Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I already gave the reason above - that I think he's ready for it and needs it. It doesn't matter what others decide to do - they are deciding for their own children, and I, for mine. I also don't want the nanny to split her attention - she should focus on the baby. I don't want the baby dragged around for pickup and dropoff, and I don't want the older child's activities and schedule compromised because of the infant. They have very different care needs, which are best met by different setups.

To the poster at 17.36 - I don't know where you found preschools that are both full-time AND end at 3.30. That's not full-time. All full-time preschools we toured are open at 6 pm. You don't need to "go out of your way" to find them. That's a standard schedule for full-time care in DC area.

She's not paid over $25/hr, I should have said she's paid higher than any of the hourly numbers you mentioned. I didn't include the bonus number you referenced. So, over $17/hr but under $25/hr.

Preschools aren't open that late. Preschools have a definite start time (eg. children arrive between 8.15 and 8.30, preschool starts at 8.35) and a definite end (preschool ends at 3.30, pick up is 3.30 -3.45). Daycares don't have a set time for drop off and pick up. Before and after care for preschool may or may not have definite start and end time. A parent looking for a preschool isn't looking for a daycare and vice versa. Full time school is as long as or shorter than elementary school. A parent who looks for a preschool won't find a preschool still open at 6 pm.

You are being unnecessarily pedantic and lectury. The line between preschool and daycare is vague, and tons of preschools in this area have aftercare with activities that stretch to 6 pm. Parents look for both preschool and daycares, and many facilities are a mix of the two. There are no additional licensing or regulation requirements that preschools have to meet before they can call themselves preschools. It's not about the label, it's about content.

NP. Preschool is preparation for school. Daycare with school activities is daycare. If it is an actual school you'll have summer vacation, spring break, school holidays, etc. because it's a school. That doesn't mean a daycare can't provide school activities and do it well. But it's still a daycare.

In your logic, the thing that prepares children for school the most is vacations, breaks and holidays? Good to know.

OMG with the preschool/daycare thing. It's simply not the case that there is a major difference. I needed full time care and wanted a curriculum. Everyone calls themselves a school. This is not a line to draw.

As for OP, thanks for walking through your thought process. Of course you can do whatever you think is best but I think nanny might find it strange because it is a bit unusual to want to put your kid in full time school at this age when there is the availability of nanny care. Your reasons make sense to me but I think your choice is a bit unusual so maybe the nanny did too and took it personally for that reason. You don't seem to like her that much for someone who has taken care of your first child for so long. You seem kind of riled up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I already gave the reason above - that I think he's ready for it and needs it. It doesn't matter what others decide to do - they are deciding for their own children, and I, for mine. I also don't want the nanny to split her attention - she should focus on the baby. I don't want the baby dragged around for pickup and dropoff, and I don't want the older child's activities and schedule compromised because of the infant. They have very different care needs, which are best met by different setups.

To the poster at 17.36 - I don't know where you found preschools that are both full-time AND end at 3.30. That's not full-time. All full-time preschools we toured are open at 6 pm. You don't need to "go out of your way" to find them. That's a standard schedule for full-time care in DC area.

She's not paid over $25/hr, I should have said she's paid higher than any of the hourly numbers you mentioned. I didn't include the bonus number you referenced. So, over $17/hr but under $25/hr.

Preschools aren't open that late. Preschools have a definite start time (eg. children arrive between 8.15 and 8.30, preschool starts at 8.35) and a definite end (preschool ends at 3.30, pick up is 3.30 -3.45). Daycares don't have a set time for drop off and pick up. Before and after care for preschool may or may not have definite start and end time. A parent looking for a preschool isn't looking for a daycare and vice versa. Full time school is as long as or shorter than elementary school. A parent who looks for a preschool won't find a preschool still open at 6 pm.

You are being unnecessarily pedantic and lectury. The line between preschool and daycare is vague, and tons of preschools in this area have aftercare with activities that stretch to 6 pm. Parents look for both preschool and daycares, and many facilities are a mix of the two. There are no additional licensing or regulation requirements that preschools have to meet before they can call themselves preschools. It's not about the label, it's about content.

NP. Preschool is preparation for school. Daycare with school activities is daycare. If it is an actual school you'll have summer vacation, spring break, school holidays, etc. because it's a school. That doesn't mean a daycare can't provide school activities and do it well. But it's still a daycare.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I already gave the reason above - that I think he's ready for it and needs it. It doesn't matter what others decide to do - they are deciding for their own children, and I, for mine. I also don't want the nanny to split her attention - she should focus on the baby. I don't want the baby dragged around for pickup and dropoff, and I don't want the older child's activities and schedule compromised because of the infant. They have very different care needs, which are best met by different setups.

To the poster at 17.36 - I don't know where you found preschools that are both full-time AND end at 3.30. That's not full-time. All full-time preschools we toured are open at 6 pm. You don't need to "go out of your way" to find them. That's a standard schedule for full-time care in DC area.

She's not paid over $25/hr, I should have said she's paid higher than any of the hourly numbers you mentioned. I didn't include the bonus number you referenced. So, over $17/hr but under $25/hr.

Preschools aren't open that late. Preschools have a definite start time (eg. children arrive between 8.15 and 8.30, preschool starts at 8.35) and a definite end (preschool ends at 3.30, pick up is 3.30 -3.45). Daycares don't have a set time for drop off and pick up. Before and after care for preschool may or may not have definite start and end time. A parent looking for a preschool isn't looking for a daycare and vice versa. Full time school is as long as or shorter than elementary school. A parent who looks for a preschool won't find a preschool still open at 6 pm.

You are being unnecessarily pedantic and lectury. The line between preschool and daycare is vague, and tons of preschools in this area have aftercare with activities that stretch to 6 pm. Parents look for both preschool and daycares, and many facilities are a mix of the two. There are no additional licensing or regulation requirements that preschools have to meet before they can call themselves preschools. It's not about the label, it's about content.

Anonymous wrote:I already gave the reason above - that I think he's ready for it and needs it. It doesn't matter what others decide to do - they are deciding for their own children, and I, for mine. I also don't want the nanny to split her attention - she should focus on the baby. I don't want the baby dragged around for pickup and dropoff, and I don't want the older child's activities and schedule compromised because of the infant. They have very different care needs, which are best met by different setups.

To the poster at 17.36 - I don't know where you found preschools that are both full-time AND end at 3.30. That's not full-time. All full-time preschools we toured are open at 6 pm. You don't need to "go out of your way" to find them. That's a standard schedule for full-time care in DC area.

She's not paid over $25/hr, I should have said she's paid higher than any of the hourly numbers you mentioned. I didn't include the bonus number you referenced. So, over $17/hr but under $25/hr.

Preschools aren't open that late. Preschools have a definite start time (eg. children arrive between 8.15 and 8.30, preschool starts at 8.35) and a definite end (preschool ends at 3.30, pick up is 3.30 -3.45). Daycares don't have a set time for drop off and pick up. Before and after care for preschool may or may not have definite start and end time. A parent looking for a preschool isn't looking for a daycare and vice versa. Full time school is as long as or shorter than elementary school. A parent who looks for a preschool won't find a preschool still open at 6 pm.

Anonymous wrote:I think you're really petty op and I wouldn't want to work for someone like you. Good luck.

Because I wouldn't give a raise for non-existing workload?

I think you're really petty op and I wouldn't want to work for someone like you. Good luck.

I already gave the reason above - that I think he's ready for it and needs it. It doesn't matter what others decide to do - they are deciding for their own children, and I, for mine. I also don't want the nanny to split her attention - she should focus on the baby. I don't want the baby dragged around for pickup and dropoff, and I don't want the older child's activities and schedule compromised because of the infant. They have very different care needs, which are best met by different setups.

To the poster at 17.36 - I don't know where you found preschools that are both full-time AND end at 3.30. That's not full-time. All full-time preschools we toured are open at 6 pm. You don't need to "go out of your way" to find them. That's a standard schedule for full-time care in DC area.

She's not paid over $25/hr, I should have said she's paid higher than any of the hourly numbers you mentioned. I didn't include the bonus number you referenced. So, over $17/hr but under $25/hr.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have a Nanny why is your 3yo going to daycare full time?
Why cant he go to a preschool 3 mornings a week for now and then maybe 5 mornings a week next year?
I really dont understand this.
He has been with her as his primary caregiver for 3 years now hes getting booted out all day long until 6pm and she has his sibling.

He is four. Has been going part-time for the last year, now it's time for more.

You keep using "it's time for more" as a reason, when this is in fact not a reason. Why is it "time"? As far as I know, there's no widely accepted "time" for kids to be in school 8+ hours a day. So I'm just not sure why you keep saying this.

I have made this decision for my child - not all the children on the planet. That's all that really matters, and all the reasons you should need. I am not sure why you feel the need to question other people's childcare choices.

Of course you don't have to tell us why, but without providing any reasoning whatsoever you can see why some of us are concluding that you are going out of your way to not give the nanny a raise. It is just kind of odd.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have some things for you to consider OP.

First, nanny has known you were expecting another child, and you say she was also aware that your oldest would be put into full time preschool. However, most nannies (nearly all) get some sort of raise when there is a new baby, for the reasons illustrated in this thread (more laundry, extra duties, etc). It sounds like your nanny's duties will not be increased. But, she has probably been expecting a new baby raise. She likely feels blindsided that she is not getting a raise, when all of her nanny friends have received raises for a new baby. Clearly, you have gone pretty far out of your way to ensure that she won't have any duties related to your oldest any more, so that you wouldn't have to pay her more. But, that is not the norm, and that is not what she was expecting. I'm not saying it's okay for her to have assumed anything, but every nanny I've ever known has received a raise when a new baby arrived, so I don't think it's so terrible if she did. Also, you say her most recent raise was just four months ago. At that point, she likely knew you were expecting and she may have not negotiated as hard for a big raise, assuming that she'd get another one when baby arrived. Again, she shouldn't have assumed, but maybe in hindsight this sort of thing stings even more.

Thank you for a detailed note. You say every nanny I've ever known has received a raise when a new baby arrived. Tell me - did all of them have to take care of TWO kids when the baby arrived? Or did some of them have to take care ONLY of the baby? What I'm struggling with is this mindset of being entitled to a raise just by virtue of the fact that the family has expanded, regardless of whether the nanny's workload has actually increased. If she had to take of two children, she would clearly be entitled to a raise. But why another raise when she is only taking care of one? Just because another child lives on the premises?

I also take issue with your phrase that I bolded. I didn't go out of my way just so that I don't have to pay her more. This is how the things will work in future. I didn't put the new arrangement in place with the sole purpose of not paying her more. That is an outcome of the new arrangement, but not their purpose.

Thanks for responding OP. The reason I said that it seems you have gone far out of your way to arrange care this way is because this is NOT the norm. The norm is for older child to be put in part time preschool. But, even in the cases I've known where the older child is put into a full time preschool, the nanny still cares for the older child before and /or after preschool. That is because most nannies have schedules where they arrive between 7-8am and leave between 5:30-6:30pm, but most full time preschools, in my experience, commence between 8-9am and end between 3:30-5pm. Obviously not all nannies work the same schedule and not all preschools are the same hours, but that is why it seemed that you went out of your way to find a preschool with specific hours in mind to avoid nanny having to pick him up. I apologize for the assumption which wasn't accurate, but I hope you can see why it seemed that way.

To answer your question, yes, every nanny I've known who was with a family when a new baby arrived received a raise AND was expected to care for both children in some capacity. However, in EVERY case the older child was put into a preschool program (between 12-40 hours per week), so the nanny was still getting a raise for every hour that she worked, even though many or most of those hours were spent only with one child. My last family who I was with when a new baby arrived put their older child into full time preschool; I was with both kids for 30 mins every morning and then again with both kids for 1.5 hours in the afternoons. However I'll mention that the baby pretty much always napped for that last 1.5 hours, so my time actively spent with two kids was effectively less than an hour each day. A good friend of mine is in an almost identical situation with her current NF; it's fairly typical. So, I (and said nanny friend) received a raise for every hour I worked in my 45 hour work week, but I was really only caring for two kids less than 5 of those hours each week.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Another thing to consider is how much she is actually being paid. You say she's been with you three years and received raises every year, so it sounds like two raises then. If she started at $12/hr and is now at $14/hr, I can see why she feels underpaid. Especially if you don't offer guaranteed hours. Even if you started her at $15/hr and then bumped her up to $16 and now $17/hr, depending on your exact location, her experience, etc, that is still somewhat on the low side for a household with two kids. I was a nanny for 7 years before I realized how much I was being underpaid. I assumed the rates parents told me they were offering was an accurate estimate of how much a nanny should be paid, and based my rates on the averages I saw on care.com and sittercity. I already had five years of nanny experience, when I started working with a certain family with one infant at $12/hr. I was nearing my three year anniversary with them; I had never asked for a raise (and they hadn't offered), I didn't have guaranteed hours or any PTO, my Christmas bonus every year was $25. That was when I started seeking out other nannies in the area and asking about compensation. It turned out that none of the other nannies in that neighborhood made less than $15/hr, and they all received raises every year, and most had guaranteed hours. I went to my nanny family and asked for a raise, they basically laughed and told me they'd fire me if I asked again. I found a new job with better perks and better pay and quit (with three weeks notice) one month later. That was four years ago now and I never made less than $15/hr again, and always use a contract with annual reviews, etc.

She gets paid more than any number mentioned in this paragraph.

So, she's making over $25/hr, she has guaranteed hours, you never reduced her hours or pay when DC1 was in part time preschool, and she's not going to be expected to care for two kids at all, and she's still whining about not getting another raise 4 months after her last annual raise?? I'd tell her to shape up or ship out; you're paying GOOD money so you deserve a better than average nanny, and certainly not a petty one with a bad attitude! Good luck OP

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She knew DS1 will be starting full-time preschool. She also knew I was pregnant, and we asked her if she would be willing to nanny the newborn now that DS1 is starting full-time elsewhere. She said yes. That happened before her review.

We did not reduce her hours when DS1 started part-time preschool.

I disagree with your position that it is the norm to give the nanny another raise when there is a birth in the family. The raise doesn't happen by virtue of the baby emerging from someone's loins. The raise occurs when the workload increases substantially enough to justify it, i.e. when the nanny has to care for the newborn IN ADDITION to the older child. It may be a norm to raise the nanny's rates when another child is added to her care. This isn't happening in our case as she won't care for two children.

There won't be a clause about her caring for two children in an emergency because she won't care for two children in an emergency.

In any event, the poster above has a point that regardless of the reason, she isn't happy about this turn of events. If that's the case, we aren't right for each other any more. I think I'll have a sit-down with her to explain, again, what our childcare needs are, and if she's happy to continue meeting them. If not, we'll have to part ways because I don't want to employ someone who isn't happy with the job. If I have to find someone new, it may as well be now while I'm still on mat leave. I am not sure what you mean about the nanny treated without consideration, but it seems that I'm working with the mindset that new-baby raises are due no matter what. This isn't happening so it's best everything is in the clear.

How much notice will you give her?

I'm not interested in letting her go, so it would really be how much notice SHE gives. I am happy to keep her employed if she is happy to stay.

It sounds like you were completely upfront about everything, so yes, I do agree that she is asking for too much to ask for another raise now. With that said, based on your attitude here about her feelings not mattering at all, I would be looking for a new position, which I wouldn't tell you during the discussion because I wouldn't want to risk being fired early, but I would give you whatever notice the contract requires as soon as I secured a new position. Whether she stays or goes, I wish you luck, OP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She knew DS1 will be starting full-time preschool. She also knew I was pregnant, and we asked her if she would be willing to nanny the newborn now that DS1 is starting full-time elsewhere. She said yes. That happened before her review.

We did not reduce her hours when DS1 started part-time preschool.

I disagree with your position that it is the norm to give the nanny another raise when there is a birth in the family. The raise doesn't happen by virtue of the baby emerging from someone's loins. The raise occurs when the workload increases substantially enough to justify it, i.e. when the nanny has to care for the newborn IN ADDITION to the older child. It may be a norm to raise the nanny's rates when another child is added to her care. This isn't happening in our case as she won't care for two children.

There won't be a clause about her caring for two children in an emergency because she won't care for two children in an emergency.

In any event, the poster above has a point that regardless of the reason, she isn't happy about this turn of events. If that's the case, we aren't right for each other any more. I think I'll have a sit-down with her to explain, again, what our childcare needs are, and if she's happy to continue meeting them. If not, we'll have to part ways because I don't want to employ someone who isn't happy with the job. If I have to find someone new, it may as well be now while I'm still on mat leave. I am not sure what you mean about the nanny treated without consideration, but it seems that I'm working with the mindset that new-baby raises are due no matter what. This isn't happening so it's best everything is in the clear.

How much notice will you give her?

I'm not interested in letting her go, so it would really be how much notice SHE gives. I am happy to keep her employed if she is happy to stay.

Anonymous wrote:She knew DS1 will be starting full-time preschool. She also knew I was pregnant, and we asked her if she would be willing to nanny the newborn now that DS1 is starting full-time elsewhere. She said yes. That happened before her review.

We did not reduce her hours when DS1 started part-time preschool.

I disagree with your position that it is the norm to give the nanny another raise when there is a birth in the family. The raise doesn't happen by virtue of the baby emerging from someone's loins. The raise occurs when the workload increases substantially enough to justify it, i.e. when the nanny has to care for the newborn IN ADDITION to the older child. It may be a norm to raise the nanny's rates when another child is added to her care. This isn't happening in our case as she won't care for two children.

There won't be a clause about her caring for two children in an emergency because she won't care for two children in an emergency.

In any event, the poster above has a point that regardless of the reason, she isn't happy about this turn of events. If that's the case, we aren't right for each other any more. I think I'll have a sit-down with her to explain, again, what our childcare needs are, and if she's happy to continue meeting them. If not, we'll have to part ways because I don't want to employ someone who isn't happy with the job. If I have to find someone new, it may as well be now while I'm still on mat leave. I am not sure what you mean about the nanny treated without consideration, but it seems that I'm working with the mindset that new-baby raises are due no matter what. This isn't happening so it's best everything is in the clear.

How much notice will you give her?

OP, I think that is the best solution. Maybe when you talk to her again she will have had some time to think about it and will want to proceed. Or maybe not, in which case you have time to find someone else. You don't want someone who is resenting the job watching your kids anyway.

She knew DS1 will be starting full-time preschool. She also knew I was pregnant, and we asked her if she would be willing to nanny the newborn now that DS1 is starting full-time elsewhere. She said yes. That happened before her review.

We did not reduce her hours when DS1 started part-time preschool.

I disagree with your position that it is the norm to give the nanny another raise when there is a birth in the family. The raise doesn't happen by virtue of the baby emerging from someone's loins. The raise occurs when the workload increases substantially enough to justify it, i.e. when the nanny has to care for the newborn IN ADDITION to the older child. It may be a norm to raise the nanny's rates when another child is added to her care. This isn't happening in our case as she won't care for two children.

There won't be a clause about her caring for two children in an emergency because she won't care for two children in an emergency.

In any event, the poster above has a point that regardless of the reason, she isn't happy about this turn of events. If that's the case, we aren't right for each other any more. I think I'll have a sit-down with her to explain, again, what our childcare needs are, and if she's happy to continue meeting them. If not, we'll have to part ways because I don't want to employ someone who isn't happy with the job. If I have to find someone new, it may as well be now while I'm still on mat leave. I am not sure what you mean about the nanny treated without consideration, but it seems that I'm working with the mindset that new-baby raises are due no matter what. This isn't happening so it's best everything is in the clear.