PP, it's okay if you have a hard time understanding math. But don't fool yourself into thinking that employers are evil geniuses that have conspired as a group to screw over nannies.

If I am making it perfectly clear in a contract the actual rates, where is the "mincing of words"?

I could pay a rate of $15 per hour. I would then hire two separate people to stay within my budget. Then the full time nanny would be down to $600/week. Not likely her preference.

Overtime is meant to cost more than the first 40 hours. And it does. Just because YOU feel cheated because YOU can't figure out the math does not mean it's somehow a dirty trick. Employers set a budget and that's that. If the nanny's desired wage fits within the budget, great. If not, move it along, as there are plenty of other candidates that can get past the horror of an average hourly rate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Average hourly rate of $15 hr for a 50 hr work week. Before you get all twitchy about me not paying time and a half: we do. Base rate is $13.66, OT is that times 1.5. Week is consistently 50 hrs and if it goes over, we pay the OT rate.

Not all employers, and not all nannies, are so stupid that they can't understand this arrangement.

Not all nannies are so stupid to fall for this arrangement in the first place. If an employer offers me a $15/hour job, I expect to be paid $15/hour, not $13.66. Only in the nanny industry do employers try to pull this nonsense.

But this employer did not offer $15/hour but rather an average hourly rate They did it exactly right.

You don't know what they offered. In the end they worked the numbers, but I doubt very highly that they advertised $13.66/hour. That to me is what is underhanded and makes it look like you aren't actually paying OT, you're just fudging the numbers to look like it. There is no such thing as an average hourly rate. Yes I know the average is a mathematical fact, but the term itself is a total fabrication of cheap parents skirting the overtime laws.

I can tell you what they offered, because I'm the PP from above with the average rate. We made very clear to the potential nanny that we were offering 750/wk for 50hrs, meaning a rate that averaged to 15/hr, and broke it down in writing - in the contract she saw and signed before taking the job - what the base rate and OT rate were. We have never advertised by rate in a job posting but instead make sure to VERY clearly articulate this during the interview process. All candidates who had specified "$15/hr" were fine with this approach and continued to express interest in the job. The nanny we hired sees these numbers plainly on her pay statements each pay cycle and yet she remains quite satisfied with her job.

Unless you simply don't believe in math, then yes, there is such thing as an average hourly rate. It's what you get when you count up the total compensation for total hours worked and then divide by that number of hours. Just because you prefer not to negotiate on these terms doesn't mean mathematical averages don't exist.

Are you being intentionally obtuse? I acknowledged an average rate as a mathematical principle. Of course an average exists. Average rate is a made up employment term. It exists in no other industry, and is a, admittedly, creative mincing of words and math to avoid paying expensive OT that is absolutely intended to be expensive. If it weren't expensive, every business owner would be asking 60 hours of their employees rather than hiring enough to cover the hours. This "average rate" fabrication is why nannies so commonly work upwards of 60 hours. Cheap employers work the numbers so that 60 hours pays the same or little more than a 40 hour job.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Average hourly rate of $15 hr for a 50 hr work week. Before you get all twitchy about me not paying time and a half: we do. Base rate is $13.66, OT is that times 1.5. Week is consistently 50 hrs and if it goes over, we pay the OT rate.

Not all employers, and not all nannies, are so stupid that they can't understand this arrangement.

Not all nannies are so stupid to fall for this arrangement in the first place. If an employer offers me a $15/hour job, I expect to be paid $15/hour, not $13.66. Only in the nanny industry do employers try to pull this nonsense.

But this employer did not offer $15/hour but rather an average hourly rate They did it exactly right.

You don't know what they offered. In the end they worked the numbers, but I doubt very highly that they advertised $13.66/hour. That to me is what is underhanded and makes it look like you aren't actually paying OT, you're just fudging the numbers to look like it. There is no such thing as an average hourly rate. Yes I know the average is a mathematical fact, but the term itself is a total fabrication of cheap parents skirting the overtime laws.

I can tell you what they offered, because I'm the PP from above with the average rate. We made very clear to the potential nanny that we were offering 750/wk for 50hrs, meaning a rate that averaged to 15/hr, and broke it down in writing - in the contract she saw and signed before taking the job - what the base rate and OT rate were. We have never advertised by rate in a job posting but instead make sure to VERY clearly articulate this during the interview process. All candidates who had specified "$15/hr" were fine with this approach and continued to express interest in the job. The nanny we hired sees these numbers plainly on her pay statements each pay cycle and yet she remains quite satisfied with her job.

Unless you simply don't believe in math, then yes, there is such thing as an average hourly rate. It's what you get when you count up the total compensation for total hours worked and then divide by that number of hours. Just because you prefer not to negotiate on these terms doesn't mean mathematical averages don't exist.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Average hourly rate of $15 hr for a 50 hr work week. Before you get all twitchy about me not paying time and a half: we do. Base rate is $13.66, OT is that times 1.5. Week is consistently 50 hrs and if it goes over, we pay the OT rate.

Not all employers, and not all nannies, are so stupid that they can't understand this arrangement.

Not all nannies are so stupid to fall for this arrangement in the first place. If an employer offers me a $15/hour job, I expect to be paid $15/hour, not $13.66. Only in the nanny industry do employers try to pull this nonsense.

But this employer did not offer $15/hour but rather an average hourly rate They did it exactly right.

You don't know what they offered. In the end they worked the numbers, but I doubt very highly that they advertised $13.66/hour. That to me is what is underhanded and makes it look like you aren't actually paying OT, you're just fudging the numbers to look like it. There is no such thing as an average hourly rate. Yes I know the average is a mathematical fact, but the term itself is a total fabrication of cheap parents skirting the overtime laws.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Average hourly rate of $15 hr for a 50 hr work week. Before you get all twitchy about me not paying time and a half: we do. Base rate is $13.66, OT is that times 1.5. Week is consistently 50 hrs and if it goes over, we pay the OT rate.

Not all employers, and not all nannies, are so stupid that they can't understand this arrangement.

Not all nannies are so stupid to fall for this arrangement in the first place. If an employer offers me a $15/hour job, I expect to be paid $15/hour, not $13.66. Only in the nanny industry do employers try to pull this nonsense.

But this employer did not offer $15/hour but rather an average hourly rate They did it exactly right.

20:19, of course it's perfectly legal. Never said it wasn't.

But a nanny who wants to make $15/hour who is unaware of FLSA laws may be thrilled to get a $15/hour job working 50 hours for $750/week. And her employers may or may not be aware that they are not really paying "Actual OT", which would mean an extra $75/week in gross wages.

Let's say the employer is aware that the contract they wrote indicating a weekly rate of $750 for 50 hours is not exactly correct. Then even if they and nanny sign the contract, the employers are still neglecting to pay actual OT.

What needs to happen is two-fold:

Nannies need to be educated that they either need to establish an hourly rate and then expect/negotiate actual OT based on that hourly rate, or nannies need to state a weekly rate, and KNOW that it will then be broken down to straight and OT rates in the contract.

Employers need to be educated that they MUST, no exceptions, no exemptions (other than those for LI nannies) state their offers in terms of specific hourly and OT rates, equal to $XXX/week.

Why? Because the "average rate" crap causes nothing but confusion since no one is truly aware that an "average rate" means nothing without the specific FLSA breakdown of rates.

Many nannies accept a job offer expecting their hourly PLUS actual OT, and are disappointed and feel "cheated" to learn that they are actually not getting OT based on their hourly rate. That causes a lot of the resentment we see here and on other sites, don't you think?