How to be married to an extreme avoidant?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you value most about him?

Does he have these challenges at work, too, or is he able to maintain steady employment?

Op here. He is extremely intelligent. I believe he loves me as best he can.

He maintains a low stress job that is focused on one of his special interests (college professor).

Oh, that's awesome, and quite an accomplishment. Clearly he can put in the work when it's something that interests him, as otherwise he would not have gotten to that point.

I would suggest you try backing way off on trying to hold him "accountable." He quite possibly has high internal standards, and the additional pressure from you may lead to overwhelm rather than the result you seek. You also mentioned in your original post that he tries to get you "off his back," and I would guess this is in response to questions from you. The person who gets to ask the questions has the power, and it sounds like maybe there's a dynamic here (or at least perceived) where you are the authority figure, and maybe he feels backed into a corner.

Work at being an extremely safe place for him. (you can't change him, you can only change yourself and see if that works -- but worst case, you learn some things about yourself in the process even if ultimately you divorce down the road)

Nope

Don’t accommodate dysfunction.

Call a spade a spade Op. he is not marriage material and never will be. I don’t care if he’s book smart and is an underpaid professor at a tier three college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel your pain! Recently got out of my marriage as this was a big issue. Not saying it’s hopeless, but your husband has some healing to do and if he’s not ready, you can’t fix him. He acts this way because of childhood trauma. If you’re like me, my husband’s avoidant attachment triggered my anxious attachment and it was a hamster wheel of constant stress and unhappiness for both of us. It wasn’t until I started my own healing as to why I settled for this type of relationship in the first place! Good luck!

Check out awakeningwithbrian on instagram as that would have saved me so much time and frustration!

Op here. I think if I insist, DH will go to individual therapy. But I feel like it won’t help. When I’ve tried to talk to him about the issue, he says he sees no problem. I worry he wouldn’t be genuine in therapy just like he’s not genuine in any context in his life ever anywhere. Like he will just go to therapy and make up nonsense to make the therapist think all is well.

He says he sees no problem in lying to you?

Op here. He wouldn’t agree that it is lying. Sometimes I’m unsure if he even remembers half of what we talk about. It’s a lot of word salad and passive voice that makes no sense so it’s impossible to hold him accountable for anything.

He learned to do this when a child because it was effective at school, home and with friends. It’s juvenile and immature and it destroys trust and relationships.

Dont waste more time with him.

During COVID I caught my Ex doing the same petty gaslighting and forgetfulness with his coworkers as he did at home when he didn’t want to do anything.

“I never said that”

“I never meant that”

“I would never say that.”

So sick of that BS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you value most about him?

Does he have these challenges at work, too, or is he able to maintain steady employment?

Op here. He is extremely intelligent. I believe he loves me as best he can.

He maintains a low stress job that is focused on one of his special interests (college professor).

Oh, that's awesome, and quite an accomplishment. Clearly he can put in the work when it's something that interests him, as otherwise he would not have gotten to that point.

I would suggest you try backing way off on trying to hold him "accountable." He quite possibly has high internal standards, and the additional pressure from you may lead to overwhelm rather than the result you seek. You also mentioned in your original post that he tries to get you "off his back," and I would guess this is in response to questions from you. The person who gets to ask the questions has the power, and it sounds like maybe there's a dynamic here (or at least perceived) where you are the authority figure, and maybe he feels backed into a corner.

Work at being an extremely safe place for him. (you can't change him, you can only change yourself and see if that works -- but worst case, you learn some things about yourself in the process even if ultimately you divorce down the road)

Sure, OP, be a safe place for a man with whom you can't have the most basic plans or commitments. Have no expectations of him so he can just .... come and go and flake out on life? That way he won't lie to you at least. Jeez.

Yes, like of those finger trap toys - the harder you pull, the more you get stuck, so just try to relax. She did marry him and have kids with him, and she says she believes that he is trying to love her. Not that she's obligated to try if she doesn't want to, but her question was how to stay married.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel your pain! Recently got out of my marriage as this was a big issue. Not saying it’s hopeless, but your husband has some healing to do and if he’s not ready, you can’t fix him. He acts this way because of childhood trauma. If you’re like me, my husband’s avoidant attachment triggered my anxious attachment and it was a hamster wheel of constant stress and unhappiness for both of us. It wasn’t until I started my own healing as to why I settled for this type of relationship in the first place! Good luck!

Check out awakeningwithbrian on instagram as that would have saved me so much time and frustration!

Op here. I think if I insist, DH will go to individual therapy. But I feel like it won’t help. When I’ve tried to talk to him about the issue, he says he sees no problem. I worry he wouldn’t be genuine in therapy just like he’s not genuine in any context in his life ever anywhere. Like he will just go to therapy and make up nonsense to make the therapist think all is well.

He says he sees no problem in lying to you?

Op here. He wouldn’t agree that it is lying. Sometimes I’m unsure if he even remembers half of what we talk about. It’s a lot of word salad and passive voice that makes no sense so it’s impossible to hold him accountable for anything.

Riddles and more riddles. Lovely communication style he developed over the decades to get out of responsibilities

[Anonymous]

Op here. I want to stay married because I believe coparenting with him would be worse than this.

We have kids.

I don’t believe he’d actually exercise his full visitation rights but I do believe on paper he’d want 50/50. He’d have the right to have the kids half the time.

Our communication is terrible now but I fear it would truly get even worse if we divorced because there wouldn’t be any goodwill left.

I just don’t know how to fix or improve things if he won’t talk to me or if he doesn’t tell the truth when he does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I want to stay married because I believe coparenting with him would be worse than this.

We have kids.

I don’t believe he’d actually exercise his full visitation rights but I do believe on paper he’d want 50/50. He’d have the right to have the kids half the time.

Our communication is terrible now but I fear it would truly get even worse if we divorced because there wouldn’t be any goodwill left.

I just don’t know how to fix or improve things if he won’t talk to me or if he doesn’t tell the truth when he does.

Are there ways to lighten your load so there's less stress on you, even without DH doing something different? Whether that's hiring a service if you can afford it or reevaluating expectations.

[Anonymous]

Do the divorce. Your kids are screwed either way with a father like that. They aren’t screwed if he fades away from his custody time. They’re equally screwed in a household with him or with him during his custody time.

[Anonymous]

Is he missing an empathy chip? It sounds so—& that really won’t help your kids to develop their *own* healthy attachment or help you feel validated as you deserve to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel your pain! Recently got out of my marriage as this was a big issue. Not saying it’s hopeless, but your husband has some healing to do and if he’s not ready, you can’t fix him. He acts this way because of childhood trauma. If you’re like me, my husband’s avoidant attachment triggered my anxious attachment and it was a hamster wheel of constant stress and unhappiness for both of us. It wasn’t until I started my own healing as to why I settled for this type of relationship in the first place! Good luck!

Check out awakeningwithbrian on instagram as that would have saved me so much time and frustration!

Op here. I think if I insist, DH will go to individual therapy. But I feel like it won’t help. When I’ve tried to talk to him about the issue, he says he sees no problem. I worry he wouldn’t be genuine in therapy just like he’s not genuine in any context in his life ever anywhere. Like he will just go to therapy and make up nonsense to make the therapist think all is well.

This sounds psychotic and he has some serious mental disorders. Get out. Or you’ll go insane too.

OP, I think you know this situation has evolved into a tipping point for your marriage. If you want out, and I’m thinking you do, lawyer up and start planning.

If he’s actually a guy hiding a personality disorder, and you’re going to find out the hard way no matter, act YESTERDAY. Talk to friends and family honestly about what’s up before he gets a chance to start the victimhood and smear campaign.

Trust me, it’s going to be difficult and expensive but you’re buying back the rest of your life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I want to stay married because I believe coparenting with him would be worse than this.

We have kids.

I don’t believe he’d actually exercise his full visitation rights but I do believe on paper he’d want 50/50. He’d have the right to have the kids half the time.

Our communication is terrible now but I fear it would truly get even worse if we divorced because there wouldn’t be any goodwill left.

I just don’t know how to fix or improve things if he won’t talk to me or if he doesn’t tell the truth when he does.

This exactly. You can't change him. But unless your kids are older and can advocate for themselves, I would say wait for the 50/50. Coparenting in separate households means you can't be there at all for your kids when he is being avoidant with them. I am waiting because I think it's best for the kids if I do. I am also not depressed anymore. I can be in the same house and just live a separate life.

[Anonymous]

I think you should try weekly (or twice weekly) couples therapy and address this behavior directly with the therapist and give it 6 months to see if there is any improvement. If it doesn't improve, separate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel your pain! Recently got out of my marriage as this was a big issue. Not saying it’s hopeless, but your husband has some healing to do and if he’s not ready, you can’t fix him. He acts this way because of childhood trauma. If you’re like me, my husband’s avoidant attachment triggered my anxious attachment and it was a hamster wheel of constant stress and unhappiness for both of us. It wasn’t until I started my own healing as to why I settled for this type of relationship in the first place! Good luck!

Check out awakeningwithbrian on instagram as that would have saved me so much time and frustration!

DP, same. Avoidant ex-DH + anxious attachment me = misery

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I want to stay married because I believe coparenting with him would be worse than this.

We have kids.

I don’t believe he’d actually exercise his full visitation rights but I do believe on paper he’d want 50/50. He’d have the right to have the kids half the time.

Our communication is terrible now but I fear it would truly get even worse if we divorced because there wouldn’t be any goodwill left.

I just don’t know how to fix or improve things if he won’t talk to me or if he doesn’t tell the truth when he does.

This exactly. You can't change him. But unless your kids are older and can advocate for themselves, I would say wait for the 50/50. Coparenting in separate households means you can't be there at all for your kids when he is being avoidant with them. I am waiting because I think it's best for the kids if I do. I am also not depressed anymore. I can be in the same house and just live a separate life.

This, OP. DP. Stop expecting him to change. We can only change ourselves. When your kids are older and self sufficient enough, re-evaluate. Think of him as having a trauma based or mental health or attachment disability and work around it. Work on yourself to unpack your history and understand why you chose this. Trying to force therapy on this person is not going to help. Be the leader of the house, as if you were single. He will likely happily go along. Think of it as practice.

[Anonymous]

I'm trying to understand the dynamic and what is meant by "avoidant"? Can you give an example?

Given the folks telling you to leave, I think I'm not understanding how serious the issue is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm trying to understand the dynamic and what is meant by "avoidant"? Can you give an example?

Given the folks telling you to leave, I think I'm not understanding how serious the issue is?

Op here. A recent example-I had been encouraging DH to see a doctor for months to get a physical to see if depression/low T might be a factor.

I scheduled a doctors appointment for him at a time he said worked. He went to the appointment and I asked him how it went when he got back and he gave me a generic response.

A couple months later, I was trying to track down the receipt to submit to our HSA for reimbursement. DH cannot find it. I call the doctors office. He never went to the appointment. He no showed.

I go back to DH to ask him what happened?? He says he went to the doc and doesn’t know what I’m talking about. Then when I insist he gives me a vague word salad non answer.

In this example, he’s anxious about going to the doc. But he knew I’d be upset if he didn’t go, so instead of telling he didn’t want to, he pretended to go. Then when I caught him in the lie, instead of just owning it, he added more lies and deflection to avoid me being mad at him.

Basically it’s just never addressing anything head on.