Anonymous wrote:I give up. Can't argue with stupid.

+1

I give up. Can't argue with stupid.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you, 12:59, but we still don't see where it says that house cleaners or nannies can't qualify as ICs. As you know, some of them very well are independant contractors, according to the law. That's all that matters here, not your rediculous anger about the facts.

First off, I said I was a new poster. If you want to call yourself an IC I really don't care; you're the one who is suffering because of it. You asked for proof in the tax document where it said certain information. I pointed out said information. Also, the word is "ridiculous."

No where in your text does it say that a nanny is never, or can't be an IC. In fact, IRS determines IC vs employee status on the nature of the work. This includes a long list of questions to answer. This includes, but not limited to, WHO controls HOW the work is done.
Thank you for your typo correction.

Anonymous wrote:Thank you, 12:59, but we still don't see where it says that house cleaners or nannies can't qualify as ICs. As you know, some of them very well are independant contractors, according to the law. That's all that matters here, not your rediculous anger about the facts.

First off, I said I was a new poster. If you want to call yourself an IC I really don't care; you're the one who is suffering because of it. You asked for proof in the tax document where it said certain information. I pointed out said information. Also, the word is "ridiculous."

Looks like we have a disgruntled individual here with an ax to grind against legal independent contractors. She's most likely a worried agency owner with insufficient clientele, but naturally would never admit to that. Agencies understandably feel threatened by professionals in the field who bypass the agency route. Considering the low success rate of most agencies, professional nannies have nothing to loose by expanding their options.

It's just one nut job trying to assert her superiority over all of us by trying to convince us that nannies can be ICs, and that they, in addition to being expensive being market norms, are the most skilled. My guess is that some past employer really pulled a mind f#ck on her to skimp out on taxes. She's just so sure that being an IC is some kind of badge of honor, rather than the unnecessary tax burden it really is.

It is more true to say that a NCS should be a w2 employee than it is to say a nanny should be an IC like a NCS under current tax law.

In fact, when I have worked for families with high clearances to worry about they generally w2 me just to eliminate any possibility of problem even though 98% of my clients don't.

I get that some nannies see the benefit to being an IC, but that doesn't mean you are. It also doesn't mean a nanny should jump at the chance for a 1099, because the majority of the time it is the nanny that loses in that situation.

As far as the various training classe go, I think 16:28 perfectly sums up my experience learning from Carolyn and the stories I've heard from many people about Katie Morin & Nancy Hamm. The NCSA is pretty much a sham. There is zero oversight of it all. Nancy created the course materials, sells them to be "certified" by herself via the NCSA. Very few people in the NCS community view it as legit. Education is good, but make sure you really research the various programs, who will be teaching, If they are qualified to be teaching, and what they will teach.

Anonymous wrote:Thank you, 12:59, but we still don't see where it says that house cleaners or nannies can't qualify as ICs. As you know, some of them very well are independant contractors, according to the law. That's all that matters here, not your rediculous anger about the facts.

Actually, nannies are never IC's. They are always employees and the law is very clear on that. I'm not quite sure why people have such a hard time understanding this.

IRS Publication 926- http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p926.pdf

You have a household employee if you hired someone to do household work and that worker is your employee. The worker is your employee if you can control not only what work is done, but how it is done. If the worker is your employee, it does not matter whether the work is full time or part time or that you hired the worker through an agency or from a list provided by an agency or association. It also does not matter whether you pay the worker on an hourly, daily, or weekly basis, or by the job.


As stated above, some Newborn Care Specialist file as Independent Contractors, but it is a grey area of the law and not 100% clear.

Along the same lines, some cleaning ladies/housekeepers also qualify as Independent Contractors, but not all of them. In general the ones who clean several houses a day and bring their own equipment would be IC's. The ones who work for one family all week would be an employee. IRS Publication 926- http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p926.pdf

Here is the definition of an Independant Contractor-

An independent contractor is hired to perform a job or service for an employer, but the employer has no control over the details of how the services are performed. Generally, an independent contractor provides needed equipment and supplies and is free to make other decisions along those lines. An independent contractor not only controls how the job gets done, but they also have the right to control who does the job, meaning they can hire someone to fill in for them when necessary. Also, contractors don't work regularly for the employer; instead they are hired on an as-needed basis.

If your nanny worked as an independent contractor, she would make all the decisions about television time, where she takes the kids, and when naps would happen without consulting you first. She could also decide to hire someone else to fill in for her on days that she can't make it, without having to consult with you. As an independent contractor she would be responsible for providing supplies, like the stroller and those goldfish, on her own instead of using yours.

Thank you, 12:59, but we still don't see where it says that house cleaners or nannies can't qualify as ICs. As you know, some of them very well are independant contractors, according to the law. That's all that matters here, not your rediculous anger about the facts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is very much a grey area of the law. A lot of Newborn Care Specialists do file as Independent Contractors, but it's not a black and white issue. If a family is worried or want to make sure they are 100% correct, then they should pay the NCS as an employee.

As for the training. I've taken more than one course that was "certified" by the NCSA and they were both junk. One was a Newborn Care course and the other was a sleep training course. Now that I know better and have learned more, I would reccomend the training through the Alexandria School. She has a 6 week online course starting in the next week or so and it's only $300, which is cheap compared to a lot of the NCSA courses.

Can you be specific as to which course you took that was "approved" that you though were junk? I really want to take a NCS training course and would like to make an informed decision. I am not sold on the Alexandria School course either. It is $580 for the Basic and Advanced course. I also did one of their seminars and the speaker was talking about baby wearing and did not even know what some of the most popular baby carriers were!! Not really the kind of education I am looking for.

Has anyone taken a course from The Newborn Care Training Academy? They are newer so I am wanting feedback on their program if anyone has it.

Ok, I took the Newborn Care Specialist course offered through Multiple Blessings, taught by Katie Morin. Ms. Morin is a nice person, but extremely unorganized and flaky. She kept my check for several weeks without cashing it. Finally deposited it about 5 days before the course I had signed up for, then proceeded to cancel the course 2 days before saying she didn't have enough students registered. After many emails and text messages back and forth over several weeks I finally got her to schedule another course. This course was held in her home with all 3 of her children home and in/out of the room. Nice kids, but of course distracting having them come in and out. She basically just read from her manual, which I could do myself.

Sleep training was an online course taught by Nancy Hamm. Ms. Hamm was also very unorganized and got off topic easily. Basically sat through her telling stories, the phone ringing, dog barking, etc.. The material taught wasn't terrible, but difficult to pick out amongst all the other distractions, stories, etc. Easily 1/2 of the content of the videos was her chit chatting and telling stories.

As for the Alexandria School. I have recently taken a couple of in person courses with Caroline Stulberg and thought she was excellent. Material was well presented and she was very knowledgeable and able to answer all the questions asked (about preemies and NICU babies). I haven't taken an online course with her, so I can't vouch for how her teaching methods will translate to the online world.

Hope that helps.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IRS Publication 926. Very clear that nannies are household employees, not independent contractors.

There is no such sentence, although it is true that MOST nannies are employees. If you disagree, please quote the sentence that supports your opinion.

Not the PP, but here:
The end of page 2/beginning of page 3.

Do You Have a Household
Employee?
You have a household employee if you hired someone to
do household work and that worker is your employee. The
worker is your employee if you can control not only what
work is done, but how it is done. If the worker is your em-
ployee, it does not matter whether the work is full time or
part time or that you hired the worker through an agency
or from a list provided by an agency or association. It also
does not matter whether you pay the worker on an hourly,
daily, or weekly basis, or by the job.
Example.
You pay Betty Shore to babysit your child
and do light housework 4 days a week in your home. Betty
follows your specific instructions about household and
child care duties. You provide the household equipment
and supplies that Betty needs to do her work. Betty is your
household employee.
Household work.
Household work is work done in or
around your home. Some examples of workers who do
household work are:
Babysitters,
Caretakers,
House cleaning workers,
Domestic workers,
Drivers,
Health aides,
Housekeepers,
Maids,
Nannies,
Private nurses, and
Yard workers.

Most parents don't care about certifications from some agency calling itself a NCS accreditor because most parents know there are no legitimate, enforceable standards for the accrediting of NCS. The only way it is worth paying for an NCS is if one hires a registered nurse. Most parents don't need an RN for a newborn.

So, nannies, stop wasting your time on meaningless "certifications" and spend your education money where it counts...on university level ECE classes, RC and AHA certs, and developing skills that distinguish you in the marketplace.

Stop listening to the weird troll postings of the 'nannies can be ICs' person. It is very strange that she is so invested in promoting something that is so bad for nannies. Advocate for and only accept legal employment, with a proper W2, as a nanny.

Anonymous wrote:In no way is it logical that an NCS is just like a nanny. NCS are trained and/or experienced in the care of newborns under 12 weeks old. They are hired by parents to come into a home briefly, and as such, they are often IC's. Nannies are not classified as IC's.

It's like an old-time SAT word logic problem. All nannies work with children under 18. All Newborn Care Specialists work with children under 12 weeks old. So are all nannies Newborn Care Specialists?

Don't be absurd. Of course a NCS is not just like a nanny. That doesn't change the fact that most of them still consider themselves to be nannies, in the general sense of the term.

As most of us know, many of them are well-established legal independant contractors.

Anonymous wrote:IRS Publication 926. Very clear that nannies are household employees, not independent contractors.

There is no such sentence, although it is true that MOST nannies are employees. If you disagree, please quote the sentence that supports your opinion.

In no way is it logical that an NCS is just like a nanny. NCS are trained and/or experienced in the care of newborns under 12 weeks old. They are hired by parents to come into a home briefly, and as such, they are often IC's. Nannies are not classified as IC's.

It's like an old-time SAT word logic problem. All nannies work with children under 18. All Newborn Care Specialists work with children under 12 weeks old. So are all nannies Newborn Care Specialists?