Teacher and 2nd grader conflict - how to handle?

[Anonymous]

My daughter is and in 2nd grade in FCPS. I like our school.

My child's teachers, since kindergarten, have reported to me that there are problems with my child's work habits (and I have always tried to work with them to reinforce good habits at home). She's sloppy. She rushes. Terrible handwriting. She doesn't always listen to directions. She reminds me a lot of me when I was an elementary school kid. Bright enough to get by with good grades without really trying. Lazy, but academically does well. (Interestingly, that hasn't proved to be a problem in my later life and career.... but back to my kid....)

I knew my child had made an impression on the teacher when, at back to school night, the anecdote the teacher told the full class of parents about an anonymous student, was about my kid. The teacher is unhappy about my daughter's work habits and is coming down on her pretty hard. At first I thought maybe that was a good thing. Obviously I want my child to do well, and to do better than her parents did - who doesn't want that? But I am starting to see my child's self confidence and enthusiasm for school wane. She has always loved learning. Now she's starting to not want to go to school She thinks the teacher doesn't like her. She thinks the teacher comes down harder on her for the same offenses compared to other kids (and the examples she gives me seem to indicate she might be right.) She feels like she is always in trouble, deserved or not.

Well today, a new chapter in the saga - my child is apparently afraid to ask the teacher for permission to go to the bathroom outside of designated bathroom breaks, because she doesn't want to get the teacher mad. Today, for the first time since she was three years old, she peed herself as she left the classroom and arrived at her after school program, before she could reach the toilet. I can only image how humiliated she must have felt in front of all these kids in the program, ages k - 6th....

So the first thing I am going to do is tell the teacher, the kid has got to be able to pee when she needs to, whether it's on the class schedule or not. My second thought is to nicely tell the teacher I think we need to back of a little bit on the intense focus on my child's work habits. For example, my child gets a spelling word marked wrong if she reverses a letter. If she writes a "b" or "d" backwards. Even though she knows how to spell the word, if she writes the letter wrong, she gets the word wrong.... This is a small example, but my daughter's whole school day seems to be about small transgressions.

I wanted some other opinions. How would you handle this? Thanks.

[Anonymous]

First, this happened to my child in the Fourth Grade, the accident, and it's very upsetting to all involved, child and parent. I'm so sorry.
Did the teacher call? We heard from the school.
I'd reach out to the teacher and try to form a team approach to school. I'd explain the entire situation.

How much experience does the teacher have?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First, this happened to my child in the Fourth Grade, the accident, and it's very upsetting to all involved, child and parent. I'm so sorry.
Did the teacher call? We heard from the school.
I'd reach out to the teacher and try to form a team approach to school. I'd explain the entire situation.

How much experience does the teacher have?

She is experienced in a lower grade. This is her first year in 2nd grade.

[Anonymous]

OP, you need to schedule a conference with the teacher and the principal NOW. This is not okay. Your daughter's in 2nd grade and regardless of how "sloppy" her work habits are, she's just a second grader! What you describe sounds awful. Teachers ought to have the skills to handle children with a wide range of learning styles and skill levels without terrorizing small children and rendering them so miserable that they hate school. Seriously, raise hell. Tell the teacher that he/she needs to find ways to create positive incentives for change, not "come down hard" on little kids. Don't be apologetic or defensive. What you're describing is bad teaching, and your child, scatterbrained or not, deserves better.

We had this issue with one of our children in 2nd grade as well, and it took me much too long to really raise hell. When I finally did-- and took to the administration a dozen examples, very similar to the ones you give above, of the teacher being too impatient, critical, and brusque-- the school administrators were actually pretty upset themselves. They agreed that this kind of thing is not healthy or appropriate: especially in the early grades, children learn best with positive reinforcement, not harsh criticism/punishments. They counseled the teacher and things actually did get better. I only felt bad that I had waited so long to speak out, hoping/assuming the the teacher knew what he was doing.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is and in 2nd grade in FCPS. I like our school.

My child's teachers, since kindergarten, have reported to me that there are problems with my child's work habits (and I have always tried to work with them to reinforce good habits at home). She's sloppy. She rushes. Terrible handwriting. She doesn't always listen to directions. She reminds me a lot of me when I was an elementary school kid. Bright enough to get by with good grades without really trying. Lazy, but academically does well. (Interestingly, that hasn't proved to be a problem in my later life and career.... but back to my kid....)

Sloppy handwriting... rushes... doesn't wait to listen to directions, impulsive?

Sounds like she might not be "lazy" at all but might be dealing with some other issues -- ADHD? executive function disorder?

I'm not trying to "label" her in any way or encourage you to rush to give her a "label" -- but if she were just lazy, unmotivated, and not caring what otehrs thought o fher, her teacher coming down hard on her wouldn't bother her so much. She probably wants to do well, but something is wrong and she can't.

[Anonymous]

OP, you might not want to go in like a bull in a china shop, which is the impression I get from your post and the advice you are getting. You are getting information from you daughter. The information is her perception of the situation and may or may not be on target. You also have observations about how her perceptions about school are affecting her ability to function in the school environment and to learn. The situation needs to be fixed, but you aren't going to accomplish much or at least not much very quickly if you go in with guns a blazing.

Definitely schedule a meeting with the teacher ASAP - and not the principal. Don't go over a teacher's head to his/her boss until you really understand what is going on and have gotten no positive response from the teacher or unless the situation is global involving more than one class. Tell the teacher what your daughter is saying, what you perceive about the change in her desire to learn, her fear to make the teacher mad by going to the bathroom outside normal bathroom hours and everything else that you see and hear from your child. Then listen and discuss your thoughts on what is causing the problems and how you and the teacher can work together to make the situation better. Most teachers want your child to be successful in school and will do what they can to make it happen.

One of the things about second grade is that by that time, the kids are expected to have some pretty good work habits and behaviors. If your daughter is having difficulty with this, maybe she needs some support, which is something else to talk about during your meeting.

Finally, as 23:44 suggested, listen to what you hear and try to tease out whether your daughter is within the normal ranges of attention, classroom behavior, impulsiveness, etc. If what you hear seems to indicate that she is not, you may need to think about evaluations for her. Even though you had these behaviors as a child doesn't make them normal (and may even predispose your daughter to problems because things like ADHD are thought to have a hereditary component). Also, sounds like while you had some of these issues, your daughter's might be worse since she is becoming dysfunctional in school.

[Anonymous]

OP, we have had similar issues with my daughter for the last couple of years, with different teachers. She's now in 4th grade and has a diagnosis of dyslexia and is about to be diagnosed, we suspect, with ADHD.

This is NOT to excuse the teacher's bad handling of things, which sounds like she's inexperienced/unprofessional. We've had similar issues with teachers, who just can't seem to understand that sometimes kids behave like this because they can't help it.

However, I would just keep this in the back of your mind and don't hesitate to get her tested if things don't improve.

[Anonymous]

OP -- 00:06's comments are really good.

I'd add -- when you go in to talk with te teacher, ask her if she thinks it is within your daughter's ability to write her letters the correct way? Because when you daughter transposes her letters she gets points taken off her spelling test. Is that helping to motivate her to remember to write the letters the correct way? Apparently not. So your daughter's problem might not be lack of motivation, lack of trying to write the letters the right way -- she might actually be having trouble remembering which way they should go.

The teacher needs to find kind, helpful ways for your child to remember how the letters should be written. At this age, it might be she needs a reminder strip of frequently miswritten letters at the top of her desk. Say she still transposes d, b, p and q. So ask if the teacher can place a card with a picture of a duck and a letter d, a pig and a letter p, etc. so your child can look at them while she is writing to remember which way they go.

[Anonymous]

Op here, thank you all for the advice. I called the teacher this am and I tried to be really, really nice about it. I told her about the pee thing and asked if we could please let my child pee as needed. (Also took child to pediatrician last night to check for a UTI - all clear. Doctor wrote a note saying child should be allowed to pee as needed - hopefully I won't have to pull out the note if the teacher responds to my request).

So this is the teacher's take:

1) child does not pee when the rest of the class goes on break
2) child wants to pee every 30 minutes
3) she does not think the letter reversing thing is dyslexia but laziness/rushing

I explained that my concern is, I am seeing some behaviors that I have not seen before. My child hasn't peed her pants since before she turned three. She's afraid to ask the teacher if she can go. She's becoming nervous about going to school. I asked if we could back off a little on focusing on my child's work habits. The teacher responded, "some things aren't a choice".

So overall the feeling I got was, teacher is defensive. I also just think maybe she doesn't like my kid. I understand that not all personalities fit together and that hey, it happens (not liking a kid). I am going to meet with the teacher in person. If things don't improve, I will bring in the principal and then, ask to switch classes. I don't want my child to decide 1) she doesn't like school 2) she's a "bad" student 3) teachers don't like HER. I think at this stage it's important to keep an enthusiasm for learning, which my child has. She's a bookworm and does well on her tests etc. She's just sloppy.

I do wonder about ADHD - her last teacher told me she does NOT think this is an issue. But maybe I should get it checked. Child's father thinks he has this (undiagnosed).

I realize there is a danger in over-identifying with your own child. But this reminds me so much of my experience in school. I was SO much the same way. I didn't HAVE to work hard so I chose not to. I am not sure how you make someone WANT to work hard. As I mentioned though, this has not been a problem in my later life so, I turned out OK - wondering how important it is to break my child's spirit this way to make her slow down and write neatly..... I mean in this day and age of computers, it's not like it was when the nuns tortured us to have perfect penmanship....

Thanks for listening. I really appreciate all your input. Thank you!

[Anonymous]

Did you tell the teacher that you are getting the feeling that she doesn't like your child? Did you tell her that you are worried that she has already been labeled a problem-child?

Honestly, I think that it is time to bring in the principal. Your instincts are right. I really dislike the fact that the teacher is labeling your child as "lazy" She seems to have already made up her mind about your kid, and I think that your sense that she has a personal dislike of your child may be spot on. The anecdote in your OP about telling a story about your child to all of the parents speaks volumes. ADHD or not, your kid deserves better.

[Anonymous]

OP,

Can you have her tested? The peeing every 30 minutes might be an attentional coping mechanism. Also, did you get into your daughter's anxiety, does she have strategies for that, did she mention anything positive? What are her strategies to address the rushing? Also, where is your daughter in terms of the class? She can't be the only one writing D backwards!

9:42 It is tricky to be explicit about these things. If I were OP -- and I have been in her shoes -- I would work around them instead of saying outright what you think is going on. Ask the teacher what her strategies are. Discuss the student's anxieties. Ask what you can do at home to work on rush, etc.

OP, where is your daughter's birthday in relation to the rest of her class?

What is your next step? I think it's time to meet with the principal or the school counselor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did you tell the teacher that you are getting the feeling that she doesn't like your child? Did you tell her that you are worried that she has already been labeled a problem-child?

Honestly, I think that it is time to bring in the principal. Your instincts are right. I really dislike the fact that the teacher is labeling your child as "lazy" She seems to have already made up her mind about your kid, and I think that your sense that she has a personal dislike of your child may be spot on. The anecdote in your OP about telling a story about your child to all of the parents speaks volumes. ADHD or not, your kid deserves better.

I would have a meeting with the school principal. The teacher was NOT responsive. I think that her class should be switched. The fit is not healthy for your child. I may be wrong and it would be best to post in SN maybe, but can't your school be required to conduct an evaluation for ADD or learning disabilities? Of course a private eval is always a possibility too. I would want my child out of there. We've had bumps in the road occasionally with each of our kids and we have always had teachers who wanted to listen and who adjusted THEIR behavior in response to our info. Your DD's teacher did the opposite. Get her out of there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP,

Can you have her tested? The peeing every 30 minutes might be an attentional coping mechanism. Also, did you get into your daughter's anxiety, does she have strategies for that, did she mention anything positive? What are her strategies to address the rushing? Also, where is your daughter in terms of the class? She can't be the only one writing D backwards!

9:42 It is tricky to be explicit about these things. If I were OP -- and I have been in her shoes -- I would work around them instead of saying outright what you think is going on. Ask the teacher what her strategies are. Discuss the student's anxieties. Ask what you can do at home to work on rush, etc.

OP, where is your daughter's birthday in relation to the rest of her class?

What is your next step? I think it's time to meet with the principal or the school counselor.

Thanks, I have a call into a testing center and, next step is an in person meeting with the teachere to reiterate what I've already said. If I can get results directly with her, I won't bring out the big guns. Just like I'd like a chance to respond to my coworkers before they go over my head to my boss...

I don't know about the birthdays. My daughter is a June birthday, which doesn't seem out of the norm to me. The teacher told me that letter reversal should be clearing up by this point. I am not sure she used the word "lazy"; she might have used rushing. Lazy is what I am reading between the lines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did you tell the teacher that you are getting the feeling that she doesn't like your child? Did you tell her that you are worried that she has already been labeled a problem-child?

Good questions. But no, I didn't, because I think that would make her more defensive and, she will deny it. Even in her own heart, she might deny it. Who wants to admit they are capable of being mean to a 7 yo just because they don't like her? Not many people I know.... esp. not a person who makes her living dealing with little kids....l

[Anonymous]

The time to be nice is over. Be direct. Tell the teacher. "I can tell by your actions that you don't like my child. That's fine, you don't need to "like" every child but you do need to be fair and provide a good education. From now on, do not call my child lazy. Its not appropriate and its basically name calling. Further, I am comfortable with my child's work habits as they are. Do not correct them during class UNLESS you can prove they are disruptive to the other students or to the teaching of the class (poor handwritting after all doesn't effect the other students)" Put your request in writting and follow up.