Mom Cliques. I had no idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d also feel weird if I went somewhere 15+ other women were having lunch and I hadn’t been included. I think other posters are delusional if they think this wouldn’t affect them in the slightest.

That said I have no interest in developing friendships with other moms from school. I do my own thing and my social life doesn’t revolve around school events, volunteering or my kids.

It wouldn’t. I actually think it is delusional to be bothered by this. No one did anything wrong or weird, except OP

You sound like a peach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

NP. No, the PP is correct. So many people in this thread tying themselves into knots dreaming up scenarios to gaslight OP. And anyone who tries to be understanding towards her. You guys are the ones who are weirdly invested in defending mom cliques.

The lack of empathy and sometimes outright hostility on the part of some PPs lends credence to the idea of mom cliques. So desperate to defend your right to exclude.

DP. Conversely, many are desperate to portray the OP as some poor victim. Read the initial post again. A few times if necessary. (It’s poorly written.) She was laughing her a** off. She assumed that everyone else was “uber uncomfortable” by her presence. She couldn’t wait to see what kind of awkwardness would ensure at the bus stop. OP comes off like a Real Housewife. She likes to create drama where it doesn’t need to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

NP. No, the PP is correct. So many people in this thread tying themselves into knots dreaming up scenarios to gaslight OP. And anyone who tries to be understanding towards her. You guys are the ones who are weirdly invested in defending mom cliques.

The lack of empathy and sometimes outright hostility on the part of some PPs lends credence to the idea of mom cliques. So desperate to defend your right to exclude.

Gaslight OP? She admittedly doesn't even know all these people. Lots of people disagree with you here. What kind of hubris does it take to think you'll be invited to everything all the time even if you're not friendly with this larger group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

NP. No, the PP is correct. So many people in this thread tying themselves into knots dreaming up scenarios to gaslight OP. And anyone who tries to be understanding towards her. You guys are the ones who are weirdly invested in defending mom cliques.

The lack of empathy and sometimes outright hostility on the part of some PPs lends credence to the idea of mom cliques. So desperate to defend your right to exclude.

DP. Conversely, many are desperate to portray the OP as some poor victim. Read the initial post again. A few times if necessary. (It’s poorly written.) She was laughing her a** off. She assumed that everyone else was “uber uncomfortable” by her presence. She couldn’t wait to see what kind of awkwardness would ensure at the bus stop. OP comes off like a Real Housewife. She likes to create drama where it doesn’t need to be.

OP sending that woman a passive aggressive text about how she wasn’t invited is made so much weirder by the fact that she only knew a few of the 15 women. I just can’t wrap my head around that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

NP. No, the PP is correct. So many people in this thread tying themselves into knots dreaming up scenarios to gaslight OP. And anyone who tries to be understanding towards her. You guys are the ones who are weirdly invested in defending mom cliques.

The lack of empathy and sometimes outright hostility on the part of some PPs lends credence to the idea of mom cliques. So desperate to defend your right to exclude.

DP. Conversely, many are desperate to portray the OP as some poor victim. Read the initial post again. A few times if necessary. (It’s poorly written.) She was laughing her a** off. She assumed that everyone else was “uber uncomfortable” by her presence. She couldn’t wait to see what kind of awkwardness would ensure at the bus stop. OP comes off like a Real Housewife. She likes to create drama where it doesn’t need to be.

OP sending that woman a passive aggressive text about how she wasn’t invited is made so much weirder by the fact that she only knew a few of the 15 women. I just can’t wrap my head around that.

Yeah that’s weird.

I will admit that I find it uncomfortable when several neighbor moms I’m friendly with (a couple of whom call me a “friend” to my face) start talking about their “mom nights” in front of me, but never extend a invite. The last time there was another mom there who is apparently now included in their group and the others were gushing how awesome it was that she was joining them. It’s fine that I’m not included, you can’t include everyone, I just find the behavior a bit rude. I usually walk away or start looking at my phone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’d also feel weird if I went somewhere 15+ other women were having lunch and I hadn’t been included. I think other posters are delusional if they think this wouldn’t affect them in the slightest.

That said I have no interest in developing friendships with other moms from school. I do my own thing and my social life doesn’t revolve around school events, volunteering or my kids.

You’d really be upset if 15 women you don’t even know were having lunch without you?

Clearly there must be some sort of threshold of association because would hope you wouldn’t care about a big group of strangers getting a meal together.

I just don’t think 2 of my friends having lunch with a big group of people *I am not even friends with and don’t even know 2/3 of* would come close to the threshold of feeling excluded. No reasonable person would feel excluded when they don’t even know most of the people.

If it were a group of all the little league moms except me, yeah that may hurt a bit. But I’d still put on a brave face to keep it together and not send embarrassing text messages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d also feel weird if I went somewhere 15+ other women were having lunch and I hadn’t been included. I think other posters are delusional if they think this wouldn’t affect them in the slightest.

That said I have no interest in developing friendships with other moms from school. I do my own thing and my social life doesn’t revolve around school events, volunteering or my kids.

This is where I land. There is a bit of a mom clique at my DD's elementary. They were pretty cold to me initially but as my DD became friends with their kids, they started extending invites. But the truth is, I don't want my social circle to be so closely tied to my DD's. I also don't like to just socialize with coworkers. I'm friendly and pleasant with people both places, but decline most invites and my close friendships are with old friends I've known since before kids and most don't work in my industry.

Part of the reason why is that I think these communities are more susceptible to these kinds of dynamics, with someone getting left out, or feeling left out, and then there's awkwardness or drama. I don't like that feeling if being unsure of my friendships, or like I need to work to maintain my role in a group. I didn't like that those other moms only became interested in me as a friend after our DD's became friends, for instance. That's a weird metric for deciding if you want to be friends with someone, IMO.

OP said the other women are empty nesters or parents of MS/HS kids who don’t live in her neighborhood. I still can’t understand why anyone is validating her feelings that this was some sort of sleight. The vast majority of the group isn’t her friend. Don’t you think every single woman at that lunch has a multitude of other friends who weren’t invited? What makes OP so special that she and not all the other friends of the women in the group deserve an invite?

Do you think when she gets together with a group of friends she is feeling bad that all their other friends she doesn’t know weren’t also invited?

No wonder some of you on this board can go function socially in the world if this is how you emotionally handle a group of people you hardly know having lunch.

[Anonymous]

*cannot function

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

I never said I thought that these women went out of their way to exclude OP. I think probably it was either an accident (a text chain about the gathering and the people who might have invited OP either forgot to include her or were added to the group late enough that they didn't invite anyone) or maybe this is how OP found out that she wasn't as close to these particular women (meaning the group from her neighborhood she is actually friends with) as she thought.

I just agree that the incident would be kind of awkward and believe OP that it felt awkward in the moment. And I don't think it's weird she felt that way, as I can imagine a similar situation where I would also feel awkward. That's all. I don't think it was some giant conspiracy to exclude OP, but she *was* excluded (whether simply by accident or maybe a bit more purposefully, but probably not maliciously) and it's reasonable that she would feel the sting of that when it happened.

I think the people who are calling OP crazy or delusional or acting like it's totally unreasonable to feel as she did are protesting a little too much. You can empathize with OP without casting the other women involved as vicious mean girls.

[Anonymous]

Op, you are weird. That is why you were not invited.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think of cliques as more of a systemic thing. A small group who not only get together exclusively but leverage their exclusively into some sort of power - real (PTA board, room parents, soccer team parents) or otherwise (birthday party invites, play dates, group hangs). And they work to sustain the exclusivity of the group and its power over time.

A one time gathering that you weren’t invited to isn’t necessarily evidence of a clique.

DP and I totally agree with you about the element of power/purposeful exclusion of a small subset of the group needing to be an element of a clique.

But I’ll add that I don’t even think a recurrent gathering necessarily makes a clique.

I am part of a group of moms in a book club that meets monthly. I was not part of the original group, but it started out as a few neighbors. Each neighbor then branched out and invited another friend or 2 (in my case I had hung out and gotten along with some of my friend’s neighbors previously so they all mentioned their book club to me). It’s a mix of moms with kids from babyhood to college. We are aged 30s to 50s.

At this point we’ve capped out because none of us have homes big enough to just keep exponentially adding new members. Plus once you get beyond 12 people or so, I think it gets really hard to have any sort of centralized discussion and you end up with small groups breaking out instead.

Just because I get together with this same group of women 12x throughout the year doesn’t mean I dislike my other friends and want to exclude them, and I don’t feel any need to apologize for being in a book club. If someone snarkily texted me because they found out, I would take that as a huge red flag.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

Agree. It’s weird. Find a hobby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d also feel weird if I went somewhere 15+ other women were having lunch and I hadn’t been included. I think other posters are delusional if they think this wouldn’t affect them in the slightest.

That said I have no interest in developing friendships with other moms from school. I do my own thing and my social life doesn’t revolve around school events, volunteering or my kids.

This is where I land. There is a bit of a mom clique at my DD's elementary. They were pretty cold to me initially but as my DD became friends with their kids, they started extending invites. But the truth is, I don't want my social circle to be so closely tied to my DD's. I also don't like to just socialize with coworkers. I'm friendly and pleasant with people both places, but decline most invites and my close friendships are with old friends I've known since before kids and most don't work in my industry.

Part of the reason why is that I think these communities are more susceptible to these kinds of dynamics, with someone getting left out, or feeling left out, and then there's awkwardness or drama. I don't like that feeling if being unsure of my friendships, or like I need to work to maintain my role in a group. I didn't like that those other moms only became interested in me as a friend after our DD's became friends, for instance. That's a weird metric for deciding if you want to be friends with someone, IMO.

OP said the other women are empty nesters or parents of MS/HS kids who don’t live in her neighborhood. I still can’t understand why anyone is validating her feelings that this was some sort of sleight. The vast majority of the group isn’t her friend. Don’t you think every single woman at that lunch has a multitude of other friends who weren’t invited? What makes OP so special that she and not all the other friends of the women in the group deserve an invite?

Do you think when she gets together with a group of friends she is feeling bad that all their other friends she doesn’t know weren’t also invited?

No wonder some of you on this board can go function socially in the world if this is how you emotionally handle a group of people you hardly know having lunch.

When you get together with 15 other women, are every one of them your friend? Probably not. When I go out with a group like that, usually I am friends with a couple people and friendly with maybe a few more, and then the rest will either be acquaintances or I might never have met them. Actually just a couple days ago I went out with four friends and one was a very close friend, one was a friend I've known forever but am not that close to, and the other two I'd never met before (but were friends of my friends). This is very normal.

So actually it would be very normal for her friends to have included her in this outing and I think it was awkward when she ran into them because this was apparent to those involved -- they could have invited her but didn't, and it makes it seem like she was excluded. It probably wasn't on purpose but it also means they didn't think of her, which still hurts a little.

Also I think you are misreading the OP. All the women at the winery were moms from her kids' school -- I think she knew all of them at least by site. The group of empty-nesters and moms of older kids is a reference to the other women in her subdivision. I think she is saying that in her subdivision, there are only a few moms of kids in the elementary school, and she is one of them. And all the others were at this gathering with other moms from the same school, and she was the only one from her specific neighborhood who wasn't invited. She was not saying that the gathering was two women from her kids school and then a bunch of empty-nesters and moms of older kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

I never said I thought that these women went out of their way to exclude OP. I think probably it was either an accident (a text chain about the gathering and the people who might have invited OP either forgot to include her or were added to the group late enough that they didn't invite anyone) or maybe this is how OP found out that she wasn't as close to these particular women (meaning the group from her neighborhood she is actually friends with) as she thought.

I just agree that the incident would be kind of awkward and believe OP that it felt awkward in the moment. And I don't think it's weird she felt that way, as I can imagine a similar situation where I would also feel awkward. That's all. I don't think it was some giant conspiracy to exclude OP, but she *was* excluded (whether simply by accident or maybe a bit more purposefully, but probably not maliciously) and it's reasonable that she would feel the sting of that when it happened.

I think the people who are calling OP crazy or delusional or acting like it's totally unreasonable to feel as she did are protesting a little too much. You can empathize with OP without casting the other women involved as vicious mean girls.

But the incident wasn’t awkward and there was no need for anyone to feel awkward. No one did anything wrong.

She could have handled it like bumping into someone at the grocery store because this is essentially what this is. She happened to see a couple friends out doing something that didn’t concern her. A smile and wave is a normal response. Why be weird about it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

I never said I thought that these women went out of their way to exclude OP. I think probably it was either an accident (a text chain about the gathering and the people who might have invited OP either forgot to include her or were added to the group late enough that they didn't invite anyone) or maybe this is how OP found out that she wasn't as close to these particular women (meaning the group from her neighborhood she is actually friends with) as she thought.

I just agree that the incident would be kind of awkward and believe OP that it felt awkward in the moment. And I don't think it's weird she felt that way, as I can imagine a similar situation where I would also feel awkward. That's all. I don't think it was some giant conspiracy to exclude OP, but she *was* excluded (whether simply by accident or maybe a bit more purposefully, but probably not maliciously) and it's reasonable that she would feel the sting of that when it happened.

I think the people who are calling OP crazy or delusional or acting like it's totally unreasonable to feel as she did are protesting a little too much. You can empathize with OP without casting the other women involved as vicious mean girls.

You're inventing your own narrative here and adding details that don't exist. OP doesn't even know these people. There is no fantasy text group that she fell off of. You are by definition not close to people you don't know.