Redshirted and Regretted It?

[Anonymous]

One interesting side note: In clicking around, I noticed that several states have compulsory start laws for kindergarten. I saw references to compulsory start dates in OH, IL, SC, NC, NY, and CA. Most that I saw require kids to begin K by age 6, or 1st grade by age 7. I am not interested enough to do a full-scale search for a summary of different state laws, but it appears that MD has a similar rule (http://www.marylandpublicschools.org/MSDE/nonpublicschools/npdocs/fact_sheets/np_fact_kindergarten_attendance.htm).

This does not really address the debate on DCUM over whether kids should pushed to start at "normal" ages, or instead held back until the latest possible start date allowed by state law. However, it might allay the fears of some parents that we soon will have 9-year-olds in their daughter's first grade class.

[Anonymous]

Correction -- I did find a link with the compulsory school requirements for each state:

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d04/tables/dt04_148.asp
http://www.homeedmag.com/lawregs/arkansas.html

[Anonymous]

There is PLENTY of research which either shows no statistical significance between redshirted and non-redshirted children (ie: no benefit to redshirting) or studies which have shown disadvantages to doing so. See the literature review "Opportunity Deferred or Opportunity Taken: An Updated Look at Delaying Kindergarten Entry" by Hermine Marshall. Also, see work by researchers Graue and Diperna. Also a recent Univ. of Rochester Medical School study which reported that children who started school later had significantly more behavioral problems as adolescents.

To be fair, there have been studies that have shown disparaties in ability between the oldest and youngest students, but that these differences disappear by 3rd grade. Also, it seems that the only study (article) that people reference beyond those showing these early differences in ability prior to 3rd grade is that New York Times artice.

My son is at a big 3 too. There are definitely young boys with summer bdays there. Its just not honest to say that the AD's at these schools tell everyone with summer birthdays to wait a year. Redshirted boys at our school at least, either had an issue that was cause for concern, or the parents wanted to give their son an imagined advantage over others, and couldn't handle the thought of their boy being the youngest.

And one last point- redshirting is redshirting. Its holding someone back a year in school who otherwise makes the age cut-off. I don't buy the argument that the June-August bdays somehow need to be excused from this. Following the logic of that argument, the school cut-off really becomes May 31st. And if that is so, what is the difference between redshirting the March-May kids if the oldest kids are now those with bdays of June 1st and beyond. At some point this has got to end. Parents should be looking for other ways to intervene if there is a behavioral, social, or academic problem than just waiting a year and hoping the problem fixes itself. Parents should also rememeber that they may, as Hermine Marshall points out, "be depriving the child of important opportunities for learning."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is PLENTY of research which either shows no statistical significance between redshirted and non-redshirted children (ie: no benefit to redshirting) or studies which have shown disadvantages to doing so. See the literature review "Opportunity Deferred or Opportunity Taken: An Updated Look at Delaying Kindergarten Entry" by Hermine Marshall. Also, see work by researchers Graue and Diperna. Also a recent Univ. of Rochester Medical School study which reported that children who started school later had significantly more behavioral problems as adolescents.

To be fair, there have been studies that have shown disparaties in ability between the oldest and youngest students, but that these differences disappear by 3rd grade. Also, it seems that the only study (article) that people reference beyond those showing these early differences in ability prior to 3rd grade is that New York Times artice.

My son is at a big 3 too. There are definitely young boys with summer bdays there. Its just not honest to say that the AD's at these schools tell everyone with summer birthdays to wait a year. Redshirted boys at our school at least, either had an issue that was cause for concern, or the parents wanted to give their son an imagined advantage over others, and couldn't handle the thought of their boy being the youngest.

And one last point- redshirting is redshirting. Its holding someone back a year in school who otherwise makes the age cut-off. I don't buy the argument that the June-August bdays somehow need to be excused from this. Following the logic of that argument, the school cut-off really becomes May 31st. And if that is so, what is the difference between redshirting the March-May kids if the oldest kids are now those with bdays of June 1st and beyond. At some point this has got to end. Parents should be looking for other ways to intervene if there is a behavioral, social, or academic problem than just waiting a year and hoping the problem fixes itself. Parents should also rememeber that they may, as Hermine Marshall points out, "be depriving the child of important opportunities for learning."

Well, looks like we're now back to square one, with little consensus on this board on this issue.

I guess I'll just have to find comfort in the fact that right now... my position wins. I, as a parent, have a choice on whether or not to redshirt my summer birthday child... and there is nothing you can do about it

I'll also take comfort in the fact that, per the OP's questions, VERY, VERY FEW parents seem to regret a decision to redshirt when its in the best interests of the child.

So - keep griping away and spending your time pouting about the decisions of other parents. Won't do you a lot of good. I for one am signing off of this debate for good b/c my position seems to be the one that's accepted by the top teachers and administrators at the top schools. So HA...

[Anonymous]

Boy, I hope you are not a parent my my children's school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Boy, I hope you are not a parent my my children's school.

I assure you, the feeling is mutual. Bye.

[Anonymous]

Administrators at top schools want to win athletic contests. Parents want their kids to make varsity as freshman or sophomores. It has nothing to do with academics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is PLENTY of research which either shows no statistical significance between redshirted and non-redshirted children (ie: no benefit to redshirting) or studies which have shown disadvantages to doing so. See the literature review "Opportunity Deferred or Opportunity Taken: An Updated Look at Delaying Kindergarten Entry" by Hermine Marshall. Also, see work by researchers Graue and Diperna. Also a recent Univ. of Rochester Medical School study which reported that children who started school later had significantly more behavioral problems as adolescents.

To be fair, there have been studies that have shown disparaties in ability between the oldest and youngest students, but that these differences disappear by 3rd grade. Also, it seems that the only study (article) that people reference beyond those showing these early differences in ability prior to 3rd grade is that New York Times artice.

My son is at a big 3 too. There are definitely young boys with summer bdays there. Its just not honest to say that the AD's at these schools tell everyone with summer birthdays to wait a year. Redshirted boys at our school at least, either had an issue that was cause for concern, or the parents wanted to give their son an imagined advantage over others, and couldn't handle the thought of their boy being the youngest.

And one last point- redshirting is redshirting. Its holding someone back a year in school who otherwise makes the age cut-off. I don't buy the argument that the June-August bdays somehow need to be excused from this. Following the logic of that argument, the school cut-off really becomes May 31st. And if that is so, what is the difference between redshirting the March-May kids if the oldest kids are now those with bdays of June 1st and beyond. At some point this has got to end. Parents should be looking for other ways to intervene if there is a behavioral, social, or academic problem than just waiting a year and hoping the problem fixes itself. Parents should also rememeber that they may, as Hermine Marshall points out, "be depriving the child of important opportunities for learning."

Well, looks like we're now back to square one, with little consensus on this board on this issue.

I guess I'll just have to find comfort in the fact that right now... my position wins. I, as a parent, have a choice on whether or not to redshirt my summer birthday child... and there is nothing you can do about it

I'll also take comfort in the fact that, per the OP's questions, VERY, VERY FEW parents seem to regret a decision to redshirt when its in the best interests of the child.

So - keep griping away and spending your time pouting about the decisions of other parents. Won't do you a lot of good. I for one am signing off of this debate for good b/c my position seems to be the one that's accepted by the top teachers and administrators at the top schools. So HA...

Wow! I think this post just proves that the parents who redshirt are the ones who indulge - not just their spoiled little darlings but also themselves!

[Anonymous]

OK, for anyone actually interested in what the studies say, as opposed to just wanting to snipe or push a particular viewpoint, here is one last link. This is the Clearinghouse on Early Education and Parenting's page on redshirting, which has dozens of articles that describe both benefits and risks associated with redshirting: http://ceep.crc.uiuc.edu/poptopics/redshirting.html . It also provides a nice overview of the research and a list of considerations for parents faced with the tough decision.

For better or worse, I've now read a few dozen studies on redshirting, and anyone who claims that the research clearly supports one viewpoint over the other is full of crap.

[Anonymous]

WOW! Poster 14:44 has the maturity of a 2 year old. No wonder her DS needed to be redshirted. The apple really doesn't fall far from the tree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is PLENTY of research which either shows no statistical significance between redshirted and non-redshirted children (ie: no benefit to redshirting) or studies which have shown disadvantages to doing so. See the literature review "Opportunity Deferred or Opportunity Taken: An Updated Look at Delaying Kindergarten Entry" by Hermine Marshall. Also, see work by researchers Graue and Diperna. Also a recent Univ. of Rochester Medical School study which reported that children who started school later had significantly more behavioral problems as adolescents.

To be fair, there have been studies that have shown disparaties in ability between the oldest and youngest students, but that these differences disappear by 3rd grade. Also, it seems that the only study (article) that people reference beyond those showing these early differences in ability prior to 3rd grade is that New York Times artice.

My son is at a big 3 too. There are definitely young boys with summer bdays there. Its just not honest to say that the AD's at these schools tell everyone with summer birthdays to wait a year. Redshirted boys at our school at least, either had an issue that was cause for concern, or the parents wanted to give their son an imagined advantage over others, and couldn't handle the thought of their boy being the youngest.

And one last point- redshirting is redshirting. Its holding someone back a year in school who otherwise makes the age cut-off. I don't buy the argument that the June-August bdays somehow need to be excused from this. Following the logic of that argument, the school cut-off really becomes May 31st. And if that is so, what is the difference between redshirting the March-May kids if the oldest kids are now those with bdays of June 1st and beyond. At some point this has got to end. Parents should be looking for other ways to intervene if there is a behavioral, social, or academic problem than just waiting a year and hoping the problem fixes itself. Parents should also rememeber that they may, as Hermine Marshall points out, "be depriving the child of important opportunities for learning."

Well, looks like we're now back to square one, with little consensus on this board on this issue.

I guess I'll just have to find comfort in the fact that right now... my position wins. I, as a parent, have a choice on whether or not to redshirt my summer birthday child... and there is nothing you can do about it

I'll also take comfort in the fact that, per the OP's questions, VERY, VERY FEW parents seem to regret a decision to redshirt when its in the best interests of the child.

So - keep griping away and spending your time pouting about the decisions of other parents. Won't do you a lot of good. I for one am signing off of this debate for good b/c my position seems to be the one that's accepted by the top teachers and administrators at the top schools. So HA...

Your assumption that you're doing the right thing because "very very few parents seem to regret the decision" is wrong. This is an anonymous forum where parents are not likely to post negative comments, especially when they believe they may have made a mistake with their child's education.

If you really wanted the "best" edcuation for your child, you'd be looking at homeschooling. But judging from your comments and tone, you're more likely to be concerned in feeding your own ego than anything to do with your child. Grow the F up.

[Anonymous]

I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings, but, for me, I'd be afraid that my son (with a summer birthday) would feel "less than" if I redshirted him. My BIL was held back as a very young child and, although I would not have assumed this w/o knowing it, he has cited this as a reason for a lot of his esteem problems. My poor MIL--I feel for her--I know she only did what she thought was best--but he seems to hang on this. (He has other issues, so this may indeed be BS.) Anyway, not that this is necessarily affecting my decision, but I will not be redshirting my son. I really admire the moms who posted honestly here about their experiences with regretting this. I'm sure it's difficult, but your sons already no doubt know that their parents think hard about what is best for them and love them dearly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:WOW! Poster 14:44 has the maturity of a 2 year old. No wonder her DS needed to be redshirted. The apple really doesn't fall far from the tree.

Nothing like calling out the 14:44 poster and then immediately following it up with your own schoolyard level insult.

While I disagree with 14:44's "in your face" style - I do understand her frustration. There are some pretty ugly things being said on this board by the "anti-redshirt" camp. One poster said that "if your son was smart you'd get admitted", another said that "your son will have confidence issues for being held back", etc.

There's plenty of room for a reasonable debate on this issue... but I believe the "anti" crowd has impugned their credibility by throwing around some very gross generalizations and personal insults directed at the children of parents on this forum.

A fair question to the "anti" crowd is... why are you so passionate about this issue??

If you answer that you want it to be fair for all kids... then I'd simply suggest you look to public school where strict age limits are enforced. Besides, as a PP pointed out, if you're sending your kid to a $25k-$30k per year private school you really don't have much of a leg to stand on to talk about "educational fairness and equality for all" as if that was really your concern you'd send your kid to public and donate the $30k to that school to help improve it.

So, that really leaves that you are interested in making sure some other kid does not have an advantage over your kid. That can be a fair position to take when parents are choosing to hold back a child born in Oct in order to give them an academic or athletic advantage - but I don't think that's a fair position when a parent holds back a summer birthday child because they (and in many cases the school) think the child could benefit from some more development before joining a top private school curriculum. The parent and school will know what the right/best decision is for the child in this case... not a strict "public policy" (leave that to the public schools).

I'd be interested to hear what people's justifications are for having such strong opinions on this issue.

[Anonymous]

I have strong opinions because I see firsthand how this manifests itself in grades where my children (not the youngest or oldest) attend school.

I see nothing redeeming about having such a large age spread in a class. Unless it is a preemie kind of situation where the birthday and "real" age are disparate, I see no reason to cause the kind of distraction in the classroom that this issue needlessly (except for what I perceive to be selfish reasons) causes.

[Anonymous]

I second the PP's comments. At times it seems as though proponents of redshirting feel as though they are making a decision for their child in a vacuum. They selfishly act as though the rest of the parent body should just step aside as they do what's "right" for their child, without any ownership over how this affects the other children in their child's community (ie: classroom). And then to have the audacity to ask others who do not support redshirting to justify their position....it leaves me mystified. My children are neither old nor young for their classes, but having children in the class who should in theory not be there due to their ages, does nothing helpful for the teacher or overall classroom dynamics. And one further point-- proponents of redshirting should not ask all other parents to "butt out" of their decision-making process for their own children, but then turn around and ask those who are against redshirting to justify their views.