DC Auditor Report on Duke Ellington

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The parking thing isn't unique to Ellington. DCPS says they must install one at Murch because of zoning, and will be destroying a playground to do it. Doesn't Janney have one too?

Now supposedly the city is saying no more underground parking garages but in the initial waves of building they were de riguer (similar to kilns at elementary schools).

Underground parking isn't always a waste of money. It depends.

What is clear is that it is a waste of money in this case. The school should have been moved to a more central, metro accessible location.

The reason it was not is because its political backers like the prestige of the current site and saw the sensible suggestions to move it as being part of The Plan.

That's as far as I can determine. It is a total scandal, reminiscent of Barry- era DC.

Actually, parking isn't a waste of money, that is why it is such a huge issue in zoning. The fraud and waste here is in the cost of the parking.

The zoning in effect for this project would have stated 2 spots for every 3 adults employed in the building, so probably about (135 * 2/3) = 90 parking spots (BTW that seems like a super high staff ratio for a public school with 500 kids, especially the high number of non-teaching staff). Where on this planet does parking, even underground parking, for 90 spots cost $60 million dollars, or $666,666 per parking space? Is just doesn't. The average cost per space in DC is something like $40,000 per space. The whole thing should have cost less than what they are paying for a single parking space.

The problem is not that they HAVE underground parking; the problem is in what they are PAYING for it. This is the problem on all of the school projects. You have to have parking, and sometimes given the site constraints and size of the school, you may even have to have underground parking; but you don't have to pay over half-a-million dollars per spot to get it. This is where we can smell fraud, waste, and abuse.

Agree with this. The issue is not having parking, it is the cost. These schools are not located downtown where there are public parking garages and believe it or not, not everyone can take a Metro bus or train from their home to work. It is ridiculous to think that is the case. Many of these teachers live outside the city and have their own families to get home to in a timely manner. We shouldn't force them to take public transportation just because we pay them on the city dime. If that is the case, make all the Council members and Mayor take public transportation too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:..."Much of the cost overruns - $60M - can be attributed to the underground parking."

Underground parking changes the entire scope of a project, especially when dealing with tight neighborhood like that.

I've seen weird things get put into an ed spec document, but this takes the cake. The problem is there is no fingerprint to say exactly who asked for the change and why.

Janney got an underground parking garage but no one takes them to task.

That is particularly galling, given that it is practically on top of a metro (unlike DE or Murch).

Completely agree. I'm a Murch parent and was sick over the stupid underground parking issue. They were going to sacrifice playground space so that teacher could have parking. Why the hell are we really there? To provide education or appease the unions?[/quote]

Uh, how long have you lived in DC? Appeasing public employees is the DC government's primary mission. Providing quality services in an effective and efficient manner, including education, is a quaint afterthought.

Were you paying attention when Rhee instituted Impact and other "reforms" as a way of ridding the system of long-time teachers deemed ineffective. The conditions tied to bonus payments expedited the mass culling. The WTU has been more or less gutted and now wields a small fraction of the power it once had.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The parking thing isn't unique to Ellington. DCPS says they must install one at Murch because of zoning, and will be destroying a playground to do it. Doesn't Janney have one too?

Now supposedly the city is saying no more underground parking garages but in the initial waves of building they were de riguer (similar to kilns at elementary schools).

Underground parking isn't always a waste of money. It depends.

What is clear is that it is a waste of money in this case. The school should have been moved to a more central, metro accessible location.

The reason it was not is because its political backers like the prestige of the current site and saw the sensible suggestions to move it as being part of The Plan.

That's as far as I can determine. It is a total scandal, reminiscent of Barry- era DC.

Actually, parking isn't a waste of money, that is why it is such a huge issue in zoning. The fraud and waste here is in the cost of the parking.

The zoning in effect for this project would have stated 2 spots for every 3 adults employed in the building, so probably about (135 * 2/3) = 90 parking spots (BTW that seems like a super high staff ratio for a public school with 500 kids, especially the high number of non-teaching staff). Where on this planet does parking, even underground parking, for 90 spots cost $60 million dollars, or $666,666 per parking space? Is just doesn't. The average cost per space in DC is something like $40,000 per space. The whole thing should have cost less than what they are paying for a single parking space.

The problem is not that they HAVE underground parking; the problem is in what they are PAYING for it. This is the problem on all of the school projects. You have to have parking, and sometimes given the site constraints and size of the school, you may even have to have underground parking; but you don't have to pay over half-a-million dollars per spot to get it. This is where we can smell fraud, waste, and abuse.

Agree with this. The issue is not having parking, it is the cost. These schools are not located downtown where there are public parking garages and believe it or not, not everyone can take a Metro bus or train from their home to work. It is ridiculous to think that is the case. Many of these teachers live outside the city and have their own families to get home to in a timely manner. We shouldn't force them to take public transportation just because we pay them on the city dime. If that is the case, make all the Council members and Mayor take public transportation too.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Turn it into a regular high school like Wilson with an ARTS focus as the side show.

Arts at DE are no better than Wilson anyway. What we really need in DC is some relief to the overcrowding at Deal and Wilson.

If we have to swallow the huge cost over run then let's make the HS work for many rather than the few 500 of which only half are DC residents.

The building is only used half the day anyway, you could add another 500 kids in a general high school with thoughtful scheduling.

Wrong. The finished building will be used from 8-5 every day. The school day is several hours longer than at the rest of DCPS.

Wrong. At no time is more than half of the building in use.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The parking thing isn't unique to Ellington. DCPS says they must install one at Murch because of zoning, and will be destroying a playground to do it. Doesn't Janney have one too?

Now supposedly the city is saying no more underground parking garages but in the initial waves of building they were de riguer (similar to kilns at elementary schools).

Underground parking isn't always a waste of money. It depends.

What is clear is that it is a waste of money in this case. The school should have been moved to a more central, metro accessible location.

The reason it was not is because its political backers like the prestige of the current site and saw the sensible suggestions to move it as being part of The Plan.

That's as far as I can determine. It is a total scandal, reminiscent of Barry- era DC.

Actually, parking isn't a waste of money, that is why it is such a huge issue in zoning. The fraud and waste here is in the cost of the parking.

The zoning in effect for this project would have stated 2 spots for every 3 adults employed in the building, so probably about (135 * 2/3) = 90 parking spots (BTW that seems like a super high staff ratio for a public school with 500 kids, especially the high number of non-teaching staff). Where on this planet does parking, even underground parking, for 90 spots cost $60 million dollars, or $666,666 per parking space? Is just doesn't. The average cost per space in DC is something like $40,000 per space. The whole thing should have cost less than what they are paying for a single parking space.

The problem is not that they HAVE underground parking; the problem is in what they are PAYING for it. This is the problem on all of the school projects. You have to have parking, and sometimes given the site constraints and size of the school, you may even have to have underground parking; but you don't have to pay over half-a-million dollars per spot to get it. This is where we can smell fraud, waste, and abuse.

Agree with this. The issue is not having parking, it is the cost. These schools are not located downtown where there are public parking garages and believe it or not, not everyone can take a Metro bus or train from their home to work. It is ridiculous to think that is the case. Many of these teachers live outside the city and have their own families to get home to in a timely manner. We shouldn't force them to take public transportation just because we pay them on the city dime. If that is the case, make all the Council members and Mayor take public transportation too.

Love the above. Good idea since they want everyone else to take public transport. I don't even own a car but it does convey the idea that their time is worth more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Turn it into a regular high school like Wilson with an ARTS focus as the side show.

Arts at DE are no better than Wilson anyway. What we really need in DC is some relief to the overcrowding at Deal and Wilson.

If we have to swallow the huge cost over run then let's make the HS work for many rather than the few 500 of which only half are DC residents.

The building is only used half the day anyway, you could add another 500 kids in a general high school with thoughtful scheduling.

Wrong. The finished building will be used from 8-5 every day. The school day is several hours longer than at the rest of DCPS.

Wrong. At no time is more than half of the building in use.

The fine arts people need space, folks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The parking thing isn't unique to Ellington. DCPS says they must install one at Murch because of zoning, and will be destroying a playground to do it. Doesn't Janney have one too?

Now supposedly the city is saying no more underground parking garages but in the initial waves of building they were de riguer (similar to kilns at elementary schools).

Underground parking isn't always a waste of money. It depends.

What is clear is that it is a waste of money in this case. The school should have been moved to a more central, metro accessible location.

The reason it was not is because its political backers like the prestige of the current site and saw the sensible suggestions to move it as being part of The Plan.

That's as far as I can determine. It is a total scandal, reminiscent of Barry- era DC.

Oh come on. There was every reason to leave Duke where it was, given that it had thrived there for decades. Downtown real estate and building costs would have been even more expensive than Georgetown. This continuing irrational effort to tie the location to the inexcusable cost overruns is nothing but snooty Georgetown and Burleith residents who are angry that a bunch of predominantly African American kids have the temerity to attend public school in their neighborhood.

Do you realize that you proved my point? I said that Ellington backers are conspiracy theorists about The Plan and then look at what you write, accusing the nearby neighbors of The Plan.

Well, since I am PP, and I am a nearby neighbor, I think I know a bit about what I am talking about.

The concern trolling for the poor Ellington students who will have to travel to Burleith in their new school, just like they did in the old school, is ridiculous. The school has been in Burleith for decades. Why should it have moved? Who would have benefitted from the move? Why were all the neighbors, and none of the Ellington families pushing for a move? You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to see what was going on here. All you had to do was listen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The parking thing isn't unique to Ellington. DCPS says they must install one at Murch because of zoning, and will be destroying a playground to do it. Doesn't Janney have one too?

Now supposedly the city is saying no more underground parking garages but in the initial waves of building they were de riguer (similar to kilns at elementary schools).

Underground parking isn't always a waste of money. It depends.

What is clear is that it is a waste of money in this case. The school should have been moved to a more central, metro accessible location.

The reason it was not is because its political backers like the prestige of the current site and saw the sensible suggestions to move it as being part of The Plan.

That's as far as I can determine. It is a total scandal, reminiscent of Barry- era DC.

Oh come on. There was every reason to leave Duke where it was, given that it had thrived there for decades. Downtown real estate and building costs would have been even more expensive than Georgetown. This continuing irrational effort to tie the location to the inexcusable cost overruns is nothing but snooty Georgetown and Burleith residents who are angry that a bunch of predominantly African American kids have the temerity to attend public school in their neighborhood.

Do you realize that you proved my point? I said that Ellington backers are conspiracy theorists about The Plan and then look at what you write, accusing the nearby neighbors of The Plan.

Well, since I am PP, and I am a nearby neighbor, I think I know a bit about what I am talking about.

The concern trolling for the poor Ellington students who will have to travel to Burleith in their new school, just like they did in the old school, is ridiculous. The school has been in Burleith for decades. Why should it have moved? Who would have benefitted from the move? Why were all the neighbors, and none of the Ellington families pushing for a move? You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to see what was going on here. All you had to do was listen.

Just because the school has been located somewhere for decades doesn't mean it makes sense for it to remain there. As for who would have benefitted, I'd suggest the students attending Wilson as some could have been shifted to a new Western HS that could accommodate kids from the attendance zine and from across the city. It arguable could then open up more seats at Wilson for OOB students. That's a lot of kids who would have been better off in my mind. Then again, bizarre decades-old conspiracy theories are much more fun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The parking thing isn't unique to Ellington. DCPS says they must install one at Murch because of zoning, and will be destroying a playground to do it. Doesn't Janney have one too?

Now supposedly the city is saying no more underground parking garages but in the initial waves of building they were de riguer (similar to kilns at elementary schools).

Underground parking isn't always a waste of money. It depends.

What is clear is that it is a waste of money in this case. The school should have been moved to a more central, metro accessible location.

The reason it was not is because its political backers like the prestige of the current site and saw the sensible suggestions to move it as being part of The Plan.

That's as far as I can determine. It is a total scandal, reminiscent of Barry- era DC.

Oh come on. There was every reason to leave Duke where it was, given that it had thrived there for decades. Downtown real estate and building costs would have been even more expensive than Georgetown. This continuing irrational effort to tie the location to the inexcusable cost overruns is nothing but snooty Georgetown and Burleith residents who are angry that a bunch of predominantly African American kids have the temerity to attend public school in their neighborhood.

Do you realize that you proved my point? I said that Ellington backers are conspiracy theorists about The Plan and then look at what you write, accusing the nearby neighbors of The Plan.

Well, since I am PP, and I am a nearby neighbor, I think I know a bit about what I am talking about.

The concern trolling for the poor Ellington students who will have to travel to Burleith in their new school, just like they did in the old school, is ridiculous. The school has been in Burleith for decades. Why should it have moved? Who would have benefitted from the move? Why were all the neighbors, and none of the Ellington families pushing for a move? You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to see what was going on here. All you had to do was listen.

Just because the school has been located somewhere for decades doesn't mean it makes sense for it to remain there. As for who would have benefitted, I'd suggest the students attending Wilson as some could have been shifted to a new Western HS that could accommodate kids from the attendance zine and from across the city. It arguable could then open up more seats at Wilson for OOB students. That's a lot of kids who would have been better off in my mind. Then again, bizarre decades-old conspiracy theories are much more fun.

+1.

And diverting hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayer money is of course the party of all parties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The parking thing isn't unique to Ellington. DCPS says they must install one at Murch because of zoning, and will be destroying a playground to do it. Doesn't Janney have one too?

Now supposedly the city is saying no more underground parking garages but in the initial waves of building they were de riguer (similar to kilns at elementary schools).

Underground parking isn't always a waste of money. It depends.

What is clear is that it is a waste of money in this case. The school should have been moved to a more central, metro accessible location.

The reason it was not is because its political backers like the prestige of the current site and saw the sensible suggestions to move it as being part of The Plan.

That's as far as I can determine. It is a total scandal, reminiscent of Barr,y- era DC.

Oh come on. There was every reason to leave Duke where it was, given that it had thrived there for decades. Downtown real estate and building costs would have been even more expensive than Georgetown. This continuing irrational effort to tie the location to the inexcusable cost overruns is nothing but snooty Georgetown and Burleith residents who are angry that a bunch of predominantly African American kids have the temerity to attend public school in their neighborhood.

Do you realize that you proved my point? I said that Ellington backers are conspiracy theorists about The Plan and then look at what you write, accusing the nearby neighbors of The Plan.

Well, since I am PP, and I am a nearby neighbor, I think I know a bit about what I am talking about.

The concern trolling for the poor Ellington students who will have to travel to Burleith in their new school, just like they did in the old school, is ridiculous. The school has been in Burleith for decades. Why should it have moved? Who would have benefitted from the move? Why were all the neighbors, and none of the Ellington families pushing for a move? You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to see what was going on here. All you had to do was listen.

Just because the school has been located somewhere for decades doesn't mean it makes sense for it to remain there. As for who would have benefitted, I'd suggest the students attending Wilson as some could have been shifted to a new Western HS that could accommodate kids from the attendance zine and from across the city. It arguable could then open up more seats at Wilson for OOB students. That's a lot of kids who would have been better off in my mind. Then again, bizarre decades-old conspiracy theories are much more fun.

+1.

And diverting hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayer money is of course the party of all parties.

It makes you wonder how many crony consultants and fly-by-night, connected 8a contractors have a piece of this party action.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The parking thing isn't unique to Ellington. DCPS says they must install one at Murch because of zoning, and will be destroying a playground to do it. Doesn't Janney have one too?

Now supposedly the city is saying no more underground parking garages but in the initial waves of building they were de riguer (similar to kilns at elementary schools).

Underground parking isn't always a waste of money. It depends.

What is clear is that it is a waste of money in this case. The school should have been moved to a more central, metro accessible location.

The reason it was not is because its political backers like the prestige of the current site and saw the sensible suggestions to move it as being part of The Plan.

That's as far as I can determine. It is a total scandal, reminiscent of Barr,y- era DC.

Oh come on. There was every reason to leave Duke where it was, given that it had thrived there for decades. Downtown real estate and building costs would have been even more expensive than Georgetown. This continuing irrational effort to tie the location to the inexcusable cost overruns is nothing but snooty Georgetown and Burleith residents who are angry that a bunch of predominantly African American kids have the temerity to attend public school in their neighborhood.

Do you realize that you proved my point? I said that Ellington backers are conspiracy theorists about The Plan and then look at what you write, accusing the nearby neighbors of The Plan.

Well, since I am PP, and I am a nearby neighbor, I think I know a bit about what I am talking about.

The concern trolling for the poor Ellington students who will have to travel to Burleith in their new school, just like they did in the old school, is ridiculous. The school has been in Burleith for decades. Why should it have moved? Who would have benefitted from the move? Why were all the neighbors, and none of the Ellington families pushing for a move? You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to see what was going on here. All you had to do was listen.

Just because the school has been located somewhere for decades doesn't mean it makes sense for it to remain there. As for who would have benefitted, I'd suggest the students attending Wilson as some could have been shifted to a new Western HS that could accommodate kids from the attendance zine and from across the city. It arguable could then open up more seats at Wilson for OOB students. That's a lot of kids who would have been better off in my mind. Then again, bizarre decades-old conspiracy theories are much more fun.

The old mayor-for-life may be gone, but his racist divisiveness and conspiracy theories live on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The parking thing isn't unique to Ellington. DCPS says they must install one at Murch because of zoning, and will be destroying a playground to do it. Doesn't Janney have one too?

Now supposedly the city is saying no more underground parking garages but in the initial waves of building they were de riguer (similar to kilns at elementary schools).

Underground parking isn't always a waste of money. It depends.

What is clear is that it is a waste of money in this case. The school should have been moved to a more central, metro accessible location.

The reason it was not is because its political backers like the prestige of the current site and saw the sensible suggestions to move it as being part of The Plan.

That's as far as I can determine. It is a total scandal, reminiscent of Barr,y- era DC.

Oh come on. There was every reason to leave Duke where it was, given that it had thrived there for decades. Downtown real estate and building costs would have been even more expensive than Georgetown. This continuing irrational effort to tie the location to the inexcusable cost overruns is nothing but snooty Georgetown and Burleith residents who are angry that a bunch of predominantly African American kids have the temerity to attend public school in their neighborhood.

Do you realize that you proved my point? I said that Ellington backers are conspiracy theorists about The Plan and then look at what you write, accusing the nearby neighbors of The Plan.

Well, since I am PP, and I am a nearby neighbor, I think I know a bit about what I am talking about.

The concern trolling for the poor Ellington students who will have to travel to Burleith in their new school, just like they did in the old school, is ridiculous. The school has been in Burleith for decades. Why should it have moved? Who would have benefitted from the move? Why were all the neighbors, and none of the Ellington families pushing for a move? You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to see what was going on here. All you had to do was listen.

Just because the school has been located somewhere for decades doesn't mean it makes sense for it to remain there. As for who would have benefitted, I'd suggest the students attending Wilson as some could have been shifted to a new Western HS that could accommodate kids from the attendance zine and from across the city. It arguable could then open up more seats at Wilson for OOB students. That's a lot of kids who would have been better off in my mind. Then again, bizarre decades-old conspiracy theories are much more fun.

+1.

And diverting hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayer money is of course the party of all parties.

It makes you wonder how many crony consultants and fly-by-night, connected 8a contractors have a piece of this party action.

Truer words were never said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Turn it into a regular high school like Wilson with an ARTS focus as the side show.

Arts at DE are no better than Wilson anyway. What we really need in DC is some relief to the overcrowding at Deal and Wilson.

If we have to swallow the huge cost over run then let's make the HS work for many rather than the few 500 of which only half are DC residents.

There's some truth in this. We know some students who started at DE for performing arts but then switched to Wilson where they and their parents feel they are getting equivalent arts opportunities and better academics.

The academics at DE are dismal, so I'm not surprised to hear this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Turn it into a regular high school like Wilson with an ARTS focus as the side show.

Arts at DE are no better than Wilson anyway. What we really need in DC is some relief to the overcrowding at Deal and Wilson.

If we have to swallow the huge cost over run then let's make the HS work for many rather than the few 500 of which only half are DC residents.

There's some truth in this. We know some students who started at DE for performing arts but then switched to Wilson where they and their parents feel they are getting equivalent arts opportunities and better academics.

The academics at DE are dismal, so I'm not surprised to hear this.

In the 14-15 PARCC, only THREE percent of students were at level 4 or 5 in Math, and 50% at ELA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Turn it into a regular high school like Wilson with an ARTS focus as the side show.

Arts at DE are no better than Wilson anyway. What we really need in DC is some relief to the overcrowding at Deal and Wilson.

If we have to swallow the huge cost over run then let's make the HS work for many rather than the few 500 of which only half are DC residents.

There's some truth in this. We know some students who started at DE for performing arts but then switched to Wilson where they and their parents feel they are getting equivalent arts opportunities and better academics.

The academics at DE are dismal, so I'm not surprised to hear this.

In the 14-15 PARCC, only THREE percent of students were at level 4 or 5 in Math, and 50% at ELA.

Jesus.