TJ Falls to 14th in the Nation Per US News

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a long time the number one school in the nation, US News now has TJ at #14. Not sure how much is a change in methodology, how much is the admissions policy (surprised to see WTOP call that one out below, because they usually parrot the FCPS party line on everything), and how much is other schools getting better.

Following controversial changes to its admissions policy in 2021 to boost diversity, Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology in Virginia remains the top ranked school in the D.C. region and 14th in the nation, slipping from the top 10. It’s also the 5th ranked STEM school in the nation.

https://wtop.com/education/2024/04/regions-best-high-schools/

The FCPS Board was clear that they wanted the opportunity to attend TJ to extend to more of the county's students. They were not concerned about a slip in rankings and never said they were. It's the crazies on this board that said things like "The admissions changes led to a much stronger student body (by weeding out test preppers, etc.)." They were clearly wrong. Again, they are in denial about that but the FCPS Board was OK with it because the school should serve the full county and every middle school. I'm OK with that but let's not pretend it results in the best and brightest. A trade off that I for one and OK with but I freely admit that Asian students are denied seats they would otherwise have in a true merit-based system in order to further a different, and apparently legal, purpose.

Equity warriors throwing in the towel so soon? Essay Admissions was supposed to uncover the Einsteins from the bottom schools, who apparently are much more advanced in STEM than the prepped Asians with years of enrichment. Now that the silly Essay admissions is doing nothing more than simply letting in 150 Algebra 1 kids each year straight into remedial, it's time to explain away the decline?

The school Board never claimed that was the case. It was opening the door to more of the county's students. They never claimed what the equity warriors wished the case would be. The Board knew, and prepared for, a student body that was not at the academic math level of prior years. They were transparent in this process.

How is admitting 150 algebra1 students to TJ class bottom to struggle with remedial math considered anything but opening door to fail?

Why do some posters keep labeling the Algebra 1 students (taking geometry at TJ) as remedial. Algebra in 8th is still 1 year ahead of normal pacing.

I'm not that poster, but they have a point in the context of TJ. TJ only accepts a small fraction of the FCPS kids, and it has a mission statement of providing an appropriate education for kids with needs well above their peers. It's hard to justify placing kids on a track that's barely above average into an elite magnet school where they will be comparatively behind the other kids.

I'm not even opposed to Algebra I kids being admitted to TJ, providing that they demonstrate high aptitude in some other STEM arena. The current application process leaves no room for any kid to demonstrate any level of excellence. It instead assumes that kids who are somewhat above average in math and kids who are elite in math from the same SES level and at the same school are indistinguishable and equally in need of TJ.

Well said.

The current admissions scheme includes consideration of “experience factors” - which are not clearly defined and are subjective.

The switch from objective criteria in the past to “experience factors” currently, is my main concern.

A secondary concern is the Algebra I Honors in 8th grade requirement; except here there is an exception:

- if Algebra I Honors is not offered at the applicant’s school, then regular Algebra I will be allowed.

However, aren’t those students being set-up for failure, since they are entering at a disadvantage?

The current downward ranking trend, combined with lower test scores, suggests the prior school board has done everyone - and especially these students - a disservice, no matter what the board’s motive might have actually been.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given all the meddling the school board has done in the name of equity, I'm surprised it hasn't plummeted to 140th place!

I'd expect it to be back to number 1 since they put an end to the test-buying which caused the drop

says #backdoorKaren

[pseudonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The current admissions scheme includes consideration of “experience factors” - which are not clearly defined and are subjective.

The switch from objective criteria in the past to “experience factors” currently, is my main concern.

Aren't the experience factors having an IEP, free or reduced lunch and English as a second language? Those seem clearly defined.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:90% of the MIT, Caltech, and Ivy League kids took Algebra I in 8th grade a generation ago. I don't think this is the issue. I don't know what the criteria is of this US News report. I just think these kids who are at this level should have also done something else to deserve getting in beyond just doing well in classes.

The math level isn't the issue, specifically. A generation ago, many very talented kids lacked access to Algebra I, even when they were 99th percentile+ kids. Currently in FCPS, no one lacks access. Every kid is given numerous years and paths for AAP or advanced math. They are given all of the tools they should need to qualify for Algebra in 7th, and the bar is not overwhelmingly high. The kids who don't qualify in FCPS simply aren't very good at math. This is doubly true for the LCPS kids taking Algebra in 8th.

This all sounds magical, except we were given 0 options to jump the track to Algebra.

[Anonymous]

pseudonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The current admissions scheme includes consideration of “experience factors” - which are not clearly defined and are subjective.

The switch from objective criteria in the past to “experience factors” currently, is my main concern.

Aren't the experience factors having an IEP, free or reduced lunch and English as a second language? Those seem clearly defined.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am an Asian and here’s my take on this: I think the current selection process is fine as long as FCPS provides enrichment to super smart underprivileged kids. I am well aware of how much prep goes into TJ( or used to), kids from poor backgrounds don’t have the resources in time and money to match these other kids working since 1st grade for TJ, prepping a kid to death is not merit.

In my mind if a kid from disadvantaged background scores 90 as compared to 99 from kids in better circumstances, then they are good. You cannot ignore the hardship some of these children face to get even to 90, if they had support they would have scored 100. Where FCPS is failing is that they are not providing these kids enough support in elementary and middle school level so that once these kids are at TJ they can perform.

+1 I could not love this more. Thank you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:90% of the MIT, Caltech, and Ivy League kids took Algebra I in 8th grade a generation ago. I don't think this is the issue. I don't know what the criteria is of this US News report. I just think these kids who are at this level should have also done something else to deserve getting in beyond just doing well in classes.

The math level isn't the issue, specifically. A generation ago, many very talented kids lacked access to Algebra I, even when they were 99th percentile+ kids. Currently in FCPS, no one lacks access. Every kid is given numerous years and paths for AAP or advanced math. They are given all of the tools they should need to qualify for Algebra in 7th, and the bar is not overwhelmingly high. The kids who don't qualify in FCPS simply aren't very good at math. This is doubly true for the LCPS kids taking Algebra in 8th.

This all sounds magical, except we were given 0 options to jump the track to Algebra.

Name the school, or it didn’t happen. Either some school is violating FCPS policy, or you’re lying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a long time the number one school in the nation, US News now has TJ at #14. Not sure how much is a change in methodology, how much is the admissions policy (surprised to see WTOP call that one out below, because they usually parrot the FCPS party line on everything), and how much is other schools getting better.

Following controversial changes to its admissions policy in 2021 to boost diversity, Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology in Virginia remains the top ranked school in the D.C. region and 14th in the nation, slipping from the top 10. It’s also the 5th ranked STEM school in the nation.

https://wtop.com/education/2024/04/regions-best-high-schools/

The FCPS Board was clear that they wanted the opportunity to attend TJ to extend to more of the county's students. They were not concerned about a slip in rankings and never said they were. It's the crazies on this board that said things like "The admissions changes led to a much stronger student body (by weeding out test preppers, etc.)." They were clearly wrong. Again, they are in denial about that but the FCPS Board was OK with it because the school should serve the full county and every middle school. I'm OK with that but let's not pretend it results in the best and brightest. A trade off that I for one and OK with but I freely admit that Asian students are denied seats they would otherwise have in a true merit-based system in order to further a different, and apparently legal, purpose.

Equity warriors throwing in the towel so soon? Essay Admissions was supposed to uncover the Einsteins from the bottom schools, who apparently are much more advanced in STEM than the prepped Asians with years of enrichment. Now that the silly Essay admissions is doing nothing more than simply letting in 150 Algebra 1 kids each year straight into remedial, it's time to explain away the decline?

The school Board never claimed that was the case. It was opening the door to more of the county's students. They never claimed what the equity warriors wished the case would be. The Board knew, and prepared for, a student body that was not at the academic math level of prior years. They were transparent in this process.

How is admitting 150 algebra1 students to TJ class bottom to struggle with remedial math considered anything but opening door to fail?

Thoughtful question. Innocent kids that are not taught Algebra 1 properly are being asked to take on TJ rigor. That's inhumane!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:90% of the MIT, Caltech, and Ivy League kids took Algebra I in 8th grade a generation ago. I don't think this is the issue. I don't know what the criteria is of this US News report. I just think these kids who are at this level should have also done something else to deserve getting in beyond just doing well in classes.

That's not correct..
The Algebra1 kids being admitted are illprepared in Algebra1, and are suffering with a C or D.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a long time the number one school in the nation, US News now has TJ at #14. Not sure how much is a change in methodology, how much is the admissions policy (surprised to see WTOP call that one out below, because they usually parrot the FCPS party line on everything), and how much is other schools getting better.

Following controversial changes to its admissions policy in 2021 to boost diversity, Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology in Virginia remains the top ranked school in the D.C. region and 14th in the nation, slipping from the top 10. It’s also the 5th ranked STEM school in the nation.

https://wtop.com/education/2024/04/regions-best-high-schools/

The FCPS Board was clear that they wanted the opportunity to attend TJ to extend to more of the county's students. They were not concerned about a slip in rankings and never said they were. It's the crazies on this board that said things like "The admissions changes led to a much stronger student body (by weeding out test preppers, etc.)." They were clearly wrong. Again, they are in denial about that but the FCPS Board was OK with it because the school should serve the full county and every middle school. I'm OK with that but let's not pretend it results in the best and brightest. A trade off that I for one and OK with but I freely admit that Asian students are denied seats they would otherwise have in a true merit-based system in order to further a different, and apparently legal, purpose.

Equity warriors throwing in the towel so soon? Essay Admissions was supposed to uncover the Einsteins from the bottom schools, who apparently are much more advanced in STEM than the prepped Asians with years of enrichment. Now that the silly Essay admissions is doing nothing more than simply letting in 150 Algebra 1 kids each year straight into remedial, it's time to explain away the decline?

The school Board never claimed that was the case. It was opening the door to more of the county's students. They never claimed what the equity warriors wished the case would be. The Board knew, and prepared for, a student body that was not at the academic math level of prior years. They were transparent in this process.

How is admitting 150 algebra1 students to TJ class bottom to struggle with remedial math considered anything but opening door to fail?

Why do some posters keep labeling the Algebra 1 students (taking geometry at TJ) as remedial. Algebra in 8th is still 1 year ahead of normal pacing.

No one is assigning labels here. The information is based on facts regarding the remedial math assignments that freshmen are receiving. A significant number of the admitted "9th grade students (are) scoring below proficient on the initial Math Inventory," as reported by the TJ Principal. It doesn't seem like the TJ Principal is labeling anyone either; rather, they are addressing the "below proficient" algebra skills within the admitted class right upfront. If anything, the TJ Principal is clearly indicating that since the School Board removed the entrance math test, TJ Math teachers are now compelled to conduct basic math evaluation as soon as students enter into TJ.

Remedial math at TJ is also not easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a long time the number one school in the nation, US News now has TJ at #14. Not sure how much is a change in methodology, how much is the admissions policy (surprised to see WTOP call that one out below, because they usually parrot the FCPS party line on everything), and how much is other schools getting better.

Following controversial changes to its admissions policy in 2021 to boost diversity, Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology in Virginia remains the top ranked school in the D.C. region and 14th in the nation, slipping from the top 10. It’s also the 5th ranked STEM school in the nation.

https://wtop.com/education/2024/04/regions-best-high-schools/

The FCPS Board was clear that they wanted the opportunity to attend TJ to extend to more of the county's students. They were not concerned about a slip in rankings and never said they were. It's the crazies on this board that said things like "The admissions changes led to a much stronger student body (by weeding out test preppers, etc.)." They were clearly wrong. Again, they are in denial about that but the FCPS Board was OK with it because the school should serve the full county and every middle school. I'm OK with that but let's not pretend it results in the best and brightest. A trade off that I for one and OK with but I freely admit that Asian students are denied seats they would otherwise have in a true merit-based system in order to further a different, and apparently legal, purpose.

Equity warriors throwing in the towel so soon? Essay Admissions was supposed to uncover the Einsteins from the bottom schools, who apparently are much more advanced in STEM than the prepped Asians with years of enrichment. Now that the silly Essay admissions is doing nothing more than simply letting in 150 Algebra 1 kids each year straight into remedial, it's time to explain away the decline?

The school Board never claimed that was the case. It was opening the door to more of the county's students. They never claimed what the equity warriors wished the case would be. The Board knew, and prepared for, a student body that was not at the academic math level of prior years. They were transparent in this process.

How is admitting 150 algebra1 students to TJ class bottom to struggle with remedial math considered anything but opening door to fail?

Why do some posters keep labeling the Algebra 1 students (taking geometry at TJ) as remedial. Algebra in 8th is still 1 year ahead of normal pacing.

No one is assigning labels here. The information is based on facts regarding the remedial math assignments that freshmen are receiving. A significant number of the admitted "9th grade students (are) scoring below proficient on the initial Math Inventory," as reported by the TJ Principal. It doesn't seem like the TJ Principal is labeling anyone either; rather, they are addressing the "below proficient" algebra skills within the admitted class right upfront. If anything, the TJ Principal is clearly indicating that since the School Board removed the entrance math test, TJ Math teachers are now compelled to conduct basic math evaluation as soon as students enter into TJ.

Remedial math at TJ is also not easy.

For sure, imagine they have a year to do the job of parents and ES MS that should have been done in 4 or 5 years prior

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS also made a huge push to capture gifted kids at title 1 and lower SES schools. If the pp kid showed even a little bit of promise, the teacher should have captured this ability.

I had a kid who couldn’t even read in second grade and the teacher could see he was good at math and gave him harder worksheets.

Your child had a good teacher. My kids have had teachers like this along the way, but certainly not every teacher they had.

Pp here. I’m not a teacher but I do have 3 kids and have been around a lot of kids. You can see pretty quickly who the very bright kids are. My kid who couldn’t read was quiet. The teachers give kids assessments. I’m sure the teacher could see my kid did the math quickly and easily. I don’t think it takes a good teacher to see this. That specific teacher was a bit of a hot mess. She used to come to school late frequently and seemed easily distracted. Many parents were upset with her. I actually think she was the worst teacher my kid may have had and she still have my kid advanced math worksheets. We are talking multiplication worksheets instead of addition. Nothing crazy here.

I have 3 kids and we've had plenty of teachers who do zero differentiation even when my incredibly bright kid was wandering around making up her own math worksheets for fun.

Pp here. My youngest kid is now in first grade. They do a lot online nowadays. I don’t like it but it is easy for teachers to see how your kid is doing. My 6 year old gets very few paper worksheets but she does math and reading online in various school websites. They play math games. While my older kid did get handed advanced worksheets, now my kid gets no worksheets, not grade level or advanced. They can advance on their own using computers. I don’t like all this online math for the record.

Same with my child. When they have free choice, the math oriented games are more appealing to them.

[Anonymous]

If only they had fixed the selection process sooner, this drop could've been avoided.

TJ standing fell mostly because so many less capable students got in because of test buying than would've if there had been a fair selection like today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If only they had fixed the selection process sooner, this drop could've been avoided.

TJ standing fell mostly because so many less capable students got in because of test buying than would've if there had been a fair selection like today.

posted this in the other thread about Covid affecting TJ class of 2022:

I don't know about other schools. But there were many TJ students who could not handle an online TJ load. So they did drop off in their grades and engagement with school. Perhaps it was easier in non-STEM, smaller schools in other states. They may have been in person unlike TJ. It may feel like ancient history but it wasn't too long ago.

[Anonymous]

The only people who care what TJ is "ranked" are first gen strivers. Maybe they will live elsewhere!