Alcohol use and aging, ill dad

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spend that money on a hobby. Get him out of the house more. If he’s still walking you’re doing well, keep it that way.

He's barely walking - can only stand for a couple of minutes. His hobbies are attending theater, watching the History Channel, watching CNN and complaining about Trump. He also goes out to restaurants with my stepmom and their small group of friends. He goes to church with my stepmom but won't join "groups" - was never his thing. He was a lifelong boater on the Great Lakes but had to sell their boat a couple of years ago due to his health issues. It is what it is - he's not going to develop a new hobby at this stage of his life.

Ultimately since my stepmom controls access and will be the one that has to deal with the consequences it's her decision along with my dad.

I don’t mean to be personal, but this sounds like co-dependency and enabling.

If it’s up to your mother, does she want your opinion? Did she ask for it! She may feel very caught between a rock and a hard place. Supporting her in a decision to hold the line could be important if that’s what she decides.

Alcoholics Anonymous is controversial on DCUM, but it is free, available in multiple Zoom meetings globally, and many people find it enlightening and fun. Even the precept that a person needs “a desire to stop drinking” is flexible at the outset. Especially for a non-joiner, the first time can be scary, but it is genuinely anonymous (you can turn off your Zoom camera and even just listen), and he may well hear things he can identify with that will help him understand. There is a difference between being “dry” like he is now, and in recovery. And if AA’s not the thing there are other programs.

This is a petpeeve of mine but I've said "stepmom" in each of my posts and respondents keep saying "mom". My dad will absolutely not go to an AA meeting - doesn't believe he has/had a drinking problem. Yes - my stepmom has enabled this for years and was in deep denial. While he was hospitalized this summer my brother and I learned for the first time how much he was drinking and how much she was buying. She really believed because she left bottles of wine in the trunk of the car in the garage, instead of bringing it into the house, she was somehow helping him moderate the drinking.

You are considering actively joining the enabling, OP.

https://www.verywellmind.com/how-to-stop-enabling-an-alcoholic-63083

Offer to attend Zoom Al Anon meetings with stepmom. Bro can join too, the beauty of the interwebs. ACOA meetings for you and your brother would be very beneficial.

And contact his doctor and convey that he is a long term alcoholic now sober so he is not enabling out of ignorance. I'd consult with an addiction medicine doctor as well.

[Anonymous]

BTDT, he will go back to drinking. At that age it is really hard for both of them to change their ways. Sure it will be a bottle a week, then two, then three.

Even if you say the family is adament he doesn't drink he will.

My father, very functioning alcoholic, would sober up during his chemo treatments which were really hard on him then pick up the drink again when he was "feeling better." While we thought he may be dying he would muster the energy to drive to the liquor store. It was crazy that he could do that and nothing else. In the end it was a fall that got him. Not the best way to go but faster than cancer and congestive heart failure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you and the rest of the family doesn't get to have an opinion and I am appalled it's even a topic of discussion.

+1

signed, the daughter of an alcoholic

Why not when I've been asked for my opinion?

As the daughter of an alcoholic in his late 70s, I’m surprised you are still so vested in this. I essentially don’t care if my dad drinks or not. I would love him to not drink and drive but I have zero control. If he drinks himself to death. Fine. If he gets sober, fine. I don’t care.

I think you need to do your own work to unpack why you have any vested interest.

I literally had no idea until he was well into retirement. Was never noticeably drunk when we were kids or young adults. He was an active and present dad. Because my parents were divorced I was only at my dad's 2-3 nights a week but we went on vacations together, etc. Never saw him drunk. My stepmom recently told me when he was working he'd stop in the AM and have an "eye opener" on his way to work and a drink with buddies before he got home. I had no idea. I'm vested in how the next several years play out for my dad and stepmom because I love them and care about them.

[Anonymous]

Your opinion is insignificant in the face of his addiction and her co-dependence.

Offer to attend Al Anon meetings in person or online with step mom.

https://al-anon.org/

Read some of the literature and go to meetings, educate yourselves on your roles here. The patterns are replicated in other areas of your life, not just re: your dad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you and the rest of the family doesn't get to have an opinion and I am appalled it's even a topic of discussion.

+1

signed, the daughter of an alcoholic

Why not when I've been asked for my opinion?

As the daughter of an alcoholic in his late 70s, I’m surprised you are still so vested in this. I essentially don’t care if my dad drinks or not. I would love him to not drink and drive but I have zero control. If he drinks himself to death. Fine. If he gets sober, fine. I don’t care.

I think you need to do your own work to unpack why you have any vested interest.

I literally had no idea until he was well into retirement. Was never noticeably drunk when we were kids or young adults. He was an active and present dad. Because my parents were divorced I was only at my dad's 2-3 nights a week but we went on vacations together, etc. Never saw him drunk. My stepmom recently told me when he was working he'd stop in the AM and have an "eye opener" on his way to work and a drink with buddies before he got home. I had no idea. I'm vested in how the next several years play out for my dad and stepmom because I love them and care about them.

Go to Al Anon with stepmom. There are daily online meetings or if you are in the same area, you could attend in person.

Read stories here re: how enabling his active alcoholism is likely to go

https://www.reddit.com/r/AlAnon/

You HAVE been impacted, you may not realize how https://adultchildren.org/newcomer/am-i-an-adult-child/ read some of the literature.

How can you be both shocked and horrified about his alcoholism and interested in enabling it to continue? Or want to be so in the middle? You seem to have a lot to unpack.

Attend Al Anon today or this weekend with stepmom. Online or in person.

[Anonymous]

https://coda.org/

You have been shaped by this more than you may understand, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's so interesting that the replies are almost evenly split between "let the old man do what he wants - stop micromanaging his life!" and "absolutely not - he will certainly devolve into needing to drink increasing quantities causing misery and pain for himself and family." Curious that folks see it as so black and white - with little room for nuance.

Addiction is not about nuance.

The man drank on the way to work previously.

The division may be between those who have experience with addiction and those who don't.

OP, why do you think your opinion holds more weight than long term alcoholism? By family, do you mean your brother? Do you think stepmom's longterm codependence and enabling is going to easily change? Besides supporting recovery work for stepmom and engaging in it yourself, why do you see yourself as in the middle of this? That they are even "negotiating" means without active recovery work she will actively enable and he will be back into active addiction soon if not already. That is a given. Educate yourself re: addiction and codependence.

[Anonymous]

If he hasn't been drinking and is doing good WHY would you want to encourage him to drink again?!

[Anonymous]

Have you and your brother and stepmom considered an intervention to try to get him into treatment?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If he hasn't been drinking and is doing good WHY would you want to encourage him to drink again?!

Very profound question.

Codependence and enabling seem strong in BOTH OP and stepmom.

Those who have lived with alcoholism are profoundly shaped by it and can become hooked on the chaos themselves or are stuck in the mode of pleasing the alcoholic.

If the family consensus is to discourage, why take a different tack, OP? The same one as only stepmom who you say is strongly in denial?

Him actively drinking again will destroy any quality of life in their final years together. She cannot "moderate" a long term addiction and there will be constant conflict, along with the difficulty of living with an alcoholic not in recovery (meaning not just not drinking but dealing with issues and behavior patterns).

If you care about them, why would YOU enable with your encouragement, OP? You have some very unhealthy dynamics and a disconnect between your recounting of their behavior and your emotional reaction.

ACoA or Coda could be very helpful to you, along with Al Anon.

[Anonymous]

Taking Action
If you know an older alcoholic, take action to help yourself and the alcoholic. You can seek help from an alcoholism counselor or Al-Anon to cope with your feelings. You can begin allowing the alcoholic to suffer the consequences of his/her drinking. A competent professional can use resulting crises to break through defensive behaviors and help the older person realize his/her problem.

You need to be supportive of the older alcoholic without enabling her/his drinking to continue. Try to convey these beliefs to the older alcoholic:

You believe in the strengths and potential of the older person.
You are hopeful that the person can recover.
You care about the person and want him/her to receive help.
You will be nonjudgmental about the person's alcohol abuse but no longer supportive of its consequences.
You will learn about the disease and encourage the older person to do so.

Finding Help
For the older alcoholic, you can seek help from a community resource person to refer the alcoholic to appropriate care.

https://seniornavigator.org/article/12411/alcoholism-and-older-adult

That he is doing well and that anyone is considering enabling him to actively drink (think it's just you and step mom?) shows a lot of sickness in the family system. It's not love. Would you buy him cocaine with his physical health issues?

I think you have a LOT of denial yourself, OP. Not just about your dad but about how unhealthy patterns and dynamics in the family have shaped you and continue to control your thinking, re: dad and step mom and inevitably in other areas of your life. You say everyone else is opposed.

Use this as a wake up call and begin to gain self awareness. Do you tend to be a people pleaser? Driven to "keep the peace?" etc., etc.

Why is an intervention off the table and enabling his addiction the choice being considered instead?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Spend that money on a hobby. Get him out of the house more. If he’s still walking you’re doing well, keep it that way.

She says he can’t feel his feet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If he hasn't been drinking and is doing good WHY would you want to encourage him to drink again?!

She is not “encouraging “ him.

She wonders if he should be allowed to make this call himself, that is to be autonomous in his final months/years on this planet.

[Anonymous]

It’s a nightmare for caregivers. If his health is in decline, he’s likely to become severely agitated, aggressive and/or fall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spend that money on a hobby. Get him out of the house more. If he’s still walking you’re doing well, keep it that way.

She says he can’t feel his feet.

He could take up adult coloring, or games online, or join a book club with zoom meetings, or any number of other hobbies or activities that neuropathy doesn’t prohibit (unless he has very bad neuropathy in his hands, then maybe coloring would be a challenge).