Question About DCPS And Elementary School Ratings

[Anonymous]

On another thread, someone posted a link to the School Chooser from http://www.fightforchildren.org/pdf/GreatSchools_DCChooser-EngBook.pdf, and I was looking at the local elementary school Maury ES. This school's got a great local reputation and many of my neighbors are sending or planning on sending their kids. But the school profile referenced in the School Chooser looks pretty bad. It says the Math scores for DC-CAS were 30.36% for Math, and 46.43% for Reading, and that the "Trend" was downward (whatever that means).

Can anyone speak (intelligently) to the general dynamic of a school like Maury? Why are scores so low here? And why the two-star rating? Even Brent, which hass a super reputation on the Hill has only three stars and pretty low CAS scores.

I'm not trying to start a flame war: just looking for a little context to explain the numbers.

Thanks!

[Anonymous]

In those 2 schools, the majority of the poverty is isolated in the testing grades.

Not as much with Maury, but Brent it's pretty profound. According to the OSSE website, not a single white child took the DC-CAS at Brent last year and the poverty rate of the tested students was 59%.

Anyone out there please feel free to correct me, but I gather the overall poverty rate at Brent is much, much lower than this?

In short, I think they are probably both pretty good schools. Parents seem to be extremely happy with Brent, based on what I've heard and I hear plenty of great things at Maury.

Of course this begs the larger questions, how hard is it to educate low income children? According to the Chancellor, all it takes is a rock-star teacher.

Brent and Maury seem to indicate that there may be some other factors in student success that lead to higher test scores.

It will be interesting to see Maury and Brent's DCCAS scores this year. Will they rise? If not, will their principals be fired? If not, why not?

Any news on how Brent and Maury did this year on the CAS?

In the meantime OP, I suggest going to the OSSE website and looking at the test data grade by grade. It can be illuminating.

[Anonymous]

OP, I don't know. I wonder similar things. I live in Brookland and am looking at public schools for next year. I know very few people who send people to neighborhood schools. It's all OOB or charter, for the most part, among people I know (with a small number doing private). Yet, when I look at the scores for Noyes Education Campus (in southern Brookland), the scores look very good: Reading - 85%, Math - 64% and trending upward every year. I don't know anyone who sends their kids there, and it's almost all African American. Brent in contrast has scores of Reading - 39% Math - 64% yet it has a great rep. What gives?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In those 2 schools, the majority of the poverty is isolated in the testing grades.

Not as much with Maury, but Brent it's pretty profound. According to the OSSE website, not a single white child took the DC-CAS at Brent last year and the poverty rate of the tested students was 59%.

Anyone out there please feel free to correct me, but I gather the overall poverty rate at Brent is much, much lower than this?

In short, I think they are probably both pretty good schools. Parents seem to be extremely happy with Brent, based on what I've heard and I hear plenty of great things at Maury.

Of course this begs the larger questions, how hard is it to educate low income children? According to the Chancellor, all it takes is a rock-star teacher.

Brent and Maury seem to indicate that there may be some other factors in student success that lead to higher test scores.

It will be interesting to see Maury and Brent's DCCAS scores this year. Will they rise? If not, will their principals be fired? If not, why not?

Any news on how Brent and Maury did this year on the CAS?

In the meantime OP, I suggest going to the OSSE website and looking at the test data grade by grade. It can be illuminating.

Why are the white kids not tested? Is it because they are in the lower grades (pre-test)? I am also curious about this issue as our zoned school is Maury. I am all for public education, but not at the expense of my son. We just moved, so we missed the lottery and decided to enroll him in Appletree got 1 or 2 years. However, the issue of where he will go for K and on is still an issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are the white kids not tested? Is it because they are in the lower grades (pre-test)? I am also curious about this issue as our zoned school is Maury. I am all for public education, but not at the expense of my son. We just moved, so we missed the lottery and decided to enroll him in Appletree got 1 or 2 years. However, the issue of where he will go for K and on is still an issue.

http://www.nclb.osse.dc.gov/reportcardbygrade.asp

[Anonymous]

Sorry go here: http://www.nclb.osse.dc.gov/

And choose 2009, "Report Card", etc... You can see the breakdowns by grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are the white kids not tested? Is it because they are in the lower grades (pre-test)? I am also curious about this issue as our zoned school is Maury. I am all for public education, but not at the expense of my son. We just moved, so we missed the lottery and decided to enroll him in Appletree got 1 or 2 years. However, the issue of where he will go for K and on is still an issue.

http://www.nclb.osse.dc.gov/reportcardbygrade.asp

Thanks--that answered my question.

[Anonymous]

There is an enormous difference between the socio-economics of the children attending preschool and kindergarten vs 1st-5th grade at Maury.

While lots of well-educated, relatively well-off parents feel perfectly happy sending their kids to the preschool programs at Maury, which seem to be fairly high quality, most will likely pull their kids out and send to private schools as soon as they hit 1st grade.

The result is that the pool of kids left after K have a very different set of needs, backgrounds and parental support than the pool of kids in preschool. This difference in need is reflected in the test scores.

[Anonymous]

While lots of well-educated, relatively well-off parents feel perfectly happy sending their kids to the preschool programs at Maury, which seem to be fairly high quality, most will likely pull their kids out and send to private schools as soon as they hit 1st grade.

Interesting. Is this pure speculation based on historical trends, or is that "likely" based on actual conversations with Maury parents? Why would they pull their kids out as soon as they hit 1st grade when the in-boundary demographics are pretty affluent these days?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

While lots of well-educated, relatively well-off parents feel perfectly happy sending their kids to the preschool programs at Maury, which seem to be fairly high quality, most will likely pull their kids out and send to private schools as soon as they hit 1st grade.

Interesting. Is this pure speculation based on historical trends, or is that "likely" based on actual conversations with Maury parents? Why would they pull their kids out as soon as they hit 1st grade when the in-boundary demographics are pretty affluent these days?

Often situations like this are a matter of critical mass. Nobody wants to be first. What you want is for the families with children 2,3,4,5 years ahead of you to take the leap and pave the way. But of course, that's what they want(ed) too. It's depressing to watch your class fall apart as families leave for brighter horizons. If enough of the well-off and middle-class families leave, you don't want to be the last one left behind as it feels like the appeal of the class is shrinking, the level of teaching will be falling, and many of your child's friends are gone.

[Anonymous]

This has been the pattern at the Capitol Hill Cluster school for years. Is there any sense that it is changing at Hill schools like Brent and Maury? Are Hill families more likely to stay with their schools today?

[Anonymous]

18:20 poster here again.

To answer the question about whether it's speculation or based on actual conversation...I am a Maury parent. This is based on personal observation and discussion with the principal and current parents.

20:26 poster is exactly right.

The very, very sad truth is that, as much as you would like to support public education, and as much as you would like to see poorly performing DCPS improve, it's awfullly tough to operationalize that principle when it means making your own child the guinea pig in the big experiment that DCPS is...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I don't know. I wonder similar things. I live in Brookland and am looking at public schools for next year. I know very few people who send people to neighborhood schools. It's all OOB or charter, for the most part, among people I know (with a small number doing private). Yet, when I look at the scores for Noyes Education Campus (in southern Brookland), the scores look very good: Reading - 85%, Math - 64% and trending upward every year. I don't know anyone who sends their kids there, and it's almost all African American. Brent in contrast has scores of Reading - 39% Math - 64% yet it has a great rep. What gives?

Because in the final analysis, it isn't really about test scores. It's about the identity of the school. Noyes is perceived to be a black school. No matter how good the test scores at Noyes would be, most Caucasians wouldn't even think about sending their kids there.

[Anonymous]

Don't mean to pour gas on the flames but I think it also has to do with people who live in Brookland (lovely neighhborhood) vs. Capitol Hill (adults heavily invested in living in the neighborhood as part of their identity). In my experience knowing several families that lived in both places, families in Brookland were more likely to head to NW, Arlington or Silver Spring before kids were school age vs. families on the Hill really didn't want to give up a certain lifestyle and more desperately wanted to make it work. It also shows how much "reputation" has to do with boosterism vs. actual data.

[Anonymous]

If enough of the well-off and middle-class families leave, you don't want to be the last one left behind as it feels like the appeal of the class is shrinking, the level of teaching will be falling, and many of your child's friends are gone.

This is curious; why would the quality of the teachers be diminished if the middle-class families leave? Do they pack the good teachers in their duffles as they head off to greener pastures?