Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?

[Anonymous]

hello, Basis operators -- it's fine for you to post here, but would be nice if you identified yourselves -- especially when it's so obvious.

Basis may not propose to humiliate students -- it just will when kids are held back. They won't have to counsel them out either -- kids will beg to leave rather than be held back.

I think it's great for schools to meet the needs of advanced learners, as long as they don't mistreat the less-advanced in the process

[Anonymous]

Lastly, Basis does not counsel anyone out.

Ha. Oh, you are serious? I teach 8th grade in DC. I have students who are on a 3rd grade level in math, who come to school 3-4 days a week, who are not on ADHD medicine even though their moms insist that they have ADHD and need all kinds of accommodations. I have students who constantly disrupt, walk out of class, etc. i have students whose parents say they are smart and potentially gifted, even though the kid has an IQ of 74. Do you think these kids will not enroll at BASIS? They will. And when they do, Basis will have no choice but to counsel them out.

[Anonymous]

+1.

It's just that Basis won't counsel kids out, even if it could, any more than Yu Ying has been permitted or inclined to counsel out kids who aren't a good fit for immersion Chinese.

Not sporting to oust poor kids from charters. DC Charter/Basis would be asking for serious political trouble, and an avalanche of bad press, if they went this route, so they won't.

I predict an arrangement whereby families of better students vote with their feet along the way, as at Latin. Parents may claim that this is changing radically at Latin but it's not.

Look at Wilson, still less than 1/4 white in a district that's been more than 2/3 white for a long time. Without more practical approaches, you hit the wall after MS and the school limps along, like Banneker and Walls, proclaiming excellence when few graduates get to 5-star colleges (shh, don't advertise where the kids actually end up).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:hello, Basis operators -- it's fine for you to post here, but would be nice if you identified yourselves -- especially when it's so obvious.

Basis may not propose to humiliate students -- it just will when kids are held back. They won't have to counsel them out either -- kids will beg to leave rather than be held back.

I think it's great for schools to meet the needs of advanced learners, as long as they don't mistreat the less-advanced in the process

I am a parent of a future Basis student and not an operator

How is offering extensive tutoring for many months this year prior to the start of the upcoming school year and offering daily tutoring sessions and supports prior to and after school during the school year mistreating anyone???

How is repeating a grade mistreating anyone?? Repeating a grade should not automatically be assumed to be humiliating. That is your point of view. I "failed" some classes in school and know of others who had to repeat grades and they were able to put a positive spin on it and make the most of the experience. After all, we often grow and learn from our "failures."

[Anonymous]

I haven't read all the post. My understanding is if a child fails a class, they will repeat that class over again. I feel there is nothing wrong with that. If you fail a college class, don't you have to take it again?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read all the post. My understanding is if a child fails a class, they will repeat that class over again. I feel there is nothing wrong with that. If you fail a college class, don't you have to take it again?

Exactly

[Anonymous]

Social promotion does the child a tremendous disservice. Social promotion is what I consider the REAL abuse of children. Social promotion is the reason why we have kids in high school who can barely read or do math. Social promotion teaches our kids that they don't ever have to try, that they don't ever have to work hard, it sets them up to just expect good fortune to fall their way - ultimately setting them up for failure in their adult lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why it would be so awful simply to identify and attract kids who could and would do the work at Basis?

If a DC charter school can't pick kid who would be a good fit for the school, change the law, or make the school a DCPS school, or the first DCPS-charter hybrid (at a time when DCPS officials have started making public statements about creating such schools). PPs call this approach a "fantasy," when it's the norm in cities all over the country, large and small.

My older child attended a selective admissions MS in NYC, before we moved to NW. Most of the kids were black or Latino from low or moderate-income families. They had come up through talented and gifted ES programs. Nobody got held back because almost everybody could and would do the work required. The system was simple, uncontroversial and it worked. Without instituting ES TAG programs, isn't DC simply cutting corners on trying to launch a high-powered academic MS attended by many low-income students? The more I hear about how Basis will run, the less inclined I am to think that it will achieve its goals.

By all means, create a magnet school. That isn't the objection. The objection is that you can't use charters to do it.

[Anonymous]

I've largely checked out of the BASIS chats mostly because the concept is preposterous and the named principal is also preposterous. But the reason there is so much argument about counseling in and out is because BASIS DC has touted itself as the saviour of all kids in DC -- if you apply and get a spot they can make you succeed. Therefore, it's obnoxious to backtrack and say if you went to the seminars and attended the other stuff you ought to be prepared for counseling out -- there's a nice lousy DCPS just around the corner waiting for you. But, wait -- they're stuck with DCPS teachers and the union, so oh, never mind. But -- I still care a lot for ALL KIDS SUCCEEDING. So never mind!

[Anonymous]

To the 8th grade teacher, do you really think a good number of these kids will enroll at BASIS? That's why we have so many of these kids, you so aptly describe, at DCPS because a lot of their parents don't know how or can not be bothered to seek services to meet the needs of their children. Hence, the high number of undiagnosed disruptive students at middle and high school. Those children won't last a minute at BASIS, they won't need to be counseled out. Many DCPS students need to be held back and given intensive alternative services to help them get back on grade level, social promotion is hurting them in the long run.

[Anonymous]

By all means, create a magnet school. That isn't the objection. The objection is that you can't use charters to do it.

So how does one create a top magnet then? DCPS almost certainly won't do it, charters can't/won't do it, pols, parents and unions won't touch selective admissions (not "equitable!!"). Other than perhaps inviting Bloomberg down to crack the whip and pave the way, there's no avenue of advance. Why not create the mechanism with some twist on charters? The distinction between DCPS and charter is blurring anyway ("neighborhood charters!" didn't the Capitol Hill Cluster do that long ago?). Go on, blur it some more. Just get a school that turns out the kind of graduates that TJ and Blair have for several decades and DC voters will be placated. Innovate. Just do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've largely checked out of the BASIS chats mostly because the concept is preposterous and the named principal is also preposterous. But the reason there is so much argument about counseling in and out is because BASIS DC has touted itself as the saviour of all kids in DC -- if you apply and get a spot they can make you succeed. Therefore, it's obnoxious to backtrack and say if you went to the seminars and attended the other stuff you ought to be prepared for counseling out -- there's a nice lousy DCPS just around the corner waiting for you. But, wait -- they're stuck with DCPS teachers and the union, so oh, never mind. But -- I still care a lot for ALL KIDS SUCCEEDING. So never mind!

I care about all kids succeeding too. The best way to meet the needs of all kids is to offer them many choices. Choices will allow parents and students with different needs to find the school that best meets their needs. I think having all schools be "one size fits all" model is a bad idea that will not meet the needs of all students.

I also never heard Basis Dc say they will the savior of everyone.period. It sounds like you just want kids to have no[u] choices and just lousy schools as their options I just do not get it at all.

[Anonymous]

What about the choice of busting your butt to pass a tough entrance exam, like I did for Bronx Science as an 8th grader in public housing? I was tutored at a terrific city center with other kids from my TAG MS, weekends, summers, evenings. Why isn't that a choice?

[Anonymous]

+1 to the posters who rightly point out that social promotion is doing our children more longterm harm than good.

Some posters here have evidently forgotten the core mission and purpose of schools - that being to get kids able to read, write, and equip them with the skills needed to function as an adult in today's world. It's NOT to just babysit them and usher them on to the next grade. If they have not mastered the material, then they are unprepared and lacking the skills needed for the next grade - and accordingly they should not be promoted until they are ready.

Will there be a bunch of sullen 16-year-olds sulking in the back of the 5th-grade classrooms in Basis in a few years? I really, really doubt it. Failing gets old fast. Most kids will either knuckle down and study and get back on track, or they are free to seek out any of the many other available and diverse schooling options that the District is blessed with. And with all of the tutoring and extra help that Basis seems to be offering, any who are willing and able will be able to get back on track.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've largely checked out of the BASIS chats mostly because the concept is preposterous and the named principal is also preposterous. But the reason there is so much argument about counseling in and out is because BASIS DC has touted itself as the saviour of all kids in DC -- if you apply and get a spot they can make you succeed. Therefore, it's obnoxious to backtrack and say if you went to the seminars and attended the other stuff you ought to be prepared for counseling out -- there's a nice lousy DCPS just around the corner waiting for you. But, wait -- they're stuck with DCPS teachers and the union, so oh, never mind. But -- I still care a lot for ALL KIDS SUCCEEDING. So never mind!

I disagree, PP. I attended several information sessions while deciding whether or not to send DC to BASIS. My impression was always that BASIS is positioning itself to provided a rigorous curriculum for children with a modicum of intellect and a great deal of perseverance. I have never heard it touted as the savior of all kids in DC.

BASIS DC will have a lower retention rate than Latin. and it is likely that only one third of the entering 5th and 6th graders will actually graduate from the high school. The founders made it clear that BASIS is not for everyone, and that many of the BASIS students who are able to pass there comprehensive exams over the next several years will nevertheless choose to leave after 8th grade. Those students will come to the realization that they do not want to work so hard in high school.

I suspect that the BASIS DC "drop outs" will go on to be quite successful at their chosen high schools. I would not be at all surprised to see former BASIS DC middle school students on the honor rolls at Wilson, SWW, Banneker, Latin and even some area privates in a few years. Nevertheless, the fact that these students ultimately chose leave BASIS DC will be used as evidence that BASIS DC counsels students out.