Living in NYC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I made in the $40s in NYC in 1998. I was poor, like couldn't go out on weekend and ran up $50k of debt poor. It's a great city if you can afford to take cabs everywhere and eat out for every meal.
So, no, I don't think that $40k can cut it. Most of my friends who lived in the city also had parents that paid their rent and credit cards.

I made $68k as a designer in Brooklyn in 2011 and was poor as fuck. All my friends who are still there are secret trust-funders or have huge inheritances.

And what are you doing now? (If I may ask)

Moved to DC 3 years ago. Still work in a design function, but I sold out and do in-house corporate work. I now make $95K. Woohoo!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No $40 K does not cut it. Even in Brooklyn.

I lived there for a couple of years and it is crazy fucking expensive. For instance it costs twelve dollars to drive over a fucking bridge.

Funny because I know several families, including my aunt who is getting by just fine on about $40k. OP, its like any other big city, there are expensive areas and there are less expensive areas. The biggest expense will be housing which means that she will not be able to live in Brooklyn Heights, Park Slope or any of the other tony areas. If she is willing to move further into the borough (Flatbush, parts of Williamsburg, parts of Prospect and Crown Heights), then I think she can make do. She will just have to watch her expenses (subway/bus instead of cabs etc.).

I wish her luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I made in the $40s in NYC in 1998. I was poor, like couldn't go out on weekend and ran up $50k of debt poor. It's a great city if you can afford to take cabs everywhere and eat out for every meal.
So, no, I don't think that $40k can cut it. Most of my friends who lived in the city also had parents that paid their rent and credit cards.

I made $68k as a designer in Brooklyn in 2011 and was poor as fuck. All my friends who are still there are secret trust-funders or have huge inheritances.

And what are you doing now? (If I may ask)

Moved to DC 3 years ago. Still work in a design function, but I sold out and do in-house corporate work. I now make $95K. Woohoo!

Hmm ok cool thanks. She's in-house already but I gotta be honest I'm not sure I understand the job that well. I've suggested moving down here, but she thinks she wouldn't "fit in". As a former NYC designer, how bad was the culture shock for you?

[Anonymous]

I made $70k/year when I first moved there, in 2003, and I also had student loan payments. I lived in Manhattan and did ok- I had some social life, did some traveling, and didn't go into credit card debt or anything like that. Obviously $40k is way less.

The biggest thing is going to be housing. The good parts of Brooklyn are as expensive as Manhattan. She should look for something in Queens; there may also be some deals to be had in a walkup on the UES, or far north manhattan. Really, though- even Bushwick, Prospect Heights, etc. are pretty expensive now.

Does she know anyone there? The apartment market is kind of crazy in NYC; I got a great deal on 2 places basically because I took over leases for friends or acquaintances who were moving out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What does she do for a living and are there jobs in her field elsewhere or is she in a NYC specific industry? Honestly if she can make 40k elsewhere - isn't that convincing enough from a COL perspective? Besides SF, NYC is the most expensive city in the country and not meant for people who make less than 150k but want to live nicely -- meaning a dishwasher, washer dryer, and car.

Just moved to DC from Manhattan 4 weeks ago and I'm stunned at the cost of living here. Everyone here tells me it's so expensive, yet the COL here right now is what NYC was back in the early 2000s.

Oy, I know. We made reverse move a year ago. Feel like money just burns through our hands here.

[Anonymous]

Does she really want out -- or is she just complaining as everyone in NYC does? I am the PP who moved to DC 4 weeks ago bc I just could no longer deal with a place where a washer/dryer is considered a luxury for which you pay $3500/rent rather than $2500 for a studio (meaning those "little" luxuries that everyone in suburbia are considered true luxury in Manhattan and thus landlords charge about $1000/month more for otherwise crappy apartments).

Having grown up in suburbia -- 10 yrs in an apt without wall to wall carpeting or a thermostat (meaning you have to get up in the night to turn the heat on/off) or a car -- was more than I could take. And yet my friends there think I'm nuts and don't see these "hassles" as a reason to leave the "greatest city on earth."

I think life there is way over rated unless you're making investment banking/hedge fund money you can't make in other cities -- in which case you can afford luxuries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does she really want out -- or is she just complaining as everyone in NYC does? I am the PP who moved to DC 4 weeks ago bc I just could no longer deal with a place where a washer/dryer is considered a luxury for which you pay $3500/rent rather than $2500 for a studio (meaning those "little" luxuries that everyone in suburbia are considered true luxury in Manhattan and thus landlords charge about $1000/month more for otherwise crappy apartments).

Having grown up in suburbia -- 10 yrs in an apt without wall to wall carpeting or a thermostat (meaning you have to get up in the night to turn the heat on/off) or a car -- was more than I could take. And yet my friends there think I'm nuts and don't see these "hassles" as a reason to leave the "greatest city on earth."

I think life there is way over rated unless you're making investment banking/hedge fund money you can't make in other cities -- in which case you can afford luxuries.

I agree. NYC is very expensive. Housing wise comparing market rents, you'll pay 3x as much for similar housing as DC. Also, bc there are so many people making lots of money in finance which is NYC's main economic engine - being poor (not making investment banking money) is very obvious. Being poor in NYC sucks more than other places bc it basically means you can't really DO anything - most of the "fun" stuff there is expensive.

The only people I know who do OK on 40K a yr have rent controlled apts that they inherited from their parents: Think Monica in Friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does she really want out -- or is she just complaining as everyone in NYC does? I am the PP who moved to DC 4 weeks ago bc I just could no longer deal with a place where a washer/dryer is considered a luxury for which you pay $3500/rent rather than $2500 for a studio (meaning those "little" luxuries that everyone in suburbia are considered true luxury in Manhattan and thus landlords charge about $1000/month more for otherwise crappy apartments).

Having grown up in suburbia -- 10 yrs in an apt without wall to wall carpeting or a thermostat (meaning you have to get up in the night to turn the heat on/off) or a car -- was more than I could take. And yet my friends there think I'm nuts and don't see these "hassles" as a reason to leave the "greatest city on earth."

I think life there is way over rated unless you're making investment banking/hedge fund money you can't make in other cities -- in which case you can afford luxuries.

I agree. NYC is very expensive. Housing wise comparing market rents, you'll pay 3x as much for similar housing as DC. Also, bc there are so many people making lots of money in finance which is NYC's main economic engine - being poor (not making investment banking money) is very obvious. Being poor in NYC sucks more than other places bc it basically means you can't really DO anything - most of the "fun" stuff there is expensive.

The only people I know who do OK on 40K a yr have rent controlled apts that they inherited from their parents: Think Monica in Friends.

+1. The only way I'd consider NYC on 40k -- assuming I had grown up half way decent someplace else (meaning just a car, a washer/dryer etc.) is if I had a rent controlled place or a trust fund or was married to an investment banking MD or the like. There are PLENTY of young people in NYC falling into those two categories, which drives down salaries for all industries besides biglaw and I-banking. There are 35 yr olds willing to work in fashion or non profits or whatever for $30k and are still able to live reasonably well bc of rent control or a trust or a spouse in finance. So employers in those types of industries have no need to drive up salaries -- it's not like they're lacking for candidates so it doesn't matter if they pay a liveable wage or not. If your sister stays in design and stays in NYC, this will be a lifelong problem. I mean she wouldn't always make 40k but even if she jumps up to 60k or 70k in 5 yrs, it'll still be tight -- it's tight on those salaries now and I don't see NYC getting cheaper in the next 5-10 yrs.

You don't say what kind of design work she does, but has she considered a city like Atlanta? Unlike DC it is a city driven by the private sector, not public -- so she may have more opportunities. The creative/arts employment there is growing as it's becoming a hot secondary market for shooting movies and it's always had a music scene. If she's in some kind of design that transitions well to corporate America (i.e. not fashion) maybe in a marketing/PR kind of role -- there are quite a few big employers like Home Depot, Delta, GE. And her COL will be next to nothing. I mean a luxury apartment in Buckhead (just an area of the city where many live) rents for under $2000 for a one bedroom -- we're talking new glass skyscrapers with luxury everything; the kind of place that in Manhattan would easily rent for $4000-5000.

[Anonymous]

there are many people who live in NYC on 40k. one obvious solution is roommates, as in 5-6. it is common even for mid-career professionals in NYC to have a roommate or two. another option is north manhattan or queens.

i lived there for 7 years in 2000s on a grad. student fellowship. i was fine, but it was a rent-controlled apartment.

[Anonymous]

Depending on what kind of design work she does specifically, a city like Philadelphia may be an option as well. There has been an influx of designers/artsy types into Phil in the last yr or two as Phil has been pushing its -- we're like a 6th borough of NYC campaign. It most certainly is not that, but due to proximity to NYC -- lots of smaller employers in the arts fields have moved their HQ down to Phl where it is much cheaper to run a business. Your sister doesn't sound senior enough to where she can ask her employer if she can live in Phil and work from home and come up to NYC as needed, but she could likely get a new job in Phl. The COL is great -- cheapest of the Boston to DC corridor, though it's typically the city with the worst employability on that corridor so there are tradeoffs. It would just give her some breathing room financially to save some money, live in a nicer place etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:there are many people who live in NYC on 40k. one obvious solution is roommates, as in 5-6. it is common even for mid-career professionals in NYC to have a roommate or two. another option is north manhattan or queens.

i lived there for 7 years in 2000s on a grad. student fellowship. i was fine, but it was a rent-controlled apartment.

It depends on how you grew up and how desperate you are to be in NYC. I have friends who simply will not leave NYC -- even if it means being 35 and living with roommates in far out Queens; to them the "city" is worth it. I am of the view of -- I grew up nicely -- nothing fancy just normal American middle class suburban; eventually that is the life I want for myself and that life is nearly impossible to achieve in NYC. Even well educated professionals in their mid 30s in NYC will not have a washer dryer unless they're willing to pay thru the nose; to me the "city" isn't worth it enough to be running my laundry down to the gross basement constantly only to find the other machines in use.