Tim Carney in the Post: The Ideal Number of Kids is Four (at a minimum)

[Anonymous]

It’s weird to assume that everyone is the same, with same circumstances, wishes, dreams, priorities, and even options. I assume Tim carney did not get pregnant and give birth to 4 kids. And to those who happy with 4 or more, good for you, this doesn’t mean we should (or are even able to) all have 4.

[Anonymous]

We have six in a mixed family and I have always been very firm that the oldest won't raise the younger ones. If we ask them to babysit we pay them and they are free to say no thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But how does the 12 yr old feel about it?

great - she's happy as a clam and is often offering to help even when I don't need it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mom of five here. It is 100 percent easier to have 5 kids than 3. I found 3 the absolute hardest. Now my older kids entertain and help with the younger kids. The year my third was born was the least happy year of my life. I am now the happiest I have ever been since becoming a mom with my fifth almost turning one. I am way more relaxed and it is 100 percent true that older kids help so much. For example on Saturday mornings I will wake up and my 12 year old has changed my toddler's diaper, turned on his cartoon, and gotten him a bowl of cheerios while I lounge in bed with DH.

What I am looking forward to is parents of 2-3 kids trying to explain why those of us with 4+ don't actually know what we are talking about when we say it's easier and we are happier than you all.

It’s definitely easier to “parent” when you’re exploiting your older kids.

+1 how sad for the older kid.

My sister, who is the oldest of 4, had to do all that for me and my sibling because both my parents worked. I feel awful that she had to grow up so quickly and had adult responsibilities thrown at her when she was so young.

IMO it's irresponsible to have so many kids if you yourself cannot parent and expect your kids to do it for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mom of five here. It is 100 percent easier to have 5 kids than 3. I found 3 the absolute hardest. Now my older kids entertain and help with the younger kids. The year my third was born was the least happy year of my life. I am now the happiest I have ever been since becoming a mom with my fifth almost turning one. I am way more relaxed and it is 100 percent true that older kids help so much. For example on Saturday mornings I will wake up and my 12 year old has changed my toddler's diaper, turned on his cartoon, and gotten him a bowl of cheerios while I lounge in bed with DH.

What I am looking forward to is parents of 2-3 kids trying to explain why those of us with 4+ don't actually know what we are talking about when we say it's easier and we are happier than you all.

Of course parenting is easier if you check out and dgaf. Not really a flex, but at least 30% self-aware, and that's got to count for . . . something.

sorry you don't get to relax saturday mornings?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have to have a DCUM thread on this one, even though we all know how it's going to go. I think it might be legally required. Anyway, here's the opinion piece from Tim Carney of the American Enterprise Institute, about how having four or more kids is actually ideal and easier for parents and better for kids: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/04/30/family-size-big-families/

Key points for people to jump all over:

- Carney claims raising 4+ kids is easier than raising fewer because his older kids do a lot of the parenting

- Carney cites some stats about how kids who get more intensive parenting (he assumes only kids and kids with just one sibling get more intensive parenting as a rule) are more anxious and unhappy

- He also cites a study that claims the happiness of mothers, specifically, declines with each subsequent child up until 3 (these moms are the least happy, according to the study) but then mothers of 4 are happier than all the others. He argues this is because of the efficiency of older kids helping with parenting and a gaggle of kids being able to entertain each other, and also that having more kids forces parents to do less because they can't do intensive parenting with that many kids

And some stuff Carney does not address:

- The financial costs of raising kids

- The impact on mothers' financial well being and career prospects

- Whether more kids ever results in neglect

- How special needs kids or other unexpected family stressors might play into this dynamic

Have at it, folks.

I want to talk to the woman who actually birthed these children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But how does the 12 yr old feel about it?

great - she's happy as a clam and is often offering to help even when I don't need it.

You won't know she is happy as a clam until she grows up. She might be an extreme people pleaser.

[Anonymous]

My mom, an engineer with 3 kids, always said wistfully that she thought with 4 or more you'd start to hit economies of scale.

But we all have our limits. For my mom, a very scary delivery and health impacts with her youngest. For me, we literally can't afford more than two (bigger house, day care bills, college savings). Plus my spouse, the third of four, thinks that four is "just too many."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mom of five here. It is 100 percent easier to have 5 kids than 3. I found 3 the absolute hardest. Now my older kids entertain and help with the younger kids. The year my third was born was the least happy year of my life. I am now the happiest I have ever been since becoming a mom with my fifth almost turning one. I am way more relaxed and it is 100 percent true that older kids help so much. For example on Saturday mornings I will wake up and my 12 year old has changed my toddler's diaper, turned on his cartoon, and gotten him a bowl of cheerios while I lounge in bed with DH.

What I am looking forward to is parents of 2-3 kids trying to explain why those of us with 4+ don't actually know what we are talking about when we say it's easier and we are happier than you all.

Of course parenting is easier if you check out and dgaf. Not really a flex, but at least 30% self-aware, and that's got to count for . . . something.

sorry you don't get to relax saturday mornings?

I wouldn't find not knowing if my kids had eaten or were sitting in their own filth relaxing, but it takes all kinds.

[Anonymous]

And not one word about the health of the mother and the physical toll even a healthy pregnancy takes on a mother’s body. Never mind the risk of the mother’s life, the risk of complications, the risk of long-term health impacts on the mother. Who cares about her health? Not Tim Carney.

[Anonymous]

I think up to a point it's fine and good to have older kids help with younger ones, provided the older boys have to help, too. Those are good life skills to learn.

I suspect the reason moms with four or more are happier is that most American don't have four kids unless they are some weird religion OR they LOVE having kids. So if you're choosing to have four kids, you probably dig being a mom. I don't think it's that having four kids makes you happier.

I am the youngest of three and I think it's a bad number. Too much two on one triangulations happen. And my somewhat parentified older sister is still bossy and annoying even though we are all adults now. She still expects to be in charge.

Tim Carney sure as heck didn't carry four kids and give birth to them himself. Ugh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mom of five here. It is 100 percent easier to have 5 kids than 3. I found 3 the absolute hardest. Now my older kids entertain and help with the younger kids. The year my third was born was the least happy year of my life. I am now the happiest I have ever been since becoming a mom with my fifth almost turning one. I am way more relaxed and it is 100 percent true that older kids help so much. For example on Saturday mornings I will wake up and my 12 year old has changed my toddler's diaper, turned on his cartoon, and gotten him a bowl of cheerios while I lounge in bed with DH.

What I am looking forward to is parents of 2-3 kids trying to explain why those of us with 4+ don't actually know what we are talking about when we say it's easier and we are happier than you all.

Of course parenting is easier if you check out and dgaf. Not really a flex, but at least 30% self-aware, and that's got to count for . . . something.

sorry you don't get to relax saturday mornings?

not if the kids are young, and the parent actually parents, no.

My kids are now teens, and they can take care of themselves for the most part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And not one word about the health of the mother and the physical toll even a healthy pregnancy takes on a mother’s body. Never mind the risk of the mother’s life, the risk of complications, the risk of long-term health impacts on the mother. Who cares about her health? Not Tim Carney.

This!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But how does the 12 yr old feel about it?

great - she's happy as a clam and is often offering to help even when I don't need it.

You won't know she is happy as a clam until she grows up. She might be an extreme people pleaser.

Agree. That's how she gets your attention - by being the perfect little parent helper.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But how does the 12 yr old feel about it?

great - she's happy as a clam and is often offering to help even when I don't need it.

You won't know she is happy as a clam until she grows up. She might be an extreme people pleaser.

I am 100 percent certain she's happy, because I somehow miraculously still parent despite having 5 kids. She's an A+ student with a blossoming social life and extracurriculars and even went on a solo trip with just DH and myself for her birthday. Often in the evenings with sit alone with just her and chat about life. Because again, it's a myth you can't find time to parent despite having many kids. Right now she's laughing in the front yard playing with 2 of her 4 siblings.

But I am not surprised, again, that the people with 1 or 2 kids think they know better than those of us with big families.