S/O Politicians and Money. Here is the difference btw. Trump and the Clintons.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:OP, agree or disagree with how the Clintons made money, they made money and have cash in the bank. Trump, on the other hand, is leveraged out the wazoo. He is highly dependent on some shady financiers. If Goldman Sachs is able to pull Clinton's strings, a lot worse characters are able to pull Trump's. Take a look at this article that I just finished reading:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/trump-putin-yes-it-s-really-a-thing

"All the other discussions of Trump's finances aside, his debt load has grown dramatically over the last year, from $350 million to $630 million. This is in just one year while his liquid assets have also decreased. Trump has been blackballed by all major US banks."

"Post-bankruptcy Trump has been highly reliant on money from Russia, most of which has over the years become increasingly concentrated among oligarchs and sub-garchs close to Vladimir Putin."

This article argues that Trump's constant praise of Putin and his support for Russia-friendly policies is a result of his dependence on Russian financing. I don't know that I'm ready to believe that, but it is something to consider.

If the Clintons have to choose between US and Russian interests, they will choose US if for no other reason then it will be more rewarding to them and their cronies. Trump, on the other hand, may have to consider the possibility of facing personal financial collapse if he places US interests over Putin's. That is a scary thought and a lot scarier than the Clintons' greed.

Isn't that kind of a big deal? To sweep it aside and say "corrupt or not, at least they got the money." So all's well that ends well?

I'm sure you will say that you disagree that it was corrupt because she's your candidate, but many people, including Democrats, believe their actions were corrupt and that Hillary is less than honest and not trustworthy.

[Anonymous]

This thread is not about the candidates' tax returns.

It is about the big picture.

You seem oblivious.

The Clintons have made a fortune off of public service. Figures range from $130 million to $229 since the year 2000. Mind you, Hillary was not retired. She was still a government employee - Senator and SOS.

It is all listed right there is their tax returns! Yes, what they collected may have been legal (maybe; maybe not; read Clinton Cash; corruption is often subtle.) They have no shame.

Trump is SPENDING his personal fortune in a bid to help improve/change our country.

Trump is SPENDING his own money. The Clintons are COLLECTING other people's money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread is not about the candidates' tax returns.

It is about the big picture.

You seem oblivious.

The Clintons have made a fortune off of public service. Figures range from $130 million to $229 since the year 2000. Mind you, Hillary was not retired. She was still a government employee - Senator and SOS.

It is all listed right there is their tax returns! Yes, what they collected may have been legal (maybe; maybe not; read Clinton Cash; corruption is often subtle.) They have no shame.

Trump is SPENDING his personal fortune in a bid to help improve/change our country.

Trump is SPENDING his own money. The Clintons are COLLECTING other people's money.

This. Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jeff Steele,

then my point is even more relevant.

If Trump is not as wealthy as he claims, then $55 million is a huge chunk of change for him.

he is even more altruistic than I thought!

+1

Mark Cuban made a comment that Trump doesn't have a lot of cash. His FEC filing showed He has less than 175 million liquid cash. $55 million is a lot. He had to sell some securities to come up with the cash.

Jeff is incorrect in his assessment of Trump's leverage on his business. If you go by his FEC filing, a lot of his properties are paid off and don't carry mortgage. A couple of his crown jewel properties like Mar-a-largo has mortgages with good rates. But each of them is a separate LLC. I think it's the other way around that bankers are at the mercy of him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Isn't that kind of a big deal? To sweep it aside and say "corrupt or not, at least they got the money." So all's well that ends well?

I'm sure you will say that you disagree that it was corrupt because she's your candidate, but many people, including Democrats, believe their actions were corrupt and that Hillary is less than honest and not trustworthy.

Are you sweeping aside where Trump got his money? Being hugely in debt to foreign banks is NBD?

For a real conversation, we could discuss each of sources of money for Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, and Donald Trump and evaluate from there. Or discuss money in elections, if that's the discussion you are trying to start.

[Anonymous]

Here is another important point about the candidates' tax returns.

Because Hillary and Bill have been working in the public sector for the better part of 40 years and they control a public charity/foundation which is involved in a lot of political type stuff, it was very important for them to release their tax returns. We need transparency with that because of their public positions.

Trump, on the other hand, is a private person who has never held a public sector job before. Therefore, it really isn't anyone's business how much he has earned etc. It is btw. him and the IRS. Trump wasn't in a position as a private person with no power to be corrupted.

Make sense?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is another important point about the candidates' tax returns.

Because Hillary and Bill have been working in the public sector for the better part of 40 years and they control a public charity/foundation which is involved in a lot of political type stuff, it was very important for them to release their tax returns. We need transparency with that because of their public positions.

Trump, on the other hand, is a private person who has never held a public sector job before. Therefore, it really isn't anyone's business how much he has earned etc. It is btw. him and the IRS. Trump wasn't in a position as a private person with no power to be corrupted.

Make sense?

Hell no! Trump is running for president of the most powerful seat in the world. I have every damn right to see his taxes and know about his finances before he has access to the U.S. Treasury. He can't even pay his own contractors who are suing him.

Make sense?

[Anonymous]

A campaign is not a charity in the way you seem to think it is

Self promoting with your own mone is not exactly mother Teresa stuff

Look, the clintons are also shady, but this logic is so tortured, I worry you may actually need to seek medical attention

[Anonymous]

Trump is complying with all filing requirements. Therefore, you can see all you need to know. He is following federal election law.

There is no law that requires him to release his taxes.

And as a former tax atty, I agree with this.

From a public policy perspective, it is not necessary either. The man was a private businessman. He was not subject to bribery or corruption. Who was going to bribe him? he has no power!

You don't get it.

[Anonymous]

What a crock of bullshit. Trump loves suckers like you, OP. The last thing that POS is is "altruistic." He's just funneling the money back to his companies, , and he's paying himself a salary!

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/22/us/politics/donald-trump-self-funding-payments.html


Donald J. Trump regularly boasts that he is self-funding his presidential bid, but new campaign finance filings show that he is also shifting plenty of money back to himself in the process.

According to documents submitted to the Federal Election Commission, Mr. Trump, whose campaign has just $1.3 million cash on hand, paid at least $1.1 million to his businesses and family members in May for expenses associated with events and travel costs. The total represents nearly a fifth of the $6 million that his campaign spent in the month.

The spending raised eyebrows among campaign finance experts and some of Mr. Trump’s critics who have questioned whether the presumptive Republican nominee, who points to his business acumen as a case for his candidacy, is trying to do what he has suggested he would in 2000 when he mulled making an independent run: “It’s very possible that I could be the first presidential candidate to run and make money on it.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Trump is complying with all filing requirements. Therefore, you can see all you need to know. He is following federal election law.

There is no law that requires him to release his taxes.

And as a former tax atty, I agree with this.

From a public policy perspective, it is not necessary either. The man was a private businessman. He was not subject to bribery or corruption. Who was going to bribe him? he has no power!

You don't get it.

Interesting. Anything that someone does prior to running for office is irrelevant because they can't be bribed for it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump doesn't owe anyone anything. He is brand new to politics.

The Clintons have 50 years of playing the game and trading favors.

The Clintons are in a totally different league. They are part of the problem - political cronyism.

The American people are sick and tired of this and these Washington insider types.

If you don't get this, then you are going to be very surprised when Trump wins in Nov.

FYI. Trump did fund his primary (to the tune of $55 million) and he never said he was going to be able to fund the general election.

to summarize:

Trump has spent $55 million of his own money to win.

The Clintons have collected $229 million of other people's money (which is now their own personal fortune) since Bill left office and while Hillary was still in office (Senator and SOS).

This is a big and real difference.

I think I would need to personally audit those figures before I would believe anything out of Team Trump given their track record on truthiness about this issue.

Luckily for you (and all of us) - we have this entity called the Federal Election Commission and candidates have to make filings on a regular basis...and so you can see for yourself that the $55 million figure is true.

Geez. You are ignorant.

Ignorant poster here. I was referring to things like payments to self and family, renting Mar-a-lago mentioned in the nyt article poster above linked.

[Anonymous]

He lent money to the campaign, he has every intention of getting that money back. It's just a nice talking point to get the suckers on his side. He is a businessman above all and I have no faith in him choosing country over his business. I am convinced he is in it for his own self-interests.

[Anonymous]

Now I know you are talking out of your ass.

Businessmen can't be corrupted?

Excuse me while I go laugh myself silly

[Anonymous]

Trump is snowing you all, just like Trump University fleeced it's customers. Can't believe he's played the Republicans for complete suckers. I suppose when you're desperate, you'll believe any crock of lies that might save you.