How to appeal CES decision

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you looking at the correct MAP score? They use the fall one, not the most recent.

I’m sure if you contact them they will explain that you are wrong and tell you why your kid actually didn’t meet the criteria.

Fall MAP (and the prior Spring Math MAP, for some) is used for the criteria-based MS magnets. CES, though relying on a similar paradigm, uses Winter MAP.

So, they use WINTER MAP only to determine for 3rd grader going into 4th grade CES lottery pool placement? 99% or 95% minimum?

How about for language & literacy? What is the minimum score? I have a will be 3rd grader in the fall. Thanks.

Depends on your child’s peers. If there are lots of high map R scores your child needs an exceedingly high map. If your school as lots of 99s and low farms your child has to have a very high map.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My 3rd grade met the central criteria but did not get a lottery spot. So is still in the pool.
When I called our home school to find out about the ELC in 4th and 5th grade there, I was told that all 4th and 5th graders receive ELC.

Yes, just like “honors for all” in high school, MCPS is moving to “elc for all” in elementary school. It’s part of their effort to lower the bar for everyone so that results looks better. Consistent with lowering standards for CES admission - everything is watered down now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 3rd grade met the central criteria but did not get a lottery spot. So is still in the pool.
When I called our home school to find out about the ELC in 4th and 5th grade there, I was told that all 4th and 5th graders receive ELC.

Yes, just like “honors for all” in high school, MCPS is moving to “elc for all” in elementary school. It’s part of their effort to lower the bar for everyone so that results looks better. Consistent with lowering standards for CES admission - everything is watered down now.

Some schools do that, but most still separate out their ELC class.

[Anonymous]

My kid has IEP , and our school is not title 1 or focus school and low FARM rate. Our school is one the school that has local CES. She has high score on both math (99%) & reading (above reading level, does not know how to interpret) at 2nd grade. Since our school has local CES, how does it work? No one at IEP meeting mentions anything about the CES, but they know she is doing academically well with high IQ (tested privately due to medical reason).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This was pre covid, so take it with a grain of salt, but I filed an appeal and wrote a letter explaining my child’s traits that made the CES a good fit for them, and I included a writing sample my child had written for fun. It really showcased DC’s creativity, vocabulary and passion for writing. The appeal was successful and DC was then placed in the waitpool. IMO, the writing sample probably had more sway than my letter, but I guess I’ll never know for sure. DC’s number was later randomly chosen and DC was admitted to the CES and did well there. Good luck.

There was no lottery pre-covid for CES so this doesn’t make any sense. This year’s 7th graders were selected for CES in Spring 2020 not by lottery. This year’s 6th graders were the first kids to be selected by lottery into CES in 2021, which was not pre covid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was pre covid, so take it with a grain of salt, but I filed an appeal and wrote a letter explaining my child’s traits that made the CES a good fit for them, and I included a writing sample my child had written for fun. It really showcased DC’s creativity, vocabulary and passion for writing. The appeal was successful and DC was then placed in the waitpool. IMO, the writing sample probably had more sway than my letter, but I guess I’ll never know for sure. DC’s number was later randomly chosen and DC was admitted to the CES and did well there. Good luck.

Had a similar experience where dc should have been in the pool but was not. His test scores were all well within the range. I believe he was blackballed by administration. Wrote a letter of appeal. He was moved to wait list and accepted. It made an enormous difference in his subsequent academic career.

How much of a subsequent academic career could a 6th grader have had? They didn’t use the lottery pool method for any students older than the current 6th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was pre covid, so take it with a grain of salt, but I filed an appeal and wrote a letter explaining my child’s traits that made the CES a good fit for them, and I included a writing sample my child had written for fun. It really showcased DC’s creativity, vocabulary and passion for writing. The appeal was successful and DC was then placed in the waitpool. IMO, the writing sample probably had more sway than my letter, but I guess I’ll never know for sure. DC’s number was later randomly chosen and DC was admitted to the CES and did well there. Good luck.

There was no lottery pre-covid for CES so this doesn’t make any sense. This year’s 7th graders were selected for CES in Spring 2020 not by lottery. This year’s 6th graders were the first kids to be selected by lottery into CES in 2021, which was not pre covid.

I think PP means that their child went into the waitpool and was selected. MCPS hasn't always been clear, but the CES waitpool may not have been ranked. That is, it was a "lottery" off the waitpool even pre-covid. So, the first round was hand-picked but all subsequent rounds were random from the waitpool.

[Anonymous]

Different poster here, though I posted in another thread on this topic. I also have a kid with above grade level reading, 97% MAP score, and straight As. Apparently that didn't meet criteria for central review. Oh, and he has a 504 so theoretically the locally normed 85th percentile thing doesn't even apply to him anyway.

I asked the guidance counselor. She said she didn't know anything about it and referred me to the school reading specialist.

School reading specialist just reiterated that he didn't meet central criteria but cited the criteria for GT classification. When he was screened in 2nd grade for GT classification, he did poorly on the DIBELS. I thought criteria for ELC/CES are based on third grade performance, which he should have been included in the lottery pool.

I concluded that nobody at MCPS really knows what they're doing. In light of that information, I decided that I wasn't going to bother with ELC/CES classification or whatever. He has intelligent parents who like to read, do I really need MCPS to arbitrarily assign a classification to encourage habits that I can encourage at home anyway?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Different poster here, though I posted in another thread on this topic. I also have a kid with above grade level reading, 97% MAP score, and straight As. Apparently that didn't meet criteria for central review. Oh, and he has a 504 so theoretically the locally normed 85th percentile thing doesn't even apply to him anyway.

I asked the guidance counselor. She said she didn't know anything about it and referred me to the school reading specialist.

School reading specialist just reiterated that he didn't meet central criteria but cited the criteria for GT classification. When he was screened in 2nd grade for GT classification, he did poorly on the DIBELS. I thought criteria for ELC/CES are based on third grade performance, which he should have been included in the lottery pool.

I concluded that nobody at MCPS really knows what they're doing. In light of that information, I decided that I wasn't going to bother with ELC/CES classification or whatever. He has intelligent parents who like to read, do I really need MCPS to arbitrarily assign a classification to encourage habits that I can encourage at home anyway?

Some know, some don't, and upper admin has disfavored GT-oriented programs, so they don't do even the MCPS-standard poor job of communicating for common understanding (it's not that information isn't available, they just don't make sure it's ingested/understood across locals and related programs).

If your DC had those indicators for the second quarter & winter MAP-R (not MAP-M), and a 504, you could appeal (e.g., if the local failed to note/central failed to account for the 504). MCPS DCCAPS shpuld be able to tell you which of the particular criteria were missed if your readimg specialist can't.

Though one might think they are related, CES lottery pool placement amd SIPPI (GT designation) are kept separate. If your DC might benefit from ELC, even if not placed in the local CES (same lottery criteria, but a higher seat-to-catchment-population ratio), you could have a conversation with the school admin, usually May/June as they begin to plan out class logistics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Different poster here, though I posted in another thread on this topic. I also have a kid with above grade level reading, 97% MAP score, and straight As. Apparently that didn't meet criteria for central review. Oh, and he has a 504 so theoretically the locally normed 85th percentile thing doesn't even apply to him anyway.

I asked the guidance counselor. She said she didn't know anything about it and referred me to the school reading specialist.

School reading specialist just reiterated that he didn't meet central criteria but cited the criteria for GT classification. When he was screened in 2nd grade for GT classification, he did poorly on the DIBELS. I thought criteria for ELC/CES are based on third grade performance, which he should have been included in the lottery pool.

I concluded that nobody at MCPS really knows what they're doing. In light of that information, I decided that I wasn't going to bother with ELC/CES classification or whatever. He has intelligent parents who like to read, do I really need MCPS to arbitrarily assign a classification to encourage habits that I can encourage at home anyway?

You’re asking the wrong people who are just guessing. You need to contact the correct central office who will tell you exactly why he didn’t qualify.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different poster here, though I posted in another thread on this topic. I also have a kid with above grade level reading, 97% MAP score, and straight As. Apparently that didn't meet criteria for central review. Oh, and he has a 504 so theoretically the locally normed 85th percentile thing doesn't even apply to him anyway.

I asked the guidance counselor. She said she didn't know anything about it and referred me to the school reading specialist.

School reading specialist just reiterated that he didn't meet central criteria but cited the criteria for GT classification. When he was screened in 2nd grade for GT classification, he did poorly on the DIBELS. I thought criteria for ELC/CES are based on third grade performance, which he should have been included in the lottery pool.

I concluded that nobody at MCPS really knows what they're doing. In light of that information, I decided that I wasn't going to bother with ELC/CES classification or whatever. He has intelligent parents who like to read, do I really need MCPS to arbitrarily assign a classification to encourage habits that I can encourage at home anyway?

You’re asking the wrong people who are just guessing. You need to contact the correct central office who will tell you exactly why he didn’t qualify.

And central office needs to specify the criteria met/not met during central review (3 columns in notification letter -- criterion category/target for pool inclusion/student data), specitlfy the reasons for accepting/rejecting appeals (point for point with the appeal), and make the specifics of the criteria (e.g., local norms by tranche, ES list by FARMS-rate tranche, specific adjustments for any special populations) & associated justification/reasoning widely available prior to the beginning of any period during which the criteria-related data would be collected. Then we wouldn't have these questions.

[Anonymous]

There is also teacher input that goes into lottery decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different poster here, though I posted in another thread on this topic. I also have a kid with above grade level reading, 97% MAP score, and straight As. Apparently that didn't meet criteria for central review. Oh, and he has a 504 so theoretically the locally normed 85th percentile thing doesn't even apply to him anyway.

I asked the guidance counselor. She said she didn't know anything about it and referred me to the school reading specialist.

School reading specialist just reiterated that he didn't meet central criteria but cited the criteria for GT classification. When he was screened in 2nd grade for GT classification, he did poorly on the DIBELS. I thought criteria for ELC/CES are based on third grade performance, which he should have been included in the lottery pool.

I concluded that nobody at MCPS really knows what they're doing. In light of that information, I decided that I wasn't going to bother with ELC/CES classification or whatever. He has intelligent parents who like to read, do I really need MCPS to arbitrarily assign a classification to encourage habits that I can encourage at home anyway?

You’re asking the wrong people who are just guessing. You need to contact the correct central office who will tell you exactly why he didn’t qualify.

And central office needs to specify the criteria met/not met during central review (3 columns in notification letter -- criterion category/target for pool inclusion/student data), specitlfy the reasons for accepting/rejecting appeals (point for point with the appeal), and make the specifics of the criteria (e.g., local norms by tranche, ES list by FARMS-rate tranche, specific adjustments for any special populations) & associated justification/reasoning widely available prior to the beginning of any period during which the criteria-related data would be collected. Then we wouldn't have these questions.

If you contact them and tell them you are considering an appeal they will tell you exactly where your kid fell short. I know several people who have done this and in every case they were wrong and their child had not met the criteria.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is also teacher input that goes into lottery decision.

Not true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is also teacher input that goes into lottery decision.

Not true.

It is true. I used to be an MCPS teacher and scored students for the CES program many times