few people, most of us don't need our kids to speak perfect fluent Mandarin by grade 12 (which will likely never happen). But our kids being able to read, write AND speak the language well by then? Amazing, door-opener, we're thrilled.

And to date (with oldest in 5th) we've never hired a Chinese nanny, never paid for extra lessons, never paid for some expensive language camp.

So compare ELA test scores among the charters and DCPS schools, read other threads here, do research of studies online, and talk to real parents and go to open houses and ask your questions. That combo will give you the most rounded info re: your question. But don't believe this silliness about how it's hopeless if you "can't support the language at home". A majority of families are not.

This is the kind of post you get from a school where 1-2% of the kids are fully English-Chinese bilingual. From where I sit, it's an insular, strangely self-satisfied place.

But the waiting list is long and most of the parents seem thrilled with the kids' Mandarin.

If you're a Chinese speaker, I find it works best to be polite w/YY parents about the kids' Chinese and leave it at that.

IF ONLY you would leave it at that instead of continually derailing every single thread (this one is supposed to be about English language skills) with your repeat posts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These threads seem to gravitate toward the idea that if a child doesn't become totally fluent, immersion programs aren't worth it. In my opinion, the exposure is fantastic for a kid regardless of the degree of fluency. I started French when I was 8 and didn't have anything like immersion, but taking those classes gave me a facility in French that I was able to develop as an adult, and a general comfort with learning languages that opened a lot of doors for me in my life. So as a parent of a child in an immersion school, I'm not that concerned about whether my kid is fluent by 5th grade -- I am just happy that he will have this tool in his arsenal.

OK, but let's not whitewash the situation. Totally fluent isn't the goal. Some of us are not impressed with how well DCI kids can speak the languages they've learning for years and years.

I'm Canadian and speak French decently. When I visited DCI recently and tried to communicate in basic French with a dozen students I was introduced to as "advanced French learners," I was amazed by how poorly they spoke and seemed to understand. I was told that most had started learning French at age 4-6.

OK, the charters can't recruit native speaking students as they'd like. But couldn't they LINK UP with fluent peers elsewhere using technology? Link up with heritage school students in the DC suburbs? Fundraise to get kids to full immersion summer camps?

What good does it do the kids to pretend that that 50% immersion is working if it's....not!?

I call bs. In what context did you visit trhe school and get matched with advanced French students? You are some visiting dignitary? Nope, I think you're the same person bashing YY and the Chinese at DCI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These threads seem to gravitate toward the idea that if a child doesn't become totally fluent, immersion programs aren't worth it. In my opinion, the exposure is fantastic for a kid regardless of the degree of fluency. I started French when I was 8 and didn't have anything like immersion, but taking those classes gave me a facility in French that I was able to develop as an adult, and a general comfort with learning languages that opened a lot of doors for me in my life. So as a parent of a child in an immersion school, I'm not that concerned about whether my kid is fluent by 5th grade -- I am just happy that he will have this tool in his arsenal.

OK, but let's not whitewash the situation. Totally fluent isn't the goal. Some of us are not impressed with how well DCI kids can speak the languages they've learning for years and years.

I'm Canadian and speak French decently. When I visited DCI recently and tried to communicate in basic French with a dozen students I was introduced to as "advanced French learners," I was amazed by how poorly they spoke and seemed to understand. I was told that most had started learning French at age 4-6.

OK, the charters can't recruit native speaking students as they'd like. But couldn't they LINK UP with fluent peers elsewhere using technology? Link up with heritage school students in the DC suburbs? Fundraise to get kids to full immersion summer camps?

What good does it do the kids to pretend that that 50% immersion is working if it's....not!?

I call bs. In what context did you visit trhe school and get matched with advanced French students? You are some visiting dignitary? Nope, I think you're the same person bashing YY and the Chinese at DCI.

I just laughed so hard at this because this was my same thought. He's the prince of France obviously!

This is probably the same person who says racist stuff about the Latinx students at DCI too.