WL everywhere - Disappointed and Stressed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I put my kids stats into collegevine for this last year, and the algorithm has been very accurate for kid. He got into all safeties and targets, so outperformed expectations in those two categories, but had a little worse results in reaches. Still, go into one reach out of 7 and is thrilled to go! Every other reach was a WL or denial.

Collegevine doesn’t adjust for majors, so you’ll need to reduce expectations if you’re CS or engineering boy.

THis 1000%. If your major has an acceptance rate of 12%, it's a reach for everyone, doesn't matter if the school's acceptance rate is 55%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I put my kids stats into collegevine for this last year, and the algorithm has been very accurate for kid. He got into all safeties and targets, so outperformed expectations in those two categories, but had a little worse results in reaches. Still, go into one reach out of 7 and is thrilled to go! Every other reach was a WL or denial.

Collegevine doesn’t adjust for majors, so you’ll need to reduce expectations if you’re CS or engineering boy.

When my son changes his major to engineering vs sociology, for example, the chance percentages significantly change for targets and 2-8 percentage points for reaches.

[Anonymous]

Safeties -
State schools that are not "HOT"
Temple, Michigan State, Kansas, Indiana, Minnesota
Catholic Colleges (excluding BC, Villanova, Holy Cross, GT and Notre Dame)
Schools that extended application dates / are still sending emails: Seton Hall, Hofstra, College of Wooster, Rider, Longwood, NJIT

[Anonymous]

Tennessee not a safety anymore for OOS. 33 percent admit rate. Less for business.

Same with South Carolina with the new state admissions rules (top 10 percent auto admit)

I know because my son got waitlisted at both.

The very very big lesson here is that things can really change year to year so need more safeties and don’t make any assumptions if you are looking at public’s and our OOS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s easy to sit here behind the keyboard and tell this parent to suck it up. In reality, this kid has worked really hard during their high school years and they don’t feel like the schools they are choosing from reflect the work that they have put in. And public or private you all judge kids college choices. When someone posts that their kid gets into an Ivy the comments are all “wow, that’s amazing!!”. When someone posts that they’re going to a “safety” there is not the same reaction. “Congrats!” These kids have spent these years working their ass off, dealing with a pandemic and spending the last year prepping for college admissions. It hurts to get rejection after rejection.

Have a little sympathy here.

Just because they spent years "working their asses off" does not entitle them to admission to a school with single digit acceptance rates. If they are truly "that smart" it should have been obvious to them that those are all reaches for everyone (unless your last name is Bush, trump, Obama, etc). So apply to them and get your lottery ticket. But also cull an excellent list of targets and safeties (and likeliest/guarantees) and find schools at each level your kid will love. If you do that, and know that the reaches are just that, your kid will be happy and have more than 2 to choose from in April.

But you work your ass off in HS to learn and achieve success, and then go onto college and continue. You don't loose that knowledge just because you go to a school ranked #55 or lower.

loose is the opposite of tight...

[Anonymous]

One thing I think people also need to consider is the size of the college and even their own high school—students are competing with others from their high school so if a small college has a 30% admit rate, they may only take 1-2 kids from the same private. If all your reaches/targets are smaller in size, students are risking coming up empty handed if others from their high school edge them out. You can look at the prior year Instagram accounts of high school seniors to see which schools are popular and which admit more than a few students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tennessee not a safety anymore for OOS. 33 percent admit rate. Less for business.

Same with South Carolina with the new state admissions rules (top 10 percent auto admit)

I know because my son got waitlisted at both.

The very very big lesson here is that things can really change year to year so need more safeties and don’t make any assumptions if you are looking at public’s and our OOS.

Did you happen to use CollegeVine for estimating your chances at TN and SC?
It is estimating TN as a 98% chance of admittance for my kid. Wondering if they use outdated data because I have also heard that it is no longer a target or safety.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC waitlisted at most of their reaches. Rejected at a couple. Def a top 10 percent student at a top DC private. Counselor's indication was that DC was competitive everywhere and had "as good a chance as any one else from this school" at Ivy. Feeling very disappointed/stressed. Realize that WL has zero chance of moving. Sorry to vent.

Waitlist means that the app clear the step1 of shortlisting that is based on basis scores / grades. Essentially your app was read. Thereafter, the committee didn't find any oomph or alignment with college priorities to select the applicant.

Getting into a stage where applications are read is a big thing. In 60 to 70% of the cases apps are not even read, and straight send to reject.

If I were you, I will carefully introspect why did the college didnt select - look at the why college essays, and ECs that is or that is not aligned well with college. Prepare real good LOCI and start engaging with waitlist colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its tough OP. Two years ago, my kid applied to a lot of reaches (think Harvard, Yale, MIT, Duke, Williams, Amherst) and some targets (think UVA, Wake, Northeastern) and some safeties (we thought), such as JMU and Virginia Tech. He didn't get into any of the reaches, and two of the targets. Initially, he was pretty disappointed at the results, but he picked one of his targets after visiting both admitted student days and, so far, has had a terrific experience. I expect your kid will do the same. It is disappointing after all of the work they put in through HS that it is seeming "unrewarded" in the college admissions process. However, based on the experience of both my kids (the other one also didn't do well with the tippy top schools (other than Grinnell), the work they have done in HS will pay off once they are in college because their time management skills and their "smarts" will make college seem easier than it will be for many.

Except UVA and Northeastern are NOT targets for anyone. UVA hovers around 18-20% acceptance rates, so does Wake. NEU has been single digits during that time, so it's a reach for everyone.
That's the issues---if you don't define these categories accurately, your kid will be disappointed. Your kid didn't really have a target---they had mostly reaches.

I suppose in hindsight you may be right, though at the time both UVa and Northeastern seemed like targets for my kid (and in hindsight Virginia Tech was probably a target more than a safety): 3.98 GPA/4.53wGPA/35 ACT, full IB student at a NoVA public school (and ultimately an IB Diploma recipient), Eagle Scout, and 2-time captain of both HS and club sports teams. The Naviance chart showed a sea of green around his spot. I wonder whether in subsequent years his red "X" on the chart is alone, or whether more and more kids near him are now being rejected. I was shocked when he didn't get in to UVa, but it happened. Fortunately, it wasn't his first choice and, as I mentioned, he is super happy at Northeastern, which has been a great fit for him.

How can a school with SINGLE DIGIT acceptance rates "seem like target for your kid"? That means it's a crap shoot for everyone. They get 96K+ applicants. I suspect most of those are "highly qualified" students. It's a high reach for everyone. Glad your kid got in, but he got lucky and got into a reach. You did not pick a balanced list of Reach, target, safety, likelies.
75% of the kids applying to those schools have the same stats as your kid

Well, the year before he applied, the Northeastern acceptance rate was about 18%, so it was much closer to a target than it was his year (when acceptance rate dropped below 7%). So it felt like both UVa and NU were targets, with VT and JMU as safeties. And while there were plenty of kids with grades/scores like my kid, I think most of them who applied to NU got in. Based on the merit aid he got from NU, he didn't just squeeze into the class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC waitlisted at most of their reaches. Rejected at a couple. Def a top 10 percent student at a top DC private. Counselor's indication was that DC was competitive everywhere and had "as good a chance as any one else from this school" at Ivy. Feeling very disappointed/stressed. Realize that WL has zero chance of moving. Sorry to vent.

This was us last year and it included WL to most matches as well - unhooked high stats kids at top DC private have slim chances.

Hope your DC did a good job at choosing matches/safeties they would be happy at.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC waitlisted at most of their reaches. Rejected at a couple. Def a top 10 percent student at a top DC private. Counselor's indication was that DC was competitive everywhere and had "as good a chance as any one else from this school" at Ivy. Feeling very disappointed/stressed. Realize that WL has zero chance of moving. Sorry to vent.

WLs do move. This is where being at a top private is helpful. Write those LOCIs and get your CC going in reaching out to the schools. If nothing pans out tell your dc to put their head down Freshman year and then apply out as a transfer.

HA HA - that wouldn't be happening at our Big 3 (sad but true)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC waitlisted at most of their reaches. Rejected at a couple. Def a top 10 percent student at a top DC private. Counselor's indication was that DC was competitive everywhere and had "as good a chance as any one else from this school" at Ivy. Feeling very disappointed/stressed. Realize that WL has zero chance of moving. Sorry to vent.

1. It is well-known that only kids of alumni have a chance at Ivies and similar, when they come from top privates. This is because everyone has great stats at a top private! The difference is made on who your parents are, and since you're at a top private, a lot of parents will be Ivy alumnae.

2. When the counselor says "as good a chance as any one else from this school", it means "very low chance". Otherwise they would have said: "you have a BETTER chance than most people at this school". Logical reasoning!

3. Caveat to 2: don't put all your trust in any one counselor. There are things they can't say, like 1, and things they don't know in this changing landscape. You really need to do your own research and rely on no one but yourself.

Sorry for the tough love, but there way too many parents who think it's in the bag because they've paid the hefty tuition and someone else will do their thinking for them. No. Either you're super hands-on and own the process (with your kid), and are thus entitled to some expectations; or you're hands-off and accept whatever happens.

You have no idea what you're talking about. At the top 3-4 DC privates, you may have 10% of the class with a 3.9 and above. The Average GPA is roughly a 3.5. Now the average SAT is around 1500. So in that regard, everyone has top stats. But there are clear top academic kids. This is in contrast to public where everyone has an A average.

NP here - but don't let this fool you into believing you will have success at reaches if you have no hook. This will send you down a bad path... Unless you want to ED to Chicago (then you're set). Otherwise, be very thoughtful about an ED choice - don't waste that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC waitlisted at most of their reaches. Rejected at a couple. Def a top 10 percent student at a top DC private. Counselor's indication was that DC was competitive everywhere and had "as good a chance as any one else from this school" at Ivy. Feeling very disappointed/stressed. Realize that WL has zero chance of moving. Sorry to vent.

1. It is well-known that only kids of alumni have a chance at Ivies and similar, when they come from top privates. This is because everyone has great stats at a top private! The difference is made on who your parents are, and since you're at a top private, a lot of parents will be Ivy alumnae.

2. When the counselor says "as good a chance as any one else from this school", it means "very low chance". Otherwise they would have said: "you have a BETTER chance than most people at this school". Logical reasoning!

3. Caveat to 2: don't put all your trust in any one counselor. There are things they can't say, like 1, and things they don't know in this changing landscape. You really need to do your own research and rely on no one but yourself.

Sorry for the tough love, but there way too many parents who think it's in the bag because they've paid the hefty tuition and someone else will do their thinking for them. No. Either you're super hands-on and own the process (with your kid), and are thus entitled to some expectations; or you're hands-off and accept whatever happens.

You have no idea what you're talking about. At the top 3-4 DC privates, you may have 10% of the class with a 3.9 and above. The Average GPA is roughly a 3.5. Now the average SAT is around 1500. So in that regard, everyone has top stats. But there are clear top academic kids. This is in contrast to public where everyone has an A average.

You're wrong, because I know kids in public who fail or have Cs and Ds and an abysmal gpa. What I meant was that, in public AND in private, there are more high stats kids than there are Ivy seats (or similar highly selective colleges). The difference is that there are a lot more parents in privates who are alumnae of these colleges, than there are parents in public who are Ivy alumnae. Therefore, who do you think colleges are going to choose, given they have quotas? The top private school kids who ALSO have an alumni parent, or the top public school kids who ALSO created a non-profit, or is a Regeneron winner, or whatever.

This is how the game is played. Maybe there will come a time when no Ivy considers alumni relations. But until that day, if you're not an alumni yourself, and your kid is in a selective private high school, you should know your kid is probably not getting in. Unless he or she is the valedictorian. Remember that Harvard rejects more valedictorians than it accepts...

I think the legacy numbers for Princeton are around 30 kids or 2% of their admitted students.
So the kids aren't getting in because there is a lot of competition, not because of legacy admissions

(reference:https://www.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/documents/2024/03/ad-hoc-committee-undergraduate-admission-031424.pdf)

I find it hard to believe there are only 30 legacy Princeton kids. The tour guide we had was legacy. And the biggest head scratcher admit from our school was a legacy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of these posters weren't in the game this year. It was a mess. I'm so sorry OP. Hopefully your kid can get excited about the safeties. But it's ok to be disappointed.

It’s been like this for the past three cycles (since the adoption of test optional). You just weren’t paying attention.

Agreed! We tried to give everyone the heads up but everyone wants to believe their kid is different. From what I've seen - this year is just like last year. (rough for unhooked but otherwise very strong students)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC waitlisted at most of their reaches. Rejected at a couple. Def a top 10 percent student at a top DC private. Counselor's indication was that DC was competitive everywhere and had "as good a chance as any one else from this school" at Ivy. Feeling very disappointed/stressed. Realize that WL has zero chance of moving. Sorry to vent.

1. It is well-known that only kids of alumni have a chance at Ivies and similar, when they come from top privates. This is because everyone has great stats at a top private! The difference is made on who your parents are, and since you're at a top private, a lot of parents will be Ivy alumnae.

2. When the counselor says "as good a chance as any one else from this school", it means "very low chance". Otherwise they would have said: "you have a BETTER chance than most people at this school". Logical reasoning!

3. Caveat to 2: don't put all your trust in any one counselor. There are things they can't say, like 1, and things they don't know in this changing landscape. You really need to do your own research and rely on no one but yourself.

Sorry for the tough love, but there way too many parents who think it's in the bag because they've paid the hefty tuition and someone else will do their thinking for them. No. Either you're super hands-on and own the process (with your kid), and are thus entitled to some expectations; or you're hands-off and accept whatever happens.

You have no idea what you're talking about. At the top 3-4 DC privates, you may have 10% of the class with a 3.9 and above. The Average GPA is roughly a 3.5. Now the average SAT is around 1500. So in that regard, everyone has top stats. But there are clear top academic kids. This is in contrast to public where everyone has an A average.

You're wrong, because I know kids in public who fail or have Cs and Ds and an abysmal gpa. What I meant was that, in public AND in private, there are more high stats kids than there are Ivy seats (or similar highly selective colleges). The difference is that there are a lot more parents in privates who are alumnae of these colleges, than there are parents in public who are Ivy alumnae. Therefore, who do you think colleges are going to choose, given they have quotas? The top private school kids who ALSO have an alumni parent, or the top public school kids who ALSO created a non-profit, or is a Regeneron winner, or whatever.

This is how the game is played. Maybe there will come a time when no Ivy considers alumni relations. But until that day, if you're not an alumni yourself, and your kid is in a selective private high school, you should know your kid is probably not getting in. Unless he or she is the valedictorian. Remember that Harvard rejects more valedictorians than it accepts...

I think the legacy numbers for Princeton are around 30 kids or 2% of their admitted students.
So the kids aren't getting in because there is a lot of competition, not because of legacy admissions

(reference:https://www.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/documents/2024/03/ad-hoc-committee-undergraduate-admission-031424.pdf)

I find it hard to believe there are only 30 legacy Princeton kids. The tour guide we had was legacy. And the biggest head scratcher admit from our school was a legacy.

Only 30 benefitted from the legacy boost (being give a spot over equally qualified non-legacy students). Rest were allegedly in on their own merits.