DCPCS Initiative: Test 3 and 4 year olds starting in 2013- meeting: August 19

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that this testing is encouraging preschool teachers to "teach to the test" rather than provide activities that are developmentally appropriate, because preschools and day care centers are going to be rated on how well the children do on the Kindergarten Entrance Assessment. BTW, I found out at an OSSE meeting that they have been tracking children from preschools for the past 2 years (they've been assigning them numbers).

Have you looked at the test? My kids have taken "test" in PreS and PreK. The results gave me a great indication of areas when they excel/lacking/on target in their developmental stages.

+1. I found these assessments very informative and helpful.

Not a big deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is extreme paranoia.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that this testing is encouraging preschool teachers to "teach to the test" rather than provide activities that are developmentally appropriate, because preschools and day care centers are going to be rated on how well the children do on the Kindergarten Entrance Assessment. BTW, I found out at an OSSE meeting that they have been tracking children from preschools for the past 2 years (they've been assigning them numbers).

Teaching to the assessment is only an issue if you've got a poorly designed assessment. If you have an assessment that measures the right skills, and uses the correct increments, then a quality program is going to lead to better outcomes, both on the test and in Kindergarten.

The KEA is new, and most people haven't seen it, but ECE PMF's have been around for several years. The question needs to be "how good is the KEA?" not "Oh my GOD, there are assessments in PK!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that this testing is encouraging preschool teachers to "teach to the test" rather than provide activities that are developmentally appropriate, because preschools and day care centers are going to be rated on how well the children do on the Kindergarten Entrance Assessment. BTW, I found out at an OSSE meeting that they have been tracking children from preschools for the past 2 years (they've been assigning them numbers).

Teaching to the assessment is only an issue if you've got a poorly designed assessment. If you have an assessment that measures the right skills, and uses the correct increments, then a quality program is going to lead to better outcomes, both on the test and in Kindergarten.

The KEA is new, and most people haven't seen it, but ECE PMF's have been around for several years. The question needs to be "how good is the KEA?" not "Oh my GOD, there are assessments in PK!"

I agree with you--I guess I'm just not very trusting of DCPS, though I do feel better knowing that Teaching Strategies (of the Creative Curriculum) is the designer of the test.

I'm not happy, though, that child care centers are going to be scrutinized based on the results. A center who accepts children with developmental delays, many impoverished children, children with emotional issues, etc, may suffer as a result of their children not doing well on the exams--through no fault of the center.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that this testing is encouraging preschool teachers to "teach to the test" rather than provide activities that are developmentally appropriate, because preschools and day care centers are going to be rated on how well the children do on the Kindergarten Entrance Assessment. BTW, I found out at an OSSE meeting that they have been tracking children from preschools for the past 2 years (they've been assigning them numbers).

Teaching to the assessment is only an issue if you've got a poorly designed assessment. If you have an assessment that measures the right skills, and uses the correct increments, then a quality program is going to lead to better outcomes, both on the test and in Kindergarten.

The KEA is new, and most people haven't seen it, but ECE PMF's have been around for several years. The question needs to be "how good is the KEA?" not "Oh my GOD, there are assessments in PK!"

I agree with you--I guess I'm just not very trusting of DCPS, though I do feel better knowing that Teaching Strategies (of the Creative Curriculum) is the designer of the test.

I'm not happy, though, that child care centers are going to be scrutinized based on the results. A center who accepts children with developmental delays, many impoverished children, children with emotional issues, etc, may suffer as a result of their children not doing well on the exams--through no fault of the center.

If it's like the current PMF, ECE programs are only graded on "growth", so if you move a 4 year old from an 18 month old level to a 3 year old level (for example) you get lots of credit.

[Anonymous]

I'm the poster above, and I'm not a big DCPS fan, but I will say that one thing DCPS has consistently done well is to have developmentally appropriate PS/PK standards, and to select developmentally appropriate ECE curricula. In an era where so many other states are focused on pushing down rote academics, DC is investing in Reggio, and Tools of the Mind, and Creative Curriculum. So, I would be cautiously optimistic about this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rhea here:yes, all charter school have been doing assessments, the difference is that now these PreK assessments will be linked to the performance rankings of the charter schools which in turn may affect the funding of that school.

Previously, the assessments were to track the development only. They are testing literacy, mathematics primarily and some social/emotional indicators.

Do you think that could lead to the charter schools trying to counsel out/remove "low performing" preschoolers?

OP here: they were vague about this. I will admit, we are first time parents, so since this system is new to us, we have no frame of reference for the types of assessments that have been administered in PCS schools.

One reason we thought charters would be a better option for our child was because the testing culture is not as prevalent in some of the charter schools. We noticed that at all of DC public schools we visited that the culture was about preparing the students so they would eventually score well on the DCCAS.

If veteran parents have insights and want to constructively share their experiences and insights, I appreciate that and candid, civil discussion. (Hard I know for some DC Urban mom)

I received a link to the meeting agenda: public comment starts at 7:30. Here is the link: http://www.livebinders.com/media/get/NTc5Mzk2Ng==

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that this testing is encouraging preschool teachers to "teach to the test" rather than provide activities that are developmentally appropriate, because preschools and day care centers are going to be rated on how well the children do on the Kindergarten Entrance Assessment. BTW, I found out at an OSSE meeting that they have been tracking children from preschools for the past 2 years (they've been assigning them numbers).

Have you looked at the test? My kids have taken "test" in PreS and PreK. The results gave me a great indication of areas when they excel/lacking/on target in their developmental stages.

OP here. My understanding is that each school gets to choose the assessment test they want to use from a DCPCSB approved list.
At the meeting, some asked if it was possible for DCPCSB to help parents to actually view the tests because a parent had called some of the publishing companies that sell these tests to schools. The only way to get a test is to purchase one.

The DCPCSB reps actually said they did not really know what was on each particular test, but said that they do get samples. However, it was not clear they would actually share them. If parents want to learn more about assessments and tests, the implied message was that we are pretty much on our own.

So while this year the "assessments" may seem like what schools have used in past years to veteran charter school parents to check the progress of a student's development, to a newcomer to this system, these tests seem to have a different tenor altogether.

If you want a copy of the documents from DCPCSB that I received, please email me at [e-mail].

[Anonymous]

I was really pleased my dc's school conducted a reading assessment at the end of PK. It helped us understand where he was and we were pleased that the teacher spent that amount of time.

[Anonymous]

This is not new people!!! Welcome to PUBLIC education! I am a former teacher at a well know-charter school where I was mandated to test my 3-year old students, 4 times a year, using 4 different standardized tests!!! DCPS does less testing, per se (they only use one assessment tool) but your child will still have to be assessed at 3/4 years old!
Sad to say, but if you want the type of early childhood experience that maybe you had, your best bet is a private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you send your children to public institutions, there will be testing. But really, it's not a big deal. The tests are fun for the kids. It is generally a kid being asked questions by a teacher one on one, and they absolutely love the attention and generally love the attention. My children have had many similar tests and they beg for more. It is not some big boogeyman.

These tests are not fun. You are kidding yourself if you think they are.

[Anonymous]

There are basically 2 types of assessments given to preschoolers.

One is a straight up test, where someone sits down with the child and asks them to answer questions or do tasks and then gives them a score.

Here's a link to videos of a preschooler taking the IGDI's which is an example of this type of test. This test is given 3 times a year, and generally takes about 15 minutes for language/literacy and 15 minutes for math, if you include the time to settle the child in, praise them for doing a good job, let them take a little break.

http://www.myigdis.com/why-myigdis/tech-info-resources/demo-videos-igdis-el-2/

The other kind of assessment is based on observations and work samples taken from normal preschool activities. For example, you might collect a drawing for each child, and ask them to add their name if they didn't, and then score how well they write their name on the rubric. Or you might play a game like Simon Says and have someone watching and noting which kids can stand on one foot.

Each kind of test has pros and cons.

Adult directed pros: quick, easy to administer, score, and get back to teaching. You get a better sense of what kids "can" do, rather than what they chose to do on that particular day.

Adult directed cons: some skills are really hard to test in this way, which can lead to programs that are slanted towards "testable" skills, can get a kid on a bad day and not get a lot of information. Harder to translate into activities to develop skills, because the tests don't resemble teaching activities.

Observation pros: less intrusive to kids, can assess a wide range of skills which makes "teaching to the test" less of an issue (e.g. if you're assessing persistence and imaginative play, and their ability to climb all over the playground, you're less likely to end up with a full day of direct instruction on the carpet)

Observation cons: take up a large amount of teacher time, observational bias, you're testing what children choose to do, or what you happen to notice, rather than their best performance.

[Anonymous]

How many of you don't want to know how well a school is preparing a child, even a PK class. I personally am not turning down the data. I don't know the initials of what they used when we were at Appletree but it was extremely informative and useful for the the K teacher when we started at a regular school. The testing issue is like the vaccine issue to me, those who rail against it don't think through the consequences of when we did not have it. Can testing be a problem yes, but it is the design of the tests not the actual tests that are a problem.

[Anonymous]

We are entering a charter and cringe at the thought of testing kids that early. It's my gut reaction from the standpoint that I hate tests and I have a(n irrational?) fear of being judged. And it's even worse to think of MY sweet, innocent special snowflake being judged by some cold test. (That's TIC) But then I step back and see that I'm coming from a place of socioeconomic privilege. There is no way my kid is not going to be ready for K.

However, DCPS/DCPCS is not just charged with my SES class (which is a white, middle, two-educated parent family) where such things are a given. My take of school choice in DC is that it's still very much an experiment (at least it felt that way at the Charter Expo) and there needs to be some sort of measure and accountability. So some assessment is necessary.

However, I can see why the alternative models like Montessori is fighting against this, especially if funds are at stake. Their method requires more commitment and faith in the process and system, and the payoffs may not be immediately measurable.

How to balance that...well, ain't that the million dollar question....

[Anonymous]

? What's wrong with testing?