Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, the TV doesn't seem like too big of an issue assuming it's not a constant thing. I imagine it could be rectified in the future by making sure you communicate that you do have back-up care if she needs a day off. I don't think not paying her for extra sick days is unfair, it's how most jobs work. You might consider offering her extra PTO if she is coming in sick because she is worried about money and you are happy with her work in general, but that's at your discretion. The biggest issue here seems like the fact that her schedule does not offer the flexibility you need. You may need to look into other options- a nanny with a more flexible schedule, nanny share, daycare, etc. to find the best option for you and your schedule.

OP here. You are right on with all your points. There's some other background here that I didn't mention in trying to stay on topic. But I have actually spoken with her recently about needing some kind of change in our arrangement, because it wasn't working out financially for us. I'm not going to go into it but it didn't go well. She was in a tough situation and this was the last thing she needed. Some other things transpired, and I agreed to keep her on for another 6 months or so.

On another subject, there's a lot of talk on this forum regarding sick days, snow days, pto. And how it would be considered ludicrous to not offer these things. But giving it some thought, I humbly disagree. I think it's a nice thing to do for your nanny and something the employer should decide on. I work on contract. I get no pto, no sick days, no snow days, no holidays. If I don't work, I don't get paid. My husband gets vacation but he doesn't get sick days or snow days. So I take issue with some of the opinions on this forum that assert that these things are some sort of required benefits for the nanny.

Come back after 6 months and let us know how it's going with nanny/ies who you don't give paid sick days to.
Think you're missing a lot of work now?

I'm not OP but she didn't say she doesn't give paid sick days. She said the nanny used up all her PTO/sick days. That's the real world. In any job, if you use up all your time off you don't get more. You can't say you want to be treated like any other job but then ask for special exceptions.

She said in the above post that she takes issue with PTO and Paid vacation being required benefits.
Doesn't seem as though she plans to offer it to her next nanny.
Perhaps OP can clarify.
I do agree that once a nanny (or anyone else) uses her PTO, any additional days off should be unpaid, unless the nanny caught an illness from your children or she is unable to work due to inclimate weather.
Some may not believe that PTO should be a required benefit for a nanny, but it is.
You, of course, can decline to offer these. I can promise that you'll be unhappy with the caliber of employee you'll attract.

OP here. I offer my current nanny, who is part-time, 10 days PTO, 6 paid holidays, a holiday bonus, and a very competitive hourly rate. In addition, she can take additional time off whenever she wants, unpaid. I feel that these benefits are ABOVE and beyond what is required, but you know what, I wanted to attract a great caregiver for our child. Sick days and snow days were never part of our agreement, but guess what, when she couldn't come in, or when she was too sick to come in, I still paid her because I like her and want to keep her, and I didn't feel like she was purposely missing days.

In addition, she has had no flexibility in her work schedule recently because of personal stuff going on in her life, which hurts me because my workflow is so erratic. At the end of the day, for my current work situation, what does this amount to? In the last 6 months alone, I must have paid her for about 45+ days where I couldn't work, but still had to pay her. Which means that after paying her, I pretty much broke even in the last 6 months, and made no income. Nevertheless, I'm still glad I'm working, as it keeps me in the job market, and it will help secure my future earning potential.

So yes, you are right. In 6 months, IF we do decide to hire a new nanny, I am seriously considering offering no PTO, but a significantly higher hourly rate to make up for it. Is this truly an absurd idea? I'm honestly asking. It would just work better for my working arrangement.

There are many, many people who don't get PTO in their jobs. Yes, the majority do, but that still leaves everyone else. I think it's unfair to say that every family is REQUIRED to offer PTO, just because "most" other jobs do. I think it's up to the individual family and caregiver to agree on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, the TV doesn't seem like too big of an issue assuming it's not a constant thing. I imagine it could be rectified in the future by making sure you communicate that you do have back-up care if she needs a day off. I don't think not paying her for extra sick days is unfair, it's how most jobs work. You might consider offering her extra PTO if she is coming in sick because she is worried about money and you are happy with her work in general, but that's at your discretion. The biggest issue here seems like the fact that her schedule does not offer the flexibility you need. You may need to look into other options- a nanny with a more flexible schedule, nanny share, daycare, etc. to find the best option for you and your schedule.

OP here. You are right on with all your points. There's some other background here that I didn't mention in trying to stay on topic. But I have actually spoken with her recently about needing some kind of change in our arrangement, because it wasn't working out financially for us. I'm not going to go into it but it didn't go well. She was in a tough situation and this was the last thing she needed. Some other things transpired, and I agreed to keep her on for another 6 months or so.

On another subject, there's a lot of talk on this forum regarding sick days, snow days, pto. And how it would be considered ludicrous to not offer these things. But giving it some thought, I humbly disagree. I think it's a nice thing to do for your nanny and something the employer should decide on. I work on contract. I get no pto, no sick days, no snow days, no holidays. If I don't work, I don't get paid. My husband gets vacation but he doesn't get sick days or snow days. So I take issue with some of the opinions on this forum that assert that these things are some sort of required benefits for the nanny.

Come back after 6 months and let us know how it's going with nanny/ies who you don't give paid sick days to.
Think you're missing a lot of work now?

I'm not OP but she didn't say she doesn't give paid sick days. She said the nanny used up all her PTO/sick days. That's the real world. In any job, if you use up all your time off you don't get more. You can't say you want to be treated like any other job but then ask for special exceptions.

She said in the above post that she takes issue with PTO and Paid vacation being required benefits.
Doesn't seem as though she plans to offer it to her next nanny.
Perhaps OP can clarify.
I do agree that once a nanny (or anyone else) uses her PTO, any additional days off should be unpaid, unless the nanny caught an illness from your children or she is unable to work due to inclimate weather.
Some may not believe that PTO should be a required benefit for a nanny, but it is.
You, of course, can decline to offer these. I can promise that you'll be unhappy with the caliber of employee you'll attract.

OP here. I offer my current nanny, who is part-time, 10 days PTO, 6 paid holidays, a holiday bonus, and a very competitive hourly rate. In addition, she can take additional time off whenever she wants, unpaid. I feel that these benefits are ABOVE and beyond what is required, but you know what, I wanted to attract a great caregiver for our child. Sick days and snow days were never part of our agreement, but guess what, when she couldn't come in, or when she was too sick to come in, I still paid her because I like her and want to keep her, and I didn't feel like she was purposely missing days.

In addition, she has had no flexibility in her work schedule recently because of personal stuff going on in her life, which hurts me because my workflow is so erratic. At the end of the day, for my current work situation, what does this amount to? In the last 6 months alone, I must have paid her for about 45+ days where I couldn't work, but still had to pay her. Which means that after paying her, I pretty much broke even in the last 6 months, and made no income. Nevertheless, I'm still glad I'm working, as it keeps me in the job market, and it will help secure my future earning potential.

So yes, you are right. In 6 months, IF we do decide to hire a new nanny, I am seriously considering offering no PTO, but a significantly higher hourly rate to make up for it. Is this truly an absurd idea? I'm honestly asking. It would just work better for my working arrangement.

There are many, many people who don't get PTO in their jobs. Yes, the majority do, but that still leaves everyone else. I think it's unfair to say that every family is REQUIRED to offer PTO, just because "most" other jobs do. I think it's up to the individual family and caregiver to agree on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, the TV doesn't seem like too big of an issue assuming it's not a constant thing. I imagine it could be rectified in the future by making sure you communicate that you do have back-up care if she needs a day off. I don't think not paying her for extra sick days is unfair, it's how most jobs work. You might consider offering her extra PTO if she is coming in sick because she is worried about money and you are happy with her work in general, but that's at your discretion. The biggest issue here seems like the fact that her schedule does not offer the flexibility you need. You may need to look into other options- a nanny with a more flexible schedule, nanny share, daycare, etc. to find the best option for you and your schedule.

OP here. You are right on with all your points. There's some other background here that I didn't mention in trying to stay on topic. But I have actually spoken with her recently about needing some kind of change in our arrangement, because it wasn't working out financially for us. I'm not going to go into it but it didn't go well. She was in a tough situation and this was the last thing she needed. Some other things transpired, and I agreed to keep her on for another 6 months or so.

On another subject, there's a lot of talk on this forum regarding sick days, snow days, pto. And how it would be considered ludicrous to not offer these things. But giving it some thought, I humbly disagree. I think it's a nice thing to do for your nanny and something the employer should decide on. I work on contract. I get no pto, no sick days, no snow days, no holidays. If I don't work, I don't get paid. My husband gets vacation but he doesn't get sick days or snow days. So I take issue with some of the opinions on this forum that assert that these things are some sort of required benefits for the nanny.

Come back after 6 months and let us know how it's going with nanny/ies who you don't give paid sick days to.
Think you're missing a lot of work now?

I'm not OP but she didn't say she doesn't give paid sick days. She said the nanny used up all her PTO/sick days. That's the real world. In any job, if you use up all your time off you don't get more. You can't say you want to be treated like any other job but then ask for special exceptions.

She said in the above post that she takes issue with PTO and Paid vacation being required benefits.
Doesn't seem as though she plans to offer it to her next nanny.
Perhaps OP can clarify.
I do agree that once a nanny (or anyone else) uses her PTO, any additional days off should be unpaid, unless the nanny caught an illness from your children or she is unable to work due to inclimate weather.
Some may not believe that PTO should be a required benefit for a nanny, but it is.
You, of course, can decline to offer these. I can promise that you'll be unhappy with the caliber of employee you'll attract.

OP here. I offer my current nanny, who is part-time, 10 days PTO, 6 paid holidays, a holiday bonus, and a very competitive hourly rate. In addition, she can take additional time off whenever she wants, unpaid. I feel that these benefits are ABOVE and beyond what is required, but you know what, I wanted to attract a great caregiver for our child. Sick days and snow days were never part of our agreement, but guess what, when she couldn't come in, or when she was too sick to come in, I still paid her because I like her and want to keep her, and I didn't feel like she was purposely missing days.

In addition, she has had no flexibility in her work schedule recently because of personal stuff going on in her life, which hurts me because my workflow is so erratic. At the end of the day, for my current work situation, what does this amount to? In the last 6 months alone, I must have paid her for about 45+ days where I couldn't work, but still had to pay her. Which means that after paying her, I pretty much broke even in the last 6 months, and made no income. Nevertheless, I'm still glad I'm working, as it keeps me in the job market, and it will help secure my future earning potential.

So yes, you are right. In 6 months, IF we do decide to hire a new nanny, I am seriously considering offering no PTO, but a significantly higher hourly rate to make up for it. Is this truly an absurd idea? I'm honestly asking. It would just work better for my working arrangement.

There are many, many people who don't get PTO in their jobs. Yes, the majority do, but that still leaves everyone else. I think it's unfair to say that every family is REQUIRED to offer PTO, just because "most" other jobs do. I think it's up to the individual family and caregiver to agree on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, the TV doesn't seem like too big of an issue assuming it's not a constant thing. I imagine it could be rectified in the future by making sure you communicate that you do have back-up care if she needs a day off. I don't think not paying her for extra sick days is unfair, it's how most jobs work. You might consider offering her extra PTO if she is coming in sick because she is worried about money and you are happy with her work in general, but that's at your discretion. The biggest issue here seems like the fact that her schedule does not offer the flexibility you need. You may need to look into other options- a nanny with a more flexible schedule, nanny share, daycare, etc. to find the best option for you and your schedule.

OP here. You are right on with all your points. There's some other background here that I didn't mention in trying to stay on topic. But I have actually spoken with her recently about needing some kind of change in our arrangement, because it wasn't working out financially for us. I'm not going to go into it but it didn't go well. She was in a tough situation and this was the last thing she needed. Some other things transpired, and I agreed to keep her on for another 6 months or so.

On another subject, there's a lot of talk on this forum regarding sick days, snow days, pto. And how it would be considered ludicrous to not offer these things. But giving it some thought, I humbly disagree. I think it's a nice thing to do for your nanny and something the employer should decide on. I work on contract. I get no pto, no sick days, no snow days, no holidays. If I don't work, I don't get paid. My husband gets vacation but he doesn't get sick days or snow days. So I take issue with some of the opinions on this forum that assert that these things are some sort of required benefits for the nanny.

Come back after 6 months and let us know how it's going with nanny/ies who you don't give paid sick days to.
Think you're missing a lot of work now?

I'm not OP but she didn't say she doesn't give paid sick days. She said the nanny used up all her PTO/sick days. That's the real world. In any job, if you use up all your time off you don't get more. You can't say you want to be treated like any other job but then ask for special exceptions.

She said in the above post that she takes issue with PTO and Paid vacation being required benefits.
Doesn't seem as though she plans to offer it to her next nanny.
Perhaps OP can clarify.
I do agree that once a nanny (or anyone else) uses her PTO, any additional days off should be unpaid, unless the nanny caught an illness from your children or she is unable to work due to inclimate weather.
Some may not believe that PTO should be a required benefit for a nanny, but it is.
You, of course, can decline to offer these. I can promise that you'll be unhappy with the caliber of employee you'll attract.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, the TV doesn't seem like too big of an issue assuming it's not a constant thing. I imagine it could be rectified in the future by making sure you communicate that you do have back-up care if she needs a day off. I don't think not paying her for extra sick days is unfair, it's how most jobs work. You might consider offering her extra PTO if she is coming in sick because she is worried about money and you are happy with her work in general, but that's at your discretion. The biggest issue here seems like the fact that her schedule does not offer the flexibility you need. You may need to look into other options- a nanny with a more flexible schedule, nanny share, daycare, etc. to find the best option for you and your schedule.

OP here. You are right on with all your points. There's some other background here that I didn't mention in trying to stay on topic. But I have actually spoken with her recently about needing some kind of change in our arrangement, because it wasn't working out financially for us. I'm not going to go into it but it didn't go well. She was in a tough situation and this was the last thing she needed. Some other things transpired, and I agreed to keep her on for another 6 months or so.

On another subject, there's a lot of talk on this forum regarding sick days, snow days, pto. And how it would be considered ludicrous to not offer these things. But giving it some thought, I humbly disagree. I think it's a nice thing to do for your nanny and something the employer should decide on. I work on contract. I get no pto, no sick days, no snow days, no holidays. If I don't work, I don't get paid. My husband gets vacation but he doesn't get sick days or snow days. So I take issue with some of the opinions on this forum that assert that these things are some sort of required benefits for the nanny.

Come back after 6 months and let us know how it's going with nanny/ies who you don't give paid sick days to.
Think you're missing a lot of work now?

I'm not OP but she didn't say she doesn't give paid sick days. She said the nanny used up all her PTO/sick days. That's the real world. In any job, if you use up all your time off you don't get more. You can't say you want to be treated like any other job but then ask for special exceptions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, the TV doesn't seem like too big of an issue assuming it's not a constant thing. I imagine it could be rectified in the future by making sure you communicate that you do have back-up care if she needs a day off. I don't think not paying her for extra sick days is unfair, it's how most jobs work. You might consider offering her extra PTO if she is coming in sick because she is worried about money and you are happy with her work in general, but that's at your discretion. The biggest issue here seems like the fact that her schedule does not offer the flexibility you need. You may need to look into other options- a nanny with a more flexible schedule, nanny share, daycare, etc. to find the best option for you and your schedule.

OP here. You are right on with all your points. There's some other background here that I didn't mention in trying to stay on topic. But I have actually spoken with her recently about needing some kind of change in our arrangement, because it wasn't working out financially for us. I'm not going to go into it but it didn't go well. She was in a tough situation and this was the last thing she needed. Some other things transpired, and I agreed to keep her on for another 6 months or so.

On another subject, there's a lot of talk on this forum regarding sick days, snow days, pto. And how it would be considered ludicrous to not offer these things. But giving it some thought, I humbly disagree. I think it's a nice thing to do for your nanny and something the employer should decide on. I work on contract. I get no pto, no sick days, no snow days, no holidays. If I don't work, I don't get paid. My husband gets vacation but he doesn't get sick days or snow days. So I take issue with some of the opinions on this forum that assert that these things are some sort of required benefits for the nanny.

Come back after 6 months and let us know how it's going with nanny/ies who you don't give paid sick days to.
Think you're missing a lot of work now?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, the TV doesn't seem like too big of an issue assuming it's not a constant thing. I imagine it could be rectified in the future by making sure you communicate that you do have back-up care if she needs a day off. I don't think not paying her for extra sick days is unfair, it's how most jobs work. You might consider offering her extra PTO if she is coming in sick because she is worried about money and you are happy with her work in general, but that's at your discretion. The biggest issue here seems like the fact that her schedule does not offer the flexibility you need. You may need to look into other options- a nanny with a more flexible schedule, nanny share, daycare, etc. to find the best option for you and your schedule.

OP here. You are right on with all your points. There's some other background here that I didn't mention in trying to stay on topic. But I have actually spoken with her recently about needing some kind of change in our arrangement, because it wasn't working out financially for us. I'm not going to go into it but it didn't go well. She was in a tough situation and this was the last thing she needed. Some other things transpired, and I agreed to keep her on for another 6 months or so.

On another subject, there's a lot of talk on this forum regarding sick days, snow days, pto. And how it would be considered ludicrous to not offer these things. But giving it some thought, I humbly disagree. I think it's a nice thing to do for your nanny and something the employer should decide on. I work on contract. I get no pto, no sick days, no snow days, no holidays. If I don't work, I don't get paid. My husband gets vacation but he doesn't get sick days or snow days. So I take issue with some of the opinions on this forum that assert that these things are some sort of required benefits for the nanny.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My nanny has missed a lot of work for various things, so "to make up for it" was coming in when she was really too sick to handle the kids. This meant I came home to a house that looked like a hurricane hit, and then felt like I would a real bitch if I said anything to the sick nanny about not doing her job right.

So, we talked a couple of days later about expectations for staying home, and she has not done that again, even though it has cost her some money since she ran through all of her PTO.

I told her that I appreciate her coming and "powering through" a headache or an upset stomach, but three little kids are too much for someone really sick, and part of her professional duty is to recognize that (and let me get a replacement for the day).

You should also feel like a real bitch not paying your legitimately sick nanny. Let me guess, she gets sick right after caring for your sick kids? When was the last time you only had 5 sick days, to use for the entire year, including doctor visits, and sick days for your kids? Compound that by working with kids, germs, and poop all day.

If working with kids is a negative aspect of a job as a nanny, then why be a nanny?

I didn't say it was a negative, I was trying to say that it contributes to illness. Nannies are given a very small, entry level, irrespective of their experience, amount of PTO. I sometimes get the feeling that some MBs, with their weeks upon weeks of PTO, are simply so far removed from this experience that they can't relate.

It is difficult as hell to stay healthy mentally and physically when you 1)are constantly exposed to illnesses and germs, 2)feel pressure to never miss work, as you are the sole employee, 3)get very little time off to begin with, and don't even have full control over how and when said piddly amount of time is used, and 4)are either uninsured or have crap insurance because your employer isn't forced to offer it. Put all of this together and nannies get sick. Sometimes they need a day to lay on the couch at work, despite feeling miserable, and let the kids entertain themselves, and not have you bitch about getting your dollars worth.

You whine when we call out, you whine when we come in, you don't see the need to offer insurance, you want us to care for your sick kids, and we get 5 days of our choosing for vacation, and 5 sick days we aren't allowed to use. Please try to think of someone else, and from their prospective every once in awhile before you complain and judge. Its probably been many years since your benefits package was so crappy, and I think you really just don't understand.

You act like all other jobs get these benefits. I'm not a nanny, I'm a physician and I don't get any PTO or sick time in my job. If I don't work I don't get paid. I also don't get health insurance. We "get" health insurance from my husbands job for which we pay $800/month. My husband gets PTO but no sick time or snow days. We still offer our nanny both 2 weeks PTO and 5 days sick time. FWIW I don't know anyone in any job who gets more than 5 days sick time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My nanny has missed a lot of work for various things, so "to make up for it" was coming in when she was really too sick to handle the kids. This meant I came home to a house that looked like a hurricane hit, and then felt like I would a real bitch if I said anything to the sick nanny about not doing her job right.

So, we talked a couple of days later about expectations for staying home, and she has not done that again, even though it has cost her some money since she ran through all of her PTO.

I told her that I appreciate her coming and "powering through" a headache or an upset stomach, but three little kids are too much for someone really sick, and part of her professional duty is to recognize that (and let me get a replacement for the day).

You should also feel like a real bitch not paying your legitimately sick nanny. Let me guess, she gets sick right after caring for your sick kids? When was the last time you only had 5 sick days, to use for the entire year, including doctor visits, and sick days for your kids? Compound that by working with kids, germs, and poop all day.

If working with kids is a negative aspect of a job as a nanny, then why be a nanny?

I didn't say it was a negative, I was trying to say that it contributes to illness. Nannies are given a very small, entry level, irrespective of their experience, amount of PTO. I sometimes get the feeling that some MBs, with their weeks upon weeks of PTO, are simply so far removed from this experience that they can't relate.

It is difficult as hell to stay healthy mentally and physically when you 1)are constantly exposed to illnesses and germs, 2)feel pressure to never miss work, as you are the sole employee, 3)get very little time off to begin with, and don't even have full control over how and when said piddly amount of time is used, and 4)are either uninsured or have crap insurance because your employer isn't forced to offer it. Put all of this together and nannies get sick. Sometimes they need a day to lay on the couch at work, despite feeling miserable, and let the kids entertain themselves, and not have you bitch about getting your dollars worth.

You whine when we call out, you whine when we come in, you don't see the need to offer insurance, you want us to care for your sick kids, and we get 5 days of our choosing for vacation, and 5 sick days we aren't allowed to use. Please try to think of someone else, and from their prospective every once in awhile before you complain and judge. Its probably been many years since your benefits package was so crappy, and I think you really just don't understand.

I haven't been involved in this thread but I'm the OP and feel the need to interject. Have you thought that maybe some employers get zero pto, sick days, holidays, etc and yet still have to pay for their nanny's?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My nanny has missed a lot of work for various things, so "to make up for it" was coming in when she was really too sick to handle the kids. This meant I came home to a house that looked like a hurricane hit, and then felt like I would a real bitch if I said anything to the sick nanny about not doing her job right.

So, we talked a couple of days later about expectations for staying home, and she has not done that again, even though it has cost her some money since she ran through all of her PTO.

I told her that I appreciate her coming and "powering through" a headache or an upset stomach, but three little kids are too much for someone really sick, and part of her professional duty is to recognize that (and let me get a replacement for the day).

You should also feel like a real bitch not paying your legitimately sick nanny. Let me guess, she gets sick right after caring for your sick kids? When was the last time you only had 5 sick days, to use for the entire year, including doctor visits, and sick days for your kids? Compound that by working with kids, germs, and poop all day.

If working with kids is a negative aspect of a job as a nanny, then why be a nanny?

I didn't say it was a negative, I was trying to say that it contributes to illness. Nannies are given a very small, entry level, irrespective of their experience, amount of PTO. I sometimes get the feeling that some MBs, with their weeks upon weeks of PTO, are simply so far removed from this experience that they can't relate.

It is difficult as hell to stay healthy mentally and physically when you 1)are constantly exposed to illnesses and germs, 2)feel pressure to never miss work, as you are the sole employee, 3)get very little time off to begin with, and don't even have full control over how and when said piddly amount of time is used, and 4)are either uninsured or have crap insurance because your employer isn't forced to offer it. Put all of this together and nannies get sick. Sometimes they need a day to lay on the couch at work, despite feeling miserable, and let the kids entertain themselves, and not have you bitch about getting your dollars worth.

You whine when we call out, you whine when we come in, you don't see the need to offer insurance, you want us to care for your sick kids, and we get 5 days of our choosing for vacation, and 5 sick days we aren't allowed to use. Please try to think of someone else, and from their prospective every once in awhile before you complain and judge. Its probably been many years since your benefits package was so crappy, and I think you really just don't understand.