TJ Falls to 14th in the Nation Per US News

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It amazes me how many people think FCPS just used a racial quota for TJ admissions. Everyone — including the farthest-left member of the school board — knows that would be racist and illegal, so why does anyone think FCPS would give it a second thought?

Clearly you haven’t read the emails between the two “farthest left” memebers of the school board who referenced EXACTLY this and how the percentage of Asian students would certainly be reduced by the criteria they were supporting.
They knew that it would.
That was fine with them.
It read as if they were laughing about it and thought it was funny.

So yeah—they don’t care because “white adjacent” I guess?

So, those emails were about a different proposed but not adopted admissions process...

The entire reason to redo admissions was to increase blacks and lower the amount of Asians.

One of the main reasons to change admissions was to increase the number of Black students. They increased the overall class size in order to not lower the number of Asian students.

They succeeded at both - without quotas or race used in the admissions process.

They absolutely reduced the number of Asians, as they wanted to.

Went from 74% Asian to 61.64% Asians. They absolutely did reduce the number of Asians by increasing blacks and Hispanics, which was exactly the goal of changing admissions.

The number of Asians stayed about the same, since they increased the class size to accommodate the increased numbers of URMs. You are referring to percentage. Why? Look at numbers.

I’m not sure where that info is. The info I found and can see is that in the class of 2024, there were 57 kids from Longfellow and 33 kids from Cooper and for the class of 2027, there were 30 kids from Longfellow and only 16 kids from Cooper. I don’t think the kids from McLean are becoming less qualified for TJ but there is a significant drop in spots for kids from McLean.

There was another thread showing the decline of Asian students. This year’s class is only 57%. That is quite a drop. So the drop in rankings is a direct reflection of admission changes. Many people were saying that only the last class was based on the new admissions model, which isn’t true.

https://www.fcps.edu/news/offers-extended-thomas-jefferson-high-school-science-and-technology-class-2028


Merit Test based Admissions:
Class of 2019, Asian American students received 70.20%
Class of 2020, Asian American students received 71.34%
Class of 2021, Asian American students received 74.90%
Class of 2023, Asian American students received 72.87%
Class of 2024, Asian American students received 73.05%

Admissions changed to Essay based, and increased enrollment of 8th grade algebra1 students:
Class of 2025, Asian American students received 54.36%
Class of 2026, Asian American students received 59.82%
Class of 2027, Asian American students received 61.64%.
Class of 2028, Asian American students received 57.27%

This is not the sole factor for decline; there are two additional aspects. Firstly, the caliber of Asian students admitted has decreased. Previously, the merit-based admission test in math, science, and English ensured that the 315 admitted asian students from a pool of 1500 asian applicants were all proficient, advanced, and top-notch. However, the current lottery process makes random selections from the 1500 asian applicant pool, leading to a wide variety of math levels and proficiencies among the selected Asian students. Secondly, while there were previously only 20+ Algebra 1 students admitted before the admission changes, there are now approximately 150 Algebra 1 students admitted into each class. However, these lower level math admissions have taken seats that were previously offered to two year advanced math students from Longfellow, Oakton, etc.

I have a freshman at Langley and he knows several kids who really should be at TJ. It is ridiculous that a kid in remedial math is at TJ while kids who are two grades ahead in math and winning science and math competitions did not get in.

That happened in many schools. The new admissions dropped important information from the test and teachers’ recommendations, so winning STEM competition awards doesn’t mean anything. Without the information, they can no longer identify students who are capable and motivated. Within each MS, TJ admissions has become a lottery. Well-deserved kids got rejected, mediocre/lay-back kids got offered. Even the group of admitted Asian students now is understandably weaker than Asian students in the old system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm happy TJ dropped to 14. I hope it drops out of the top 50 next year and expect it will. This school is a bastion of elitism and colonial oppression. I was a key player in the admissions policy change and the drop in the standings was deliberate and intentional and I'm happy about it.

Colonial oppression from Asian immigrants???

Prior poster is trying to be sarcastic in my opinion.

[Anonymous]

Test prep helps improve results marginally but shows diminishing returns. You cannot test prep your way from an average natural score to a top score.

And the fact that Ivy League schools (about as left as they come) are once again employing standardized tests should shut down this tired argument that testing doesn't work. It is one of the best predictors of college success.

Fairfax County made a disastrous decision when they substituted ideology for science and abandoned the test in TH admissions and the recent behavior of the Ivies shows they are on the wrong sode of history.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It amazes me how many people think FCPS just used a racial quota for TJ admissions. Everyone — including the farthest-left member of the school board — knows that would be racist and illegal, so why does anyone think FCPS would give it a second thought?

Clearly you haven’t read the emails between the two “farthest left” memebers of the school board who referenced EXACTLY this and how the percentage of Asian students would certainly be reduced by the criteria they were supporting.
They knew that it would.
That was fine with them.
It read as if they were laughing about it and thought it was funny.

So yeah—they don’t care because “white adjacent” I guess?

So, those emails were about a different proposed but not adopted admissions process...

The entire reason to redo admissions was to increase blacks and lower the amount of Asians.

One of the main reasons to change admissions was to increase the number of Black students. They increased the overall class size in order to not lower the number of Asian students.

They succeeded at both - without quotas or race used in the admissions process.

They absolutely reduced the number of Asians, as they wanted to.

Went from 74% Asian to 61.64% Asians. They absolutely did reduce the number of Asians by increasing blacks and Hispanics, which was exactly the goal of changing admissions.

The number of Asians stayed about the same, since they increased the class size to accommodate the increased numbers of URMs. You are referring to percentage. Why? Look at numbers.

I’m not sure where that info is. The info I found and can see is that in the class of 2024, there were 57 kids from Longfellow and 33 kids from Cooper and for the class of 2027, there were 30 kids from Longfellow and only 16 kids from Cooper. I don’t think the kids from McLean are becoming less qualified for TJ but there is a significant drop in spots for kids from McLean.

Correct. Fairfax County engaged in reverse redlining, mandating that more kids come from certain areas knowing the racial composition of those areas. The result was to cap the number of kids from Longfellow, Rachel Carson and Cooper - which is what happened.

The admissions changes were "race neutral" only in the superficial way that classical redlining (not making loans to ANY person located within a specific geographic areas with elevated numbers of African Americans) was "race neutral." By that I mean that the admissions system was designed so that the county could claim it was "race neutral" (like banks claiming redlining was race neutral because it targeted geography) but the admissions changes were anything but race neutral in design, intent and impact.

And Fairfax County admitted they were trying to racially balance the school - before they got sued that is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It amazes me how many people think FCPS just used a racial quota for TJ admissions. Everyone — including the farthest-left member of the school board — knows that would be racist and illegal, so why does anyone think FCPS would give it a second thought?

Clearly you haven’t read the emails between the two “farthest left” memebers of the school board who referenced EXACTLY this and how the percentage of Asian students would certainly be reduced by the criteria they were supporting.
They knew that it would.
That was fine with them.
It read as if they were laughing about it and thought it was funny.

So yeah—they don’t care because “white adjacent” I guess?

So, those emails were about a different proposed but not adopted admissions process...

The entire reason to redo admissions was to increase blacks and lower the amount of Asians.

One of the main reasons to change admissions was to increase the number of Black students. They increased the overall class size in order to not lower the number of Asian students.

They succeeded at both - without quotas or race used in the admissions process.

They absolutely reduced the number of Asians, as they wanted to.

Went from 74% Asian to 61.64% Asians. They absolutely did reduce the number of Asians by increasing blacks and Hispanics, which was exactly the goal of changing admissions.

The number of Asians stayed about the same, since they increased the class size to accommodate the increased numbers of URMs. You are referring to percentage. Why? Look at numbers.

I’m not sure where that info is. The info I found and can see is that in the class of 2024, there were 57 kids from Longfellow and 33 kids from Cooper and for the class of 2027, there were 30 kids from Longfellow and only 16 kids from Cooper. I don’t think the kids from McLean are becoming less qualified for TJ but there is a significant drop in spots for kids from McLean.

There was another thread showing the decline of Asian students. This year’s class is only 57%. That is quite a drop. So the drop in rankings is a direct reflection of admission changes. Many people were saying that only the last class was based on the new admissions model, which isn’t true.

https://www.fcps.edu/news/offers-extended-thomas-jefferson-high-school-science-and-technology-class-2028


Merit Test based Admissions:
Class of 2019, Asian American students received 70.20%
Class of 2020, Asian American students received 71.34%
Class of 2021, Asian American students received 74.90%
Class of 2023, Asian American students received 72.87%
Class of 2024, Asian American students received 73.05%

Admissions changed to Essay based, and increased enrollment of 8th grade algebra1 students:
Class of 2025, Asian American students received 54.36%
Class of 2026, Asian American students received 59.82%
Class of 2027, Asian American students received 61.64%.
Class of 2028, Asian American students received 57.27%

This is not the sole factor for decline; there are two additional aspects. Firstly, the caliber of Asian students admitted has decreased. Previously, the merit-based admission test in math, science, and English ensured that the 315 admitted asian students from a pool of 1500 asian applicants were all proficient, advanced, and top-notch. However, the current lottery process makes random selections from the 1500 asian applicant pool, leading to a wide variety of math levels and proficiencies among the selected Asian students. Secondly, while there were previously only 20+ Algebra 1 students admitted before the admission changes, there are now approximately 150 Algebra 1 students admitted into each class. However, these lower level math admissions have taken seats that were previously offered to two year advanced math students from Longfellow, Oakton, etc.

I have a freshman at Langley and he knows several kids who really should be at TJ. It is ridiculous that a kid in remedial math is at TJ while kids who are two grades ahead in math and winning science and math competitions did not get in.

That happened in many schools. The new admissions dropped important information from the test and teachers’ recommendations, so winning STEM competition awards doesn’t mean anything. Without the information, they can no longer identify students who are capable and motivated. Within each MS, TJ admissions has become a lottery. Well-deserved kids got rejected, mediocre/lay-back kids got offered. Even the group of admitted Asian students now is understandably weaker than Asian students in the old system.

There is anecdotal evidence that FCPS reduced the number of truly superstar kids at TJ and tried to make more of the kids "really good" but not great. But that will not be really clear until the National Merit Semifinalists (NMS) are awarded next year. Based on rumored pre-PSAT scores from current juniors, TJ's NMS will fall dramatically from its usual 150 or so per year. We will know in a year, but with remedial math, top teachers resigning, rumored discipline problems, etc., things are not looking good for TJ's long term reputation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Test prep helps improve results marginally but shows diminishing returns. You cannot test prep your way from an average natural score to a top score.

And the fact that Ivy League schools (about as left as they come) are once again employing standardized tests should shut down this tired argument that testing doesn't work. It is one of the best predictors of college success.

Fairfax County made a disastrous decision when they substituted ideology for science and abandoned the test in TH admissions and the recent behavior of the Ivies shows they are on the wrong sode of history.

I know several self studiers who went from the high 1200s into the 1500s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:sad, race to the bottom; however, this area always votes for this equity crap, so no surprise.

And by bottom you mean going from 100th percentile to 99.95th percentile in national rankings. There are over 25,000 public high schools in America. They are 14th based on the arbitrary criteria of one random magazine, and you think that's the bottom? These are still the best and brightest kids in the entire region, and if a kid got on who isn't a complete genius in math, but he/she is great at math and can actually do something socially - that's a win in my book.

Past tense. No longer. That’s why people are objecting to the new admissions policies. Schools have guaranteed spots for kids, even if those kids taking those spots are by far not the brightest kids in the region. The admissions testing was dumbed down. The minimum math standard was dumbed down. The principal is posting goals about remediation work. Do you seriously think this still means only the brightest attend TJ?

[Anonymous]

That’s a big drop!

[Anonymous]

The WTOP article CLEARLY. states that the data used in the ranking in from BEFORE the changes to admission process were made.

But yes - pls continue your whining.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It amazes me how many people think FCPS just used a racial quota for TJ admissions. Everyone — including the farthest-left member of the school board — knows that would be racist and illegal, so why does anyone think FCPS would give it a second thought?

Clearly you haven’t read the emails between the two “farthest left” memebers of the school board who referenced EXACTLY this and how the percentage of Asian students would certainly be reduced by the criteria they were supporting.
They knew that it would.
That was fine with them.
It read as if they were laughing about it and thought it was funny.

So yeah—they don’t care because “white adjacent” I guess?

So, those emails were about a different proposed but not adopted admissions process...

The entire reason to redo admissions was to increase blacks and lower the amount of Asians.

One of the main reasons to change admissions was to increase the number of Black students. They increased the overall class size in order to not lower the number of Asian students.

They succeeded at both - without quotas or race used in the admissions process.

They absolutely reduced the number of Asians, as they wanted to.

Went from 74% Asian to 61.64% Asians. They absolutely did reduce the number of Asians by increasing blacks and Hispanics, which was exactly the goal of changing admissions.

The number of Asians stayed about the same, since they increased the class size to accommodate the increased numbers of URMs. You are referring to percentage. Why? Look at numbers.

I’m not sure where that info is. The info I found and can see is that in the class of 2024, there were 57 kids from Longfellow and 33 kids from Cooper and for the class of 2027, there were 30 kids from Longfellow and only 16 kids from Cooper. I don’t think the kids from McLean are becoming less qualified for TJ but there is a significant drop in spots for kids from McLean.

There was another thread showing the decline of Asian students. This year’s class is only 57%. That is quite a drop. So the drop in rankings is a direct reflection of admission changes. Many people were saying that only the last class was based on the new admissions model, which isn’t true.

https://www.fcps.edu/news/offers-extended-thomas-jefferson-high-school-science-and-technology-class-2028


Merit Test based Admissions:
Class of 2019, Asian American students received 70.20%
Class of 2020, Asian American students received 71.34%
Class of 2021, Asian American students received 74.90%
Class of 2023, Asian American students received 72.87%
Class of 2024, Asian American students received 73.05%

Admissions changed to Essay based, and increased enrollment of 8th grade algebra1 students:
Class of 2025, Asian American students received 54.36%
Class of 2026, Asian American students received 59.82%
Class of 2027, Asian American students received 61.64%.
Class of 2028, Asian American students received 57.27%

This is not the sole factor for decline; there are two additional aspects. Firstly, the caliber of Asian students admitted has decreased. Previously, the merit-based admission test in math, science, and English ensured that the 315 admitted asian students from a pool of 1500 asian applicants were all proficient, advanced, and top-notch. However, the current lottery process makes random selections from the 1500 asian applicant pool, leading to a wide variety of math levels and proficiencies among the selected Asian students. Secondly, while there were previously only 20+ Algebra 1 students admitted before the admission changes, there are now approximately 150 Algebra 1 students admitted into each class. However, these lower level math admissions have taken seats that were previously offered to two year advanced math students from Longfellow, Oakton, etc.

I have a freshman at Langley and he knows several kids who really should be at TJ. It is ridiculous that a kid in remedial math is at TJ while kids who are two grades ahead in math and winning science and math competitions did not get in.

I thought I remembered seeing it posted in other thread here that used to be over 50% (was it as high as 70%??) of students were coming it taking algebra 2 in 8th grade? Saw now 150 might be admitted that are taking algebra 1 in 8th grade (v algebra 2)- that is what had me wanting to remember the % of incoming students that would have completed algebra 2 before starting TJ. I thought it was a huge % pre- admissions change.

Before admissions change, 35% of admits were algebra 2, and 61% were geometry, and 4% were algebra 1.
After admissions change, 18% of admits are algebra 2, 51 percent are geometry, and 31% are algebra 1.

Great. Kids who weren’t on the super accelerated track from early ES have a chance to attend. There is not just one path towards STEM.

I had college-educated, English speaking, engaged parents and I didn’t really take off in math until middle school. Then I went on to excel in STEM in HS, college, and grad school (top 10 programs). Not every future STEM star is going to do well on a test in 2nd grade that gets them on the multiyear acceleration train.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It amazes me how many people think FCPS just used a racial quota for TJ admissions. Everyone — including the farthest-left member of the school board — knows that would be racist and illegal, so why does anyone think FCPS would give it a second thought?

Clearly you haven’t read the emails between the two “farthest left” memebers of the school board who referenced EXACTLY this and how the percentage of Asian students would certainly be reduced by the criteria they were supporting.
They knew that it would.
That was fine with them.
It read as if they were laughing about it and thought it was funny.

So yeah—they don’t care because “white adjacent” I guess?

So, those emails were about a different proposed but not adopted admissions process...

The entire reason to redo admissions was to increase blacks and lower the amount of Asians.

One of the main reasons to change admissions was to increase the number of Black students. They increased the overall class size in order to not lower the number of Asian students.

They succeeded at both - without quotas or race used in the admissions process.

They absolutely reduced the number of Asians, as they wanted to.

Went from 74% Asian to 61.64% Asians. They absolutely did reduce the number of Asians by increasing blacks and Hispanics, which was exactly the goal of changing admissions.

The number of Asians stayed about the same, since they increased the class size to accommodate the increased numbers of URMs. You are referring to percentage. Why? Look at numbers.

I’m not sure where that info is. The info I found and can see is that in the class of 2024, there were 57 kids from Longfellow and 33 kids from Cooper and for the class of 2027, there were 30 kids from Longfellow and only 16 kids from Cooper. I don’t think the kids from McLean are becoming less qualified for TJ but there is a significant drop in spots for kids from McLean.

There was another thread showing the decline of Asian students. This year’s class is only 57%. That is quite a drop. So the drop in rankings is a direct reflection of admission changes. Many people were saying that only the last class was based on the new admissions model, which isn’t true.

https://www.fcps.edu/news/offers-extended-thomas-jefferson-high-school-science-and-technology-class-2028


Merit Test based Admissions:
Class of 2019, Asian American students received 70.20%
Class of 2020, Asian American students received 71.34%
Class of 2021, Asian American students received 74.90%
Class of 2023, Asian American students received 72.87%
Class of 2024, Asian American students received 73.05%

Admissions changed to Essay based, and increased enrollment of 8th grade algebra1 students:
Class of 2025, Asian American students received 54.36%
Class of 2026, Asian American students received 59.82%
Class of 2027, Asian American students received 61.64%.
Class of 2028, Asian American students received 57.27%

This is not the sole factor for decline; there are two additional aspects. Firstly, the caliber of Asian students admitted has decreased. Previously, the merit-based admission test in math, science, and English ensured that the 315 admitted asian students from a pool of 1500 asian applicants were all proficient, advanced, and top-notch. However, the current lottery process makes random selections from the 1500 asian applicant pool, leading to a wide variety of math levels and proficiencies among the selected Asian students. Secondly, while there were previously only 20+ Algebra 1 students admitted before the admission changes, there are now approximately 150 Algebra 1 students admitted into each class. However, these lower level math admissions have taken seats that were previously offered to two year advanced math students from Longfellow, Oakton, etc.

I have a freshman at Langley and he knows several kids who really should be at TJ. It is ridiculous that a kid in remedial math is at TJ while kids who are two grades ahead in math and winning science and math competitions did not get in.

That happened in many schools. The new admissions dropped important information from the test and teachers’ recommendations, so winning STEM competition awards doesn’t mean anything. Without the information, they can no longer identify students who are capable and motivated. Within each MS, TJ admissions has become a lottery. Well-deserved kids got rejected, mediocre/lay-back kids got offered. Even the group of admitted Asian students now is understandably weaker than Asian students in the old system.

There is anecdotal evidence that FCPS reduced the number of truly superstar kids at TJ and tried to make more of the kids "really good" but not great. But that will not be really clear until the National Merit Semifinalists (NMS) are awarded next year. Based on rumored pre-PSAT scores from current juniors, TJ's NMS will fall dramatically from its usual 150 or so per year. We will know in a year, but with remedial math, top teachers resigning, rumored discipline problems, etc., things are not looking good for TJ's long term reputation.

They expanded the TJ class sizes so the number of NMSFs may not go down as much as the percentage.

[Anonymous]

If they wanted to mess around with admissions to diversify the school, fine. Just don’t ask everyone else to keep pretending it’s still truly exceptional. The declining rankings based on data for a class that was admitted under the old system but largely educated under the new regime is the canary in the coal mine.

[Anonymous]

At some point though the entire school would become Asian because other minorities wouldn't want to go. I think the solution is to split up TJ into two stem schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If they wanted to mess around with admissions to diversify the school, fine. Just don’t ask everyone else to keep pretending it’s still truly exceptional. The declining rankings based on data for a class that was admitted under the old system but largely educated under the new regime is the canary in the coal mine.

FCPS started messing with admissions for the class of 2025. This was the start of increasing URM enrollment and decreasing Asian percentages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm happy TJ dropped to 14. I hope it drops out of the top 50 next year and expect it will. This school is a bastion of elitism and colonial oppression. I was a key player in the admissions policy change and the drop in the standings was deliberate and intentional and I'm happy about it.

Sounds like rubbish to me, but if you are a "key player," why not put yourself out there in the WP or even one of the local tabloids like the Gazette since you are so proud of the what the admissions change will bring to TJ?