Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why resort to personal attacks when someone actually points out how a professional relationship works? I am completely in favor of nannies getting PTO and sick leave (and offer generous paid leave to my own nanny). I am having a hard time understanding why nannies who want to be treated as professionals can't act like professionals when it comes to advocating for their own self-interests and negotiating contracts.

Why not direct some of your outrage at the parents/employers who refuse to offer sane working conditions/benefits to their nannies? Most nannies live paycheck to paycheck or very close to it, so they might not always be in a position to demand fair treatment when looking for a new job or renewing a contract. The responsibility lies with the employer to offer what is right and fair; just because you understand WHY some parents want to be selfish doesn't make it acceptable.

I am the PP you are quoting. I am honestly confused by all your angry worked up responses because at the end of the day, I AGREE parents should offer paid leave, including paid sick leave, and other benefits. I am not sure where from my posts (or really anyone's posts on this thread) you got otherwise. You can get as angry with all parents and employers as you want, but the responsibility at the end of the day to negotiate these things lies with the nanny. According to the law, parents are expected to pay more than minimum wage and offer overtime. Nannies are hourly employees and legally parents have NO obligation to pay for any hours not worked. Do I think there should be guaranteed hours and sick pay anyway? Of course I do. Everyone has to pay bills and needs to be able to depend on an income. But it doesn't make an employer a bad or immoral person if they don't offer benefits nannies don't ask for. I had to negotiate the salary and certain benefits I wanted from my employer too - that is how the professional world works. You can keep on ranting and name calling if you think it's entertaining, of course, but at the end of the day you are doing yourself and other nannies a disservice by not standing up for yourself and being your own advocate.

FWIW - OP got some good advice on this thread. I hope she is able to negotiate some sick days and if not, move on to another job.

I am the PP you're responding to and I'd just like to clarify that none of the ranting or name calling have come from me. I suppose that's the danger of an anonymous forum but sincerely, it isn't me.

I do think parents have a moral responsibility to offer a fair package - that is, if they want coverage for serious ill kids, they offer paid sick days and if they don't offer paid sick days, they are understanding of a nanny who insists on limiting her exposure to their infections. It is taking advantage of the situation - i.e. the fact that you are hiring someone who probably doesn't have a lot of extra income or much of a nest egg - not to do so upfront. I also agree nannies should advocate for themselves and demand a fair work package, decent work environment, living wage, etc., of course, but not all parents want nannies who'll do that - some want to hire the cheapest labor they can find, ideally someone who'll be at their beck and call. Now, I have wonderful employers and it sounds like you're also probably a great MB to work for, but that isn't always the case - in many cases, the nanny who stands firm in her negotiations finds herself passed over for more desperate, and therefore compliant, options. It's very unfortunate and, I believe, unethical.

Ah apologies - its hard to tell on an anonymous forum who is saying what. I actually don't really disagree with you on what you are saying and I do see your point about the realities of the job market (especially now). Unfortunately, I don't think it is going to change unless nannies start advocating for themselves. Some parents do want the cheapest childcare out there but I think there are also a lot of parents out there who want good, reliable care for their kids (and recognize nannies need to provide for themselves too) and will do what they can to get or keep a good nanny. I hope OP is able to find one of those families.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why resort to personal attacks when someone actually points out how a professional relationship works? I am completely in favor of nannies getting PTO and sick leave (and offer generous paid leave to my own nanny). I am having a hard time understanding why nannies who want to be treated as professionals can't act like professionals when it comes to advocating for their own self-interests and negotiating contracts.

Why not direct some of your outrage at the parents/employers who refuse to offer sane working conditions/benefits to their nannies? Most nannies live paycheck to paycheck or very close to it, so they might not always be in a position to demand fair treatment when looking for a new job or renewing a contract. The responsibility lies with the employer to offer what is right and fair; just because you understand WHY some parents want to be selfish doesn't make it acceptable.

I am the PP you are quoting. I am honestly confused by all your angry worked up responses because at the end of the day, I AGREE parents should offer paid leave, including paid sick leave, and other benefits. I am not sure where from my posts (or really anyone's posts on this thread) you got otherwise. You can get as angry with all parents and employers as you want, but the responsibility at the end of the day to negotiate these things lies with the nanny. According to the law, parents are expected to pay more than minimum wage and offer overtime. Nannies are hourly employees and legally parents have NO obligation to pay for any hours not worked. Do I think there should be guaranteed hours and sick pay anyway? Of course I do. Everyone has to pay bills and needs to be able to depend on an income. But it doesn't make an employer a bad or immoral person if they don't offer benefits nannies don't ask for. I had to negotiate the salary and certain benefits I wanted from my employer too - that is how the professional world works. You can keep on ranting and name calling if you think it's entertaining, of course, but at the end of the day you are doing yourself and other nannies a disservice by not standing up for yourself and being your own advocate.

FWIW - OP got some good advice on this thread. I hope she is able to negotiate some sick days and if not, move on to another job.

I am the PP you're responding to and I'd just like to clarify that none of the ranting or name calling have come from me. I suppose that's the danger of an anonymous forum but sincerely, it isn't me.

I do think parents have a moral responsibility to offer a fair package - that is, if they want coverage for serious ill kids, they offer paid sick days and if they don't offer paid sick days, they are understanding of a nanny who insists on limiting her exposure to their infections. It is taking advantage of the situation - i.e. the fact that you are hiring someone who probably doesn't have a lot of extra income or much of a nest egg - not to do so upfront. I also agree nannies should advocate for themselves and demand a fair work package, decent work environment, living wage, etc., of course, but not all parents want nannies who'll do that - some want to hire the cheapest labor they can find, ideally someone who'll be at their beck and call. Now, I have wonderful employers and it sounds like you're also probably a great MB to work for, but that isn't always the case - in many cases, the nanny who stands firm in her negotiations finds herself passed over for more desperate, and therefore compliant, options. It's very unfortunate and, I believe, unethical.

This! It's easy for everyone to say "just ask for what you want! Be a professional!" But the truth is, there are SOOO many parents offering job with little to no PTO or benefits and so many unskilled uneducated babysitters calling themselves nannies, that if you are the nanny requiring a decent wage for your experience and background, appropriate benefits and PTO, you will be passed over more often than not for the cheaper less demanding option. I've learned to cut my losses and look for the best situation I can find but even still the job I have doesn't offer everything I feel It should (no sick days or health insurance). Because my bosses chose to offer an incomplete package, despite my attempt to negotiate, they do not get coverage for serious illnesses. I make myself valuable in other ways, and they accept this as part of our arrangement.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why resort to personal attacks when someone actually points out how a professional relationship works? I am completely in favor of nannies getting PTO and sick leave (and offer generous paid leave to my own nanny). I am having a hard time understanding why nannies who want to be treated as professionals can't act like professionals when it comes to advocating for their own self-interests and negotiating contracts.

Why not direct some of your outrage at the parents/employers who refuse to offer sane working conditions/benefits to their nannies? Most nannies live paycheck to paycheck or very close to it, so they might not always be in a position to demand fair treatment when looking for a new job or renewing a contract. The responsibility lies with the employer to offer what is right and fair; just because you understand WHY some parents want to be selfish doesn't make it acceptable.

I am the PP you are quoting. I am honestly confused by all your angry worked up responses because at the end of the day, I AGREE parents should offer paid leave, including paid sick leave, and other benefits. I am not sure where from my posts (or really anyone's posts on this thread) you got otherwise. You can get as angry with all parents and employers as you want, but the responsibility at the end of the day to negotiate these things lies with the nanny. According to the law, parents are expected to pay more than minimum wage and offer overtime. Nannies are hourly employees and legally parents have NO obligation to pay for any hours not worked. Do I think there should be guaranteed hours and sick pay anyway? Of course I do. Everyone has to pay bills and needs to be able to depend on an income. But it doesn't make an employer a bad or immoral person if they don't offer benefits nannies don't ask for. I had to negotiate the salary and certain benefits I wanted from my employer too - that is how the professional world works. You can keep on ranting and name calling if you think it's entertaining, of course, but at the end of the day you are doing yourself and other nannies a disservice by not standing up for yourself and being your own advocate.

FWIW - OP got some good advice on this thread. I hope she is able to negotiate some sick days and if not, move on to another job.

I am the PP you're responding to and I'd just like to clarify that none of the ranting or name calling have come from me. I suppose that's the danger of an anonymous forum but sincerely, it isn't me.

I do think parents have a moral responsibility to offer a fair package - that is, if they want coverage for serious ill kids, they offer paid sick days and if they don't offer paid sick days, they are understanding of a nanny who insists on limiting her exposure to their infections. It is taking advantage of the situation - i.e. the fact that you are hiring someone who probably doesn't have a lot of extra income or much of a nest egg - not to do so upfront. I also agree nannies should advocate for themselves and demand a fair work package, decent work environment, living wage, etc., of course, but not all parents want nannies who'll do that - some want to hire the cheapest labor they can find, ideally someone who'll be at their beck and call. Now, I have wonderful employers and it sounds like you're also probably a great MB to work for, but that isn't always the case - in many cases, the nanny who stands firm in her negotiations finds herself passed over for more desperate, and therefore compliant, options. It's very unfortunate and, I believe, unethical.

Anonymous wrote:OP here again: Some of you have said well you should have negotiated this up front and said you wanted sick days. I didn't think to ask when I started this position 2 1/2 years ago. When they have gotten sick I have gone to work and sometimes gotten sick myself. I will go to work vomiting because they still really need me to come in. The mom told me recently that if I get sick from them she still has to pay the drop in daycare or someone else to take care of them so she won't pay me on top of that because she doesn't feel it is fair to have to pay whoever is taking care of them and myself. So far the only other vomiting and diarrhea incidents have been very few and fortunately were mostly over the weekend so I didn't have to deal with to much puke or poop. I understand that they cannot miss work all the time and don't mind watching them when they are sick I just want to be paid for if I have to miss because I get sick from the children. Now that I know their policy I will be looking for a new family to work for. I adore their children so it's really unfortunate that it has come to this.

Unfortunate indeed, for those poor children. But who cares about them? The nanny, as is often the case with some of these families.

Anonymous wrote:Who's who, is sometimes a mystery around here, isn't it?

I don't understand why the "who" matters. If the PP disagreed with me, she should have just said so.

Who's who, is sometimes a mystery around here, isn't it?

Anonymous wrote:Thank you, Mommy Dearest.

If that was directed at me, the immediate PP, you're off base. I'm a nanny.

Look 9:46, "at the end of the day" everyone (except you, apparently) knows that each poster speaks for herself, even you.

So stop with your I'm doing nannies a "disservice" rant. Take your assinine accusations somewhere else.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why resort to personal attacks when someone actually points out how a professional relationship works? I am completely in favor of nannies getting PTO and sick leave (and offer generous paid leave to my own nanny). I am having a hard time understanding why nannies who want to be treated as professionals can't act like professionals when it comes to advocating for their own self-interests and negotiating contracts.

Why not direct some of your outrage at the parents/employers who refuse to offer sane working conditions/benefits to their nannies? Most nannies live paycheck to paycheck or very close to it, so they might not always be in a position to demand fair treatment when looking for a new job or renewing a contract. The responsibility lies with the employer to offer what is right and fair; just because you understand WHY some parents want to be selfish doesn't make it acceptable.

I am the PP you are quoting. I am honestly confused by all your angry worked up responses because at the end of the day, I AGREE parents should offer paid leave, including paid sick leave, and other benefits. I am not sure where from my posts (or really anyone's posts on this thread) you got otherwise. You can get as angry with all parents and employers as you want, but the responsibility at the end of the day to negotiate these things lies with the nanny. According to the law, parents are expected to pay more than minimum wage and offer overtime. Nannies are hourly employees and legally parents have NO obligation to pay for any hours not worked. Do I think there should be guaranteed hours and sick pay anyway? Of course I do. Everyone has to pay bills and needs to be able to depend on an income. But it doesn't make an employer a bad or immoral person if they don't offer benefits nannies don't ask for. I had to negotiate the salary and certain benefits I wanted from my employer too - that is how the professional world works. You can keep on ranting and name calling if you think it's entertaining, of course, but at the end of the day you are doing yourself and other nannies a disservice by not standing up for yourself and being your own advocate.

FWIW - OP got some good advice on this thread. I hope she is able to negotiate some sick days and if not, move on to another job.

Thank you, Mommy Dearest.

Anonymous wrote:Any parents out there reading this.

Most nannies (myself included) will take care of sick children.

Kids get fevers.
Kids vomit.
Kids get diarrhea.

Do parents want to stay home and care for their child?...or course they do.
But if they take a day off for every time their child gets a bug then their job performance suffers and they might put their job in jeopardy. Parents work to provide for their kids.

I have to agree with the PP. Kids barf and you deal with it. Life goes on. Caring for sick kids is one of the things that make nannies worth the extra cost, especially for a parent with an inflexible schedule.

To the OP, if it is the norovirus, the incubation period is very short. It is highly contagious. The immunity from it only last a few weeks, so adults are not less likely to get it.

If you want paid sick days, negotiate for them before you're hired. If you want parents with enough flexibility in their job to stay home on days like this, don't work for doctors or attorneys.

Please, for the love of all that is holy, do not bitch about not getting something you didn't ask for in the negotiation phase. If you want to work sans HR department, you need to understand that you have to advocate for yourself. If you cannot advocate for yourself, go through an agency and have them do it for you.

22:57, I'd like to think that if you did get sick from the child, they wouldn't try to make to recover without your regular pay check. They'd pay you for your sick leave, right?

I worked when my charge had the norovirus. It was awful but I was just very good about washing my hands and sanitizing everything. MB had to go back to work after taking 5 days off to be with DC. I wasn't thrilled about the situation but I don't have any resentment or anger about it. They needed me. I love them like family.

Well said. Thank you.