waldorf education - I want to know more

[Anonymous]

Can anyone summarize what's good/bad about a Waldorf education? Why is there so much controversy around it? Also, I heard there was a group proposing a DC charter with a Waldorf philosphy, but my searching shows it was denied by the DC charter board this April. Does anyone know why?

[Anonymous]

The main controversy stems from a cult -ike approach to knowledge, poor coverage of academic materials in exchange for religious-like studies, and not teaching actual scientific concepts but actively teaching things that have no basis in relaity or are completely unproven. A parallel might be a very religious school not only teaching Adam and Eve but actively teaching that there is no evidence of dinosaurs or any evolutionary concepts. Its clearly fine for someone to believe in Adam and Eve but teaching someone that dinosaurs were never on earth and there is no such thing as concrete science is different.

The other controversy is that supposedly not all Waldorf schools are honest and upfront with parents about their religious angle, hide things from parents, and misrepresent to parents what they do in school. If you are into gnomes and follow the Waldorf religion, then it is up to you whether you want to send your child there. If you are not into this, then I would not consider it. I would VERY, VERY cautious about a Waldorf school that tries to appear more mainstream rather than upfront because those seem to be the ones getting into the most trouble regarding deception and fraud.

[Anonymous]

I've met kids who started school at Waldorf schools. They had terrible reading skills at a fairly advanced age (we're talking 5-6th grades). If it had been one kid, I wouldn't have thought there was a connection to the school...but having met many, many children in the situation, I am very wary of Waldorf.
Of the kids I have met, once they left Waldorf, they needed a lot of tutoring just to catch up with on-grade materials in fairly middle-of-the road west coast public schools.

[Anonymous]

On this forum you will mostly get negative feedback about Waldorf schools. Personally, I am a fan of Waldorf education for parents who understand and like the system and children without reading learning disabilities. I first learned about Waldorf from classmates in college (a great books liberal arts school) who went to Waldorf. One friend did Waldorf early childhood-7th grade. Her family then moved to an are with poor public schools and no private options. After attending the public middle school for a few days, she told her family that she was never going back there and would go to college instead... and she did. At 14 she drove herself to the big state U an hour away, and at 16 started at my college. She graduated easily, when on to get a great fellowship, and is pretty high up in the foreign service today. Another classmate has a doctorate in political science and was one of the top math students in my class. The third, is a journalist on the west coast and a very fun interesting person. Granted this is a small sampling, but these three students were always impressive to me, and they were passionate about how much they enjoyed attending Waldorf. I suggest the book "School as a Journey."

BTW I would agree that "anthroposophy" and Rudolph Steiner in general is not my cup of tea. That is the sticking point for most people. I still think well of the schools even though I am not into anthroposophy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The main controversy stems from a cult -ike approach to knowledge, poor coverage of academic materials in exchange for religious-like studies, and not teaching actual scientific concepts but actively teaching things that have no basis in relaity or are completely unproven. A parallel might be a very religious school not only teaching Adam and Eve but actively teaching that there is no evidence of dinosaurs or any evolutionary concepts. Its clearly fine for someone to believe in Adam and Eve but teaching someone that dinosaurs were never on earth and there is no such thing as concrete science is different.

The other controversy is that supposedly not all Waldorf schools are honest and upfront with parents about their religious angle, hide things from parents, and misrepresent to parents what they do in school. If you are into gnomes and follow the Waldorf religion, then it is up to you whether you want to send your child there. If you are not into this, then I would not consider it. I would VERY, VERY cautious about a Waldorf school that tries to appear more mainstream rather than upfront because those seem to be the ones getting into the most trouble regarding deception and fraud.

This sounds very exaggerated. Do you have personal experience with Waldorf? As for the reading skills lacking in kids, I have heard this from others too.

[Anonymous]

I have known, and been impressed by, several Waldorf teachers and alumni. I would not call the Waldorf program religious. There is a spiritual side to the founder's teachings, but I don't know how strongly that is emphasized. I think the schools have a lot of story telling, including fables, but I never got the impression that they were religious.

I have heard that Waldorf schools put less emphasis on book learning in early years, because they try to focus on the kinds of activities that are natural to a child's stage of development. I think of it as an artistic kind of education.

[Anonymous]

OP, I went to a Waldorf School through eighth grade, and one of my children (but not to the other) is now in a Waldorf School. I am always a little baffled by the accusations leveled against Waldorf that it is a cult, because really it's nothing of the sort. The education is based on what they call the "threefold" approach, which entails educating the heart, hands, and mind equally. Arts, music, languages, singing, nature, movement are all integral parts of the education rather than add-ons. The education is extremely hands-on and experiential. Rather than learning subjects from textbooks (there are no textbooks) the children learn through doing and experiencing and then create their own textbooks (called Main Lesson Books) with the guidance of their teachers.

Given that Waldorf follows a philosophy developed by an Austrian (Rudolph Steiner), it is not surprising that Waldorf Schools follow the Western European model of not introducing formal academics until first grade. The children's garden (preschool and K) are play-based, though they certainly lay the groundwork for pre-academics. Formal instruction in writing begins in first grade and reading in second grade. I am a professor of education now, so I read about different philosophies all the time, and my understanding is that given the late introduction to academics compared to the public schools – which are introducing academics earlier and earlier - Waldorf students tend to test about a year behind through fourth grade and thereafter about a year ahead.

Some children naturally teach themselves to read earlier than second grade - our daughter taught herself in K, and now having finished second grade just tested above fifth grade level in reading, so clearly the Waldorf approach is not holding her back. I was one of the children who did not learn to read until formally taught in second grade, and I have a PhD now, so clearly I also wasn't held back. After eighth grade, I went to a very academic boarding school and did very well (graduated Summa Cum Laude), so the gentle introduction to academics in the early years clearly worked for me.

In response to a PP’s comment about lack of real science instruction, there are studies that show that Waldorf graduates actually go into the fields of math and the pure sciences (but not engineering) at a rate higher than the general population. I have been very involved in three Waldorf schools and all had exceptional science programs from middle school through HS, so I am not sure on what PP has based her comments about the lack of real science in Waldorf.

About the accusations that Waldorf is religious: Religious isn't the right word; spiritual is. They do teach the Old Testament in third grade, but they also teach about Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, and other religions, all as natural parts of the curriculum through the lens of history. The operating ethos is more a respect for others/learning about others than about any doctrine that anyone is being urged to accept. We’re Jewish and have absolutely no concerns about having our daughter in Waldorf School. Our class of 21 students has three Muslims and four Jewish families, as well as a variety of branches of Christianity, and no one has ever raised concerns about any doctrine being pushed.

One critique of Waldorf that I think is very valid is that sometimes children with learning differences don’t get noticed for their differences until it’s very late. That could be the situation a PP was mentioning, with a 5-6th grader who couldn’t read. If a child has an LD, but the class teacher – in Waldorf, the same teacher does the primary teaching of the main subjects in a block of time called “Main Lesson” in the mornings, and remains with the class through the first eight years of schooling – does not recognize it or thinks he or she can work with it only to discover later that he or she can’t, then a child could really be up a creek. This is VERY rare, but when you meet a child who has left Waldorf in fifth grade, for example, this could indeed be what is going on. Because if parents are happy, they don’t tend to leave the school but instead stay through eighth grade. So if the PP knows someone who left in 5-6th grade and couldn’t read, there is a fair chance that that child has an LD that wasn’t caught by the teacher. As a parent, I would be really upset about this too.

Our younger child has LDs, and we have chosen not to have him educated at Waldorf because of this situation. Some of the class teachers are really fantastic (our DD’s teacher can match up against any teacher I have ever seen, anywhere), whereas some are stronger in the arts/music/humanities and maybe come across as less traditionally “academic.” Unless I were really sure a teacher was skilled in differentiating instruction (like our DD’s teacher is), I would not take the risk with a child with LDs.

Overall, Waldorf can be the most beautiful education ever – really truly holistic in its approach. But it’s not right for every family or every child. It does discourage the use of electronic media (TV, DVDs, computers) until fifth grade, and for some families, that seems strange. And as I said above, it’s not right for children with learning differences or who need very direct instruction (like my DS).

I’ve written a lot here, but I am always sad to see Waldorf so maligned by folks who know nothing about it. If you want more info, feel free to contact me at [e-mail].

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the very thorough picture the last poster gave. I know many people who went to, and many who send their children to Waldorf schools, and your description corresponds well with my own experience: fabulous children graduate from the school.

I also agree completely that - with rare exceptions - these schools are generally not the place for children with LDs. And if you are uncomfortable with an open engagement with spirituality and reduced electronic media consumption in the early years, it may not be a good fit.

At the same time, I'm pretty sure that the very noticeable engagement of pupils in Waldorf schools (both in school and out) is a direct result of these: a meaningful approach to education and a reduction in distractions.

[Anonymous]

The Washington Waldorf school has a craft bazaar event in the winter. During it, they display the kids work. Its a very low key way to go and get a better idea of what the education is like and what they kids are learning. After doing this myself, I decided that while there were many aspects of Waldorf I liked, there were several that I personally found to out there and decided against it.

[Anonymous]

I went to a Waldorf Steiner School up to the age of eleven. I'm seventeen now and I feel that my parents choice in sending me to a steiner School was the best decision made and has shaped me to be the person I am today. I feel that the Steiner system focuses on the arts i.e singing, dancing, painting, drawing and appreciation of festivals like the harvest festival etc. I think this schooling system has encouraged me to listen and respect people and to have a wide range of knowledge in many areas of life. I have never had a problem with reading what so ever and feel the method of teaching when it comes to reading was very structered and thourough. I am not religious and as a child felt so obligation to become a certain religion etc. One thing i would say is that I do not think the Steiner system is very suitable for those children who want to play alot of sport etc. My brother did not fit in particuarily well with the system as he is very sporty. All in all i would strongly advise the Waldorf steiner system as i feel it has helped to make me into a rounded character and is something I want my own children to experience in the future

[Anonymous]

My sister loved the Waldorf School she sent her children to up through K. You really have to buy into their philosophy though, no TV, no computer games, no plastic toys, etc. All organic, focus on creativity, etc. She thought it was really beautiful and idyllic. No books in the classrooms -- all stories were as puppet shows and just storytelling. Hard to move from a Waldorf into a mainstream school later though, so you need to make a commitment to it if you stay much beyond K. Personally, in my visits to a couple Waldorf schools in Mont. Co., I felt uncomfortable by their rigid philosophy and felt judged as a parent. Also, as a working parent, found their schedule to be unaccommodating. However, I do like all their neat play equipment and fun activities they do in class.

[Anonymous]

OP, just about EVERY Waldorf student I have met has been very very nice.