My dog hates the neighbors dog

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you need to be careful with the timing of treats - you don't want to end up rewarding your dog for bad behaviors.

We had a large poodle who lost his shit all the time with certain dogs (loved others). If on a walk and uncertain of what he'd do, I'd distract him, keep him on the side of me furthest from the other dog, I'd also get him to sit and then praise him for being so good. All the while with my back to the other dog, blocking my dog's sight of it. This works well and is not traumatic.

You aren't rewarding bad behavior..you are changing how he feels about his trigger from negative to positive. Ooh I get really good treats when I see this dog! But he goes away the treats go away. Maybe he isn't so bad after all!

It's called counter conditioning. Perhaps with a trainer ypu can work with your neighbor/dog so he can learn how to ignore!

I think if that's what you're calling it, it needs to be done very carefully with a very good trainer, otherwise you are literally telling your dog "oh you're losing your shit, that's great, have a treat"

Ok it is obvious you didn't understand what I wrote. Dogs who are reactive have very big emotions based on fear and anxiety. You want them to associate the trigger with something good happening. So at first every time you see the trigger you give the dog high value treats. Then the dog will start looking at you for the treat. When the dog is over threshold and is barking and lunging than it is too late. My dog would refuse treats when he was in that state. So there is no reward for 'losing your shit' as you so nicely put it.

The goal is to have the dog not react and therefore you are paying them when they do not react. You then build in distance ( decrease the distance the dog can get to the trigger and duration how long they can be in the presence of the trigger)

If in the end, the behavior you do not want stops what is wrong with rewarding them?

No I totally understood.

Ok we disagree them. Giving a reward for not reacting is giving them a reward for doing the right thing. But you think I give a reward when they bark and lunge ( which I do not) when my dog is barking and lunging he has zero interest in food. I have to catch him before.

Still think I'm wrong?

Honestly, I've just completely lost interest in this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The previous pooping and off leash info is irrelevant so not really sure why you shared it. This dog has not been aggressive to you or your dog so you need to work on your dogs behavior. I know you know that but all the history you shared seems to show you have a bias against this dog and its owners. Maybe your dog senses this.

agree the first part of OP post was strange.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you need to be careful with the timing of treats - you don't want to end up rewarding your dog for bad behaviors.

We had a large poodle who lost his shit all the time with certain dogs (loved others). If on a walk and uncertain of what he'd do, I'd distract him, keep him on the side of me furthest from the other dog, I'd also get him to sit and then praise him for being so good. All the while with my back to the other dog, blocking my dog's sight of it. This works well and is not traumatic.

You aren't rewarding bad behavior..you are changing how he feels about his trigger from negative to positive. Ooh I get really good treats when I see this dog! But he goes away the treats go away. Maybe he isn't so bad after all!

It's called counter conditioning. Perhaps with a trainer ypu can work with your neighbor/dog so he can learn how to ignore!

I think if that's what you're calling it, it needs to be done very carefully with a very good trainer, otherwise you are literally telling your dog "oh you're losing your shit, that's great, have a treat"

Ok it is obvious you didn't understand what I wrote. Dogs who are reactive have very big emotions based on fear and anxiety. You want them to associate the trigger with something good happening. So at first every time you see the trigger you give the dog high value treats. Then the dog will start looking at you for the treat. When the dog is over threshold and is barking and lunging than it is too late. My dog would refuse treats when he was in that state. So there is no reward for 'losing your shit' as you so nicely put it.

The goal is to have the dog not react and therefore you are paying them when they do not react. You then build in distance ( decrease the distance the dog can get to the trigger and duration how long they can be in the presence of the trigger)

If in the end, the behavior you do not want stops what is wrong with rewarding them?

No I totally understood.

Ok we disagree them. Giving a reward for not reacting is giving them a reward for doing the right thing. But you think I give a reward when they bark and lunge ( which I do not) when my dog is barking and lunging he has zero interest in food. I have to catch him before.

Still think I'm wrong?

Honestly, I've just completely lost interest in this.

Good to know!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The previous pooping and off leash info is irrelevant so not really sure why you shared it. This dog has not been aggressive to you or your dog so you need to work on your dogs behavior. I know you know that but all the history you shared seems to show you have a bias against this dog and its owners. Maybe your dog senses this.

agree the first part of OP post was strange.

It was to make sure everyone knew the neighbors were bad people for having a pitbull, while she has a poodle

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The previous pooping and off leash info is irrelevant so not really sure why you shared it. This dog has not been aggressive to you or your dog so you need to work on your dogs behavior. I know you know that but all the history you shared seems to show you have a bias against this dog and its owners. Maybe your dog senses this.

agree the first part of OP post was strange.

It was to make sure everyone knew the neighbors were bad people for having a pitbull, while she has a poodle

The funny thing is now the neighbors have a better behaved dog! Oh the irony

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The previous pooping and off leash info is irrelevant so not really sure why you shared it. This dog has not been aggressive to you or your dog so you need to work on your dogs behavior. I know you know that but all the history you shared seems to show you have a bias against this dog and its owners. Maybe your dog senses this.

agree the first part of OP post was strange.

It was to make sure everyone knew the neighbors were bad people for having a pitbull, while she has a poodle

OP here. You're reading way too much into my post. The breed of their dog has nothing to do with why they are horrible neighbors. We live in DC, so they aren't doing anything wrong by owning a pit bull. They aren't banned here or anything. I could write paragraphs of how awful these people have been, that have nothing to do with them owning a dog.

[Anonymous]

So I've fostered reactive dogs before (though normally generally reactive, not to one specific dog). The biggest thing we work on is "look at them, look at me, treat". So in my example, we'd sit at a semi-busy walking corner, far enough away that there would be no way for the dog to touch another pup. Sit, and wait (do some other training tricks while you wait). When another dog comes by, they should look at the other dog, and I say "YES!" the dog looks at me, gets a treat. So he learns that he can notice another dog, but as long as he looks back at me and pays attention to me, he gets a treat.

I'm not 100% sure if this would be effective for you since it's just this one dog, but if you know his route, you could set up kitty corner and try that. Or further away if he's too reactive even that close. Eventually you get closer and closer and he shouldn't have an issue. Definitely use high value treats! I like to use cut up hot dogs in a ziplock and maybe a few pieces of cheese thrown in. Keep it in the fridge and take it out for only this training.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So I've fostered reactive dogs before (though normally generally reactive, not to one specific dog). The biggest thing we work on is "look at them, look at me, treat". So in my example, we'd sit at a semi-busy walking corner, far enough away that there would be no way for the dog to touch another pup. Sit, and wait (do some other training tricks while you wait). When another dog comes by, they should look at the other dog, and I say "YES!" the dog looks at me, gets a treat. So he learns that he can notice another dog, but as long as he looks back at me and pays attention to me, he gets a treat.

I'm not 100% sure if this would be effective for you since it's just this one dog, but if you know his route, you could set up kitty corner and try that. Or further away if he's too reactive even that close. Eventually you get closer and closer and he shouldn't have an issue. Definitely use high value treats! I like to use cut up hot dogs in a ziplock and maybe a few pieces of cheese thrown in. Keep it in the fridge and take it out for only this training.

That's what I wrote on page 2 but, someone told me I was 'rewarding' bad behavior and then when they couldn't come up with a rebuttal they said the 'lost interest' So of course I agree with you!

OP Another idea is you get something of the 'hated' dog smell and introduce it to your dog. Perhaps his fur or a blanket so he knows the smell. It might work if it seems familiar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I've fostered reactive dogs before (though normally generally reactive, not to one specific dog). The biggest thing we work on is "look at them, look at me, treat". So in my example, we'd sit at a semi-busy walking corner, far enough away that there would be no way for the dog to touch another pup. Sit, and wait (do some other training tricks while you wait). When another dog comes by, they should look at the other dog, and I say "YES!" the dog looks at me, gets a treat. So he learns that he can notice another dog, but as long as he looks back at me and pays attention to me, he gets a treat.

I'm not 100% sure if this would be effective for you since it's just this one dog, but if you know his route, you could set up kitty corner and try that. Or further away if he's too reactive even that close. Eventually you get closer and closer and he shouldn't have an issue. Definitely use high value treats! I like to use cut up hot dogs in a ziplock and maybe a few pieces of cheese thrown in. Keep it in the fridge and take it out for only this training.

That's what I wrote on page 2 but, someone told me I was 'rewarding' bad behavior and then when they couldn't come up with a rebuttal they said the 'lost interest' So of course I agree with you!

OP Another idea is you get something of the 'hated' dog smell and introduce it to your dog. Perhaps his fur or a blanket so he knows the smell. It might work if it seems familiar.

I appreciate your suggestion and the pp poster too. I'm not friendly with the neighbor, so coordinating with him is impossible. But you've both given me good suggestions and I have some ideas now. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I've fostered reactive dogs before (though normally generally reactive, not to one specific dog). The biggest thing we work on is "look at them, look at me, treat". So in my example, we'd sit at a semi-busy walking corner, far enough away that there would be no way for the dog to touch another pup. Sit, and wait (do some other training tricks while you wait). When another dog comes by, they should look at the other dog, and I say "YES!" the dog looks at me, gets a treat. So he learns that he can notice another dog, but as long as he looks back at me and pays attention to me, he gets a treat.

I'm not 100% sure if this would be effective for you since it's just this one dog, but if you know his route, you could set up kitty corner and try that. Or further away if he's too reactive even that close. Eventually you get closer and closer and he shouldn't have an issue. Definitely use high value treats! I like to use cut up hot dogs in a ziplock and maybe a few pieces of cheese thrown in. Keep it in the fridge and take it out for only this training.

That's what I wrote on page 2 but, someone told me I was 'rewarding' bad behavior and then when they couldn't come up with a rebuttal they said the 'lost interest' So of course I agree with you!

OP Another idea is you get something of the 'hated' dog smell and introduce it to your dog. Perhaps his fur or a blanket so he knows the smell. It might work if it seems familiar.

Stick it in your butt

[Anonymous]

I would bet that the neighbor dog is not neutered, as two unaltered male dogs makes a real flash point. Also sounds like the way they handled the dog in early years is in keeping with typical dog owners who don’t alter.

But, even if the dog is neutered, yours being unaltered at this age he is coming into young adulthood and his hormones are strong. I’m sure you waited to get him fixed for optimal bone development etc. but this is an expected resulting behavior in 1-2 year old male dogs.

The neighbor, with whom you are not friendly and who has been a problem neighbor raises your BP however slightly it is a response that highly intelligent dogs who are closely bonded to owner will definitely react to - your emotions were heightened and your poodle sensed that and perceived a threat. Dogs are incredibly perceptive in this way.

Then the neighbor put his dog in a sit and they both stared at you and your dog. To a dog, a stare like that is a major threat behavior and it will further trigger a dog who is already heightened and reactive. Maybe neighbor was trying to better control his dog, but standing on perimeter of your property and staring was not a good choice - he should have brought his dog to a close heel and moved along.

Don’t stress out about this too much. You have a highly intelligent (one of the most intelligent breeds) unaltered young adult male dog and some reactivity in limited situations is not uncommon or a sign of any badness in the dog. He is protective; he is meant to be exactly that. We domesticated them for that very purpose, among others.

I would not worry about trying to make your dog friendly with this neighbor’s dog. Just work on limiting interaction and not rewarding reactivity. If he is not reactive with most other dogs he just doesn’t like this one and that happens. That dog might be giving off a vibe that other dogs don’t like. Some dogs are a-holes just like some people - and they often run in pairs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would bet that the neighbor dog is not neutered, as two unaltered male dogs makes a real flash point. Also sounds like the way they handled the dog in early years is in keeping with typical dog owners who don’t alter.

But, even if the dog is neutered, yours being unaltered at this age he is coming into young adulthood and his hormones are strong. I’m sure you waited to get him fixed for optimal bone development etc. but this is an expected resulting behavior in 1-2 year old male dogs.

The neighbor, with whom you are not friendly and who has been a problem neighbor raises your BP however slightly it is a response that highly intelligent dogs who are closely bonded to owner will definitely react to - your emotions were heightened and your poodle sensed that and perceived a threat. Dogs are incredibly perceptive in this way.

Then the neighbor put his dog in a sit and they both stared at you and your dog. To a dog, a stare like that is a major threat behavior and it will further trigger a dog who is already heightened and reactive. Maybe neighbor was trying to better control his dog, but standing on perimeter of your property and staring was not a good choice - he should have brought his dog to a close heel and moved along.

Don’t stress out about this too much. You have a highly intelligent (one of the most intelligent breeds) unaltered young adult male dog and some reactivity in limited situations is not uncommon or a sign of any badness in the dog. He is protective; he is meant to be exactly that. We domesticated them for that very purpose, among others.

I would not worry about trying to make your dog friendly with this neighbor’s dog. Just work on limiting interaction and not rewarding reactivity. If he is not reactive with most other dogs he just doesn’t like this one and that happens. That dog might be giving off a vibe that other dogs don’t like. Some dogs are a-holes just like some people - and they often run in pairs.

Not all dogs like all other dogs, this is true. But OPs dog almost dragged her off her feet trying to attack this other dog. That is a huge issue. You seem to be glossing over how dangerous this is, including the dog almost injuring himself trying to attack through a window/shutters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So I've fostered reactive dogs before (though normally generally reactive, not to one specific dog). The biggest thing we work on is "look at them, look at me, treat". So in my example, we'd sit at a semi-busy walking corner, far enough away that there would be no way for the dog to touch another pup. Sit, and wait (do some other training tricks while you wait). When another dog comes by, they should look at the other dog, and I say "YES!" the dog looks at me, gets a treat. So he learns that he can notice another dog, but as long as he looks back at me and pays attention to me, he gets a treat.

I'm not 100% sure if this would be effective for you since it's just this one dog, but if you know his route, you could set up kitty corner and try that. Or further away if he's too reactive even that close. Eventually you get closer and closer and he shouldn't have an issue. Definitely use high value treats! I like to use cut up hot dogs in a ziplock and maybe a few pieces of cheese thrown in. Keep it in the fridge and take it out for only this training.

OP, this is really the answer. You need to decondition your dog's response and treats are really the only effective way. The timing of the treats is crucial though and you have to use baby steps. I used this online training to help my dog who had horrible reactivity to several particular dogs in the neighborhood. She would go crazy whenever she saw them. The worst was when she would pass another dog who was also reactive. Over several months I've gotten to the point where she can walk by any dog (on opposite sides of the street) and completely ignore them, even if the other dog is being reactive. It's been a game changer.

https://spiritdogtraining.com/tackling-reactivity-course/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I've fostered reactive dogs before (though normally generally reactive, not to one specific dog). The biggest thing we work on is "look at them, look at me, treat". So in my example, we'd sit at a semi-busy walking corner, far enough away that there would be no way for the dog to touch another pup. Sit, and wait (do some other training tricks while you wait). When another dog comes by, they should look at the other dog, and I say "YES!" the dog looks at me, gets a treat. So he learns that he can notice another dog, but as long as he looks back at me and pays attention to me, he gets a treat.

I'm not 100% sure if this would be effective for you since it's just this one dog, but if you know his route, you could set up kitty corner and try that. Or further away if he's too reactive even that close. Eventually you get closer and closer and he shouldn't have an issue. Definitely use high value treats! I like to use cut up hot dogs in a ziplock and maybe a few pieces of cheese thrown in. Keep it in the fridge and take it out for only this training.

That's what I wrote on page 2 but, someone told me I was 'rewarding' bad behavior and then when they couldn't come up with a rebuttal they said the 'lost interest' So of course I agree with you!

OP Another idea is you get something of the 'hated' dog smell and introduce it to your dog. Perhaps his fur or a blanket so he knows the smell. It might work if it seems familiar.

Stick it in your butt

What a mature and kind response!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would bet that the neighbor dog is not neutered, as two unaltered male dogs makes a real flash point. Also sounds like the way they handled the dog in early years is in keeping with typical dog owners who don’t alter.

But, even if the dog is neutered, yours being unaltered at this age he is coming into young adulthood and his hormones are strong. I’m sure you waited to get him fixed for optimal bone development etc. but this is an expected resulting behavior in 1-2 year old male dogs.

The neighbor, with whom you are not friendly and who has been a problem neighbor raises your BP however slightly it is a response that highly intelligent dogs who are closely bonded to owner will definitely react to - your emotions were heightened and your poodle sensed that and perceived a threat. Dogs are incredibly perceptive in this way.

Then the neighbor put his dog in a sit and they both stared at you and your dog. To a dog, a stare like that is a major threat behavior and it will further trigger a dog who is already heightened and reactive. Maybe neighbor was trying to better control his dog, but standing on perimeter of your property and staring was not a good choice - he should have brought his dog to a close heel and moved along.

Don’t stress out about this too much. You have a highly intelligent (one of the most intelligent breeds) unaltered young adult male dog and some reactivity in limited situations is not uncommon or a sign of any badness in the dog. He is protective; he is meant to be exactly that. We domesticated them for that very purpose, among others.

I would not worry about trying to make your dog friendly with this neighbor’s dog. Just work on limiting interaction and not rewarding reactivity. If he is not reactive with most other dogs he just doesn’t like this one and that happens. That dog might be giving off a vibe that other dogs don’t like. Some dogs are a-holes just like some people - and they often run in pairs.

OP here. I asked my ex, who lived with me for many years, and he said the neighbor dog is not neutered. My dog goes in next week for his. I waited until two at the advice of my veterinarian.

I definitely don't want my dog and the neighbor's dog to be friends. My goal is to be able to co-exist without my dog losing his shit every time he sees the dog walk by our house, or they cross paths.

Thanks for the insight. My dog is more attached to me than anyone else in my household. My angst for this neighbor has lessened over the years, at least I thought it had, as their problematic behavior has mostly stopped. But there is a long history with them, so it makes sense that I unintentionally respond emotionally to seeing the dog or the man. And I've always been a little afraid of their dog. Not because he's ever acted aggressively, but because they used to have him off-leash all the time. Sometimes, I'd come out of my house, turn, and see this large dog trotting down the sidewalk right towards me. It was a scary feeling. At the time, I had young kids, so that worried me, too.