Anonymous
10/29/2013 09:29
Subject: Re:Am I bad for eeking out every hour from my au pair?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow, I am an MB w/ a long-term nanny so I may not understand the whole au pair world, but it seems rather silly and petty to me that a parent would begrudge someone extra time off if they were around to stay w/ their children. I actually like being able to send my nanny home early b/c it means I can spend more time w/ my children. With two working parents any time we can spend with our children we do. I wouldn't spend any energy sending passive aggressive messages to my au pair and just do what works/is right for my family.
Maybe you didn't mean it like I took it but your post kind of illustrates why I feel guilty for using 45 hours and resent that. Of note, I have 3 kids under 6 (6, 4 and 3 to be exact). I work fulltime, so does my husband and we have no free help in the area (grandparents etc.).
When I have a federal holiday, I have our AP work because it is finally a day where I can relax, take care of somethings etc. Otherwise, it is ALWAYS me (and husband) taking care of the kids: mornings, evenings, weekends. I am not a machine and would soo much like a break sometimes. But you make me feel guilty because I sound like I don't want to spend extra time with my kids when I spent all of my none-working hours with them (excluding sleep).
Generally, when you have children, this is how life is. You don't get a special prize for taking care of your children when you are not at work.
Why so nasty? This poster wasn't asking for a "special prize" or even any sympathy. She was simply saying that one of the reasons she has an au pair is not only for childcare during work purposes, but also so she can get some me time. You have no idea how much of a break her au pair gets or how her au pair feels about the situation based on her tiny paragraph.
Did you even read her post? From it we can gather that 1) she feels guilty and resents being made to feel that way by posters who disagreed with her actions, 2) she feels that the expectation that she care for the children she chose to have mornings evenings and weekends is some Herculean task that only machines can do, and 3) that her AP does not get a break on holidays because HM needs the break, not her, from all the not child-caring she already does. You're right though, you cannot gather how the AP feels about situation, though I'm sure she is thrilled about it. Everyone loves working, while watching their boss kick back eating bon bons lamenting about how hard they work. Just thrilled.
PP, there's obviously a balance. And your approach of being nasty and sarcastic and basically purporting that if you want to be away from your kids for even a minute, then you shouldn't have been a mom is just unrealistic and unhelpful. I can appreciate some of what you're saying, but man, if you'd say it in a voice that was even a little kind, you'd get your point across much more successfully. I don't think the posters are reacting with defensiveness to your points, they're reacting with defensiveness to your sarcasm and meanness.
Why do you continue to insist that you are responding to one poster? I'm not the poster of the "nasty" prize post, I simply tried to further illustrate her point, and to point out the fallacies in your own post. The poster in question was looking for sympathy and does seem to have an attitude that caring for her own children is some kind of unrealistic expectation. She's really not helping the image of this program, and its attitudes like hers that disgust people in regard to the whole AP program. She sounds like a spoiled princess regarding her AP as little more than a workhorse. That's where the nastiness comes from. Its frustrating and angering to see these women exploited this way.
Anonymous
10/29/2013 09:21
Subject: Re:Am I bad for eeking out every hour from my au pair?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow, I am an MB w/ a long-term nanny so I may not understand the whole au pair world, but it seems rather silly and petty to me that a parent would begrudge someone extra time off if they were around to stay w/ their children. I actually like being able to send my nanny home early b/c it means I can spend more time w/ my children. With two working parents any time we can spend with our children we do. I wouldn't spend any energy sending passive aggressive messages to my au pair and just do what works/is right for my family.
Maybe you didn't mean it like I took it but your post kind of illustrates why I feel guilty for using 45 hours and resent that. Of note, I have 3 kids under 6 (6, 4 and 3 to be exact). I work fulltime, so does my husband and we have no free help in the area (grandparents etc.).
When I have a federal holiday, I have our AP work because it is finally a day where I can relax, take care of somethings etc. Otherwise, it is ALWAYS me (and husband) taking care of the kids: mornings, evenings, weekends. I am not a machine and would soo much like a break sometimes. But you make me feel guilty because I sound like I don't want to spend extra time with my kids when I spent all of my none-working hours with them (excluding sleep).
Generally, when you have children, this is how life is. You don't get a special prize for taking care of your children when you are not at work.
Why so nasty? This poster wasn't asking for a "special prize" or even any sympathy. She was simply saying that one of the reasons she has an au pair is not only for childcare during work purposes, but also so she can get some me time. You have no idea how much of a break her au pair gets or how her au pair feels about the situation based on her tiny paragraph.
Did you even read her post? From it we can gather that 1) she feels guilty and resents being made to feel that way by posters who disagreed with her actions, 2) she feels that the expectation that she care for the children she chose to have mornings evenings and weekends is some Herculean task that only machines can do, and 3) that her AP does not get a break on holidays because HM needs the break, not her, from all the not child-caring she already does. You're right though, you cannot gather how the AP feels about situation, though I'm sure she is thrilled about it. Everyone loves working, while watching their boss kick back eating bon bons lamenting about how hard they work. Just thrilled.
PP, there's obviously a balance. And your approach of being nasty and sarcastic and basically purporting that if you want to be away from your kids for even a minute, then you shouldn't have been a mom is just unrealistic and unhelpful. I can appreciate some of what you're saying, but man, if you'd say it in a voice that was even a little kind, you'd get your point across much more successfully. I don't think the posters are reacting with defensiveness to your points, they're reacting with defensiveness to your sarcasm and meanness.
Anonymous
10/29/2013 09:05
Subject: Re:Am I bad for eeking out every hour from my au pair?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow, I am an MB w/ a long-term nanny so I may not understand the whole au pair world, but it seems rather silly and petty to me that a parent would begrudge someone extra time off if they were around to stay w/ their children. I actually like being able to send my nanny home early b/c it means I can spend more time w/ my children. With two working parents any time we can spend with our children we do. I wouldn't spend any energy sending passive aggressive messages to my au pair and just do what works/is right for my family.
Maybe you didn't mean it like I took it but your post kind of illustrates why I feel guilty for using 45 hours and resent that. Of note, I have 3 kids under 6 (6, 4 and 3 to be exact). I work fulltime, so does my husband and we have no free help in the area (grandparents etc.).
When I have a federal holiday, I have our AP work because it is finally a day where I can relax, take care of somethings etc. Otherwise, it is ALWAYS me (and husband) taking care of the kids: mornings, evenings, weekends. I am not a machine and would soo much like a break sometimes. But you make me feel guilty because I sound like I don't want to spend extra time with my kids when I spent all of my none-working hours with them (excluding sleep).
Generally, when you have children, this is how life is. You don't get a special prize for taking care of your children when you are not at work.
Why so nasty? This poster wasn't asking for a "special prize" or even any sympathy. She was simply saying that one of the reasons she has an au pair is not only for childcare during work purposes, but also so she can get some me time. You have no idea how much of a break her au pair gets or how her au pair feels about the situation based on her tiny paragraph.
Did you even read her post? From it we can gather that 1) she feels guilty and resents being made to feel that way by posters who disagreed with her actions, 2) she feels that the expectation that she care for the children she chose to have mornings evenings and weekends is some Herculean task that only machines can do, and 3) that her AP does not get a break on holidays because HM needs the break, not her, from all the not child-caring she already does. You're right though, you cannot gather how the AP feels about situation, though I'm sure she is thrilled about it. Everyone loves working, while watching their boss kick back eating bon bons lamenting about how hard they work. Just thrilled.
Anonymous
10/29/2013 08:19
Subject: Re:Am I bad for eeking out every hour from my au pair?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow, I am an MB w/ a long-term nanny so I may not understand the whole au pair world, but it seems rather silly and petty to me that a parent would begrudge someone extra time off if they were around to stay w/ their children. I actually like being able to send my nanny home early b/c it means I can spend more time w/ my children. With two working parents any time we can spend with our children we do. I wouldn't spend any energy sending passive aggressive messages to my au pair and just do what works/is right for my family.
Maybe you didn't mean it like I took it but your post kind of illustrates why I feel guilty for using 45 hours and resent that. Of note, I have 3 kids under 6 (6, 4 and 3 to be exact). I work fulltime, so does my husband and we have no free help in the area (grandparents etc.).
When I have a federal holiday, I have our AP work because it is finally a day where I can relax, take care of somethings etc. Otherwise, it is ALWAYS me (and husband) taking care of the kids: mornings, evenings, weekends. I am not a machine and would soo much like a break sometimes. But you make me feel guilty because I sound like I don't want to spend extra time with my kids when I spent all of my none-working hours with them (excluding sleep).
Generally, when you have children, this is how life is. You don't get a special prize for taking care of your children when you are not at work.
Why so nasty? This poster wasn't asking for a "special prize" or even any sympathy. She was simply saying that one of the reasons she has an au pair is not only for childcare during work purposes, but also so she can get some me time. You have no idea how much of a break her au pair gets or how her au pair feels about the situation based on her tiny paragraph.
Anonymous
10/29/2013 06:51
Subject: Am I bad for eeking out every hour from my au pair?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:No its not just one poster. Love the fact that you all can never defend the practice, you just try to shut up the dissenters. But I wouldn't want to ruin your discussion, apologies.
Do you know how many times I personally have defended what compensation au pairs receive with actual facts and numbers? I'm sick of doing it which is why I stopped engaging with you on this thread. I have detailed so so many times how much it costs to have an au pair (hint: way more than $5/hour!) and how much time it takes to manage one. I have given actual experiences and numbers. You don't even identify yourself as anyone who knows anything other than the very basics about the program and inflammatory statements.
So I disagree that we don't defend ourselves. I've tried and you are the one who fails to listen to reason or at the very last offer facts of your own.
I'm not talking about how much YOU pay, I'm talking about what THEY make. There is a difference.
Yes, I've explained this too. They get much more than just $5 an hour. But I wouldn't write off what host parents pay either as there are economic reasons why it is cheaper (supply and demand, value of the service) If an au pair cost the same as a nanny AND lived with you, no one would take the risk and time commitment for an au pair. There are already tons more au pairs than there are host families.
But anyway. I can see I'm not going to convince you, so we'll have to agree to disagree.
Anonymous
10/29/2013 03:11
Subject: Re:Am I bad for eeking out every hour from my au pair?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow, I am an MB w/ a long-term nanny so I may not understand the whole au pair world, but it seems rather silly and petty to me that a parent would begrudge someone extra time off if they were around to stay w/ their children. I actually like being able to send my nanny home early b/c it means I can spend more time w/ my children. With two working parents any time we can spend with our children we do. I wouldn't spend any energy sending passive aggressive messages to my au pair and just do what works/is right for my family.
Maybe you didn't mean it like I took it but your post kind of illustrates why I feel guilty for using 45 hours and resent that. Of note, I have 3 kids under 6 (6, 4 and 3 to be exact). I work fulltime, so does my husband and we have no free help in the area (grandparents etc.).
When I have a federal holiday, I have our AP work because it is finally a day where I can relax, take care of somethings etc. Otherwise, it is ALWAYS me (and husband) taking care of the kids: mornings, evenings, weekends. I am not a machine and would soo much like a break sometimes. But you make me feel guilty because I sound like I don't want to spend extra time with my kids when I spent all of my none-working hours with them (excluding sleep).
Combining morning, evening and weekend days, how many hours a week do you spend with your kids. Seeing as your AP works a 9 hour day 5 days a week, tht means you probably spend about 3 hours a day on a weekday with your kids as most little kids need 12 hours of sleep at night. On the weekends assuming you spend all 12 hours of the day with them, that is 24 + 15 = 39 hours a week. Less than the AP spends with them. She is not a machine either. Your kids exhaust you in small doses, she has them 9 hours a day 5 days a week.
Anonymous
10/28/2013 23:30
Subject: Re:Am I bad for eeking out every hour from my au pair?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow, I am an MB w/ a long-term nanny so I may not understand the whole au pair world, but it seems rather silly and petty to me that a parent would begrudge someone extra time off if they were around to stay w/ their children. I actually like being able to send my nanny home early b/c it means I can spend more time w/ my children. With two working parents any time we can spend with our children we do. I wouldn't spend any energy sending passive aggressive messages to my au pair and just do what works/is right for my family.
Maybe you didn't mean it like I took it but your post kind of illustrates why I feel guilty for using 45 hours and resent that. Of note, I have 3 kids under 6 (6, 4 and 3 to be exact). I work fulltime, so does my husband and we have no free help in the area (grandparents etc.).
When I have a federal holiday, I have our AP work because it is finally a day where I can relax, take care of somethings etc. Otherwise, it is ALWAYS me (and husband) taking care of the kids: mornings, evenings, weekends. I am not a machine and would soo much like a break sometimes. But you make me feel guilty because I sound like I don't want to spend extra time with my kids when I spent all of my none-working hours with them (excluding sleep).
Generally, when you have children, this is how life is. You don't get a special prize for taking care of your children when you are not at work.
Anonymous
10/28/2013 22:48
Subject: Am I bad for eeking out every hour from my au pair?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:No its not just one poster. Love the fact that you all can never defend the practice, you just try to shut up the dissenters. But I wouldn't want to ruin your discussion, apologies.
Do you know how many times I personally have defended what compensation au pairs receive with actual facts and numbers? I'm sick of doing it which is why I stopped engaging with you on this thread. I have detailed so so many times how much it costs to have an au pair (hint: way more than $5/hour!) and how much time it takes to manage one. I have given actual experiences and numbers. You don't even identify yourself as anyone who knows anything other than the very basics about the program and inflammatory statements.
So I disagree that we don't defend ourselves. I've tried and you are the one who fails to listen to reason or at the very last offer facts of your own.
I'm not talking about how much YOU pay, I'm talking about what THEY make. There is a difference.
I'm actually curious as to why you are here. You know next to nothing about the AP program and have no stake in the program either as a Hm or as an AP. What in the world motivates you to spend so much time here and to feel like you must chime in on every thread? Do you have nothing else to do? Are you even a mom?
Anonymous
10/28/2013 22:28
Subject: Am I bad for eeking out every hour from my au pair?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:No its not just one poster. Love the fact that you all can never defend the practice, you just try to shut up the dissenters. But I wouldn't want to ruin your discussion, apologies.
Do you know how many times I personally have defended what compensation au pairs receive with actual facts and numbers? I'm sick of doing it which is why I stopped engaging with you on this thread. I have detailed so so many times how much it costs to have an au pair (hint: way more than $5/hour!) and how much time it takes to manage one. I have given actual experiences and numbers. You don't even identify yourself as anyone who knows anything other than the very basics about the program and inflammatory statements.
So I disagree that we don't defend ourselves. I've tried and you are the one who fails to listen to reason or at the very last offer facts of your own.
I'm not talking about how much YOU pay, I'm talking about what THEY make. There is a difference.
Anonymous
10/28/2013 22:09
Subject: Am I bad for eeking out every hour from my au pair?
Anonymous wrote:No its not just one poster. Love the fact that you all can never defend the practice, you just try to shut up the dissenters. But I wouldn't want to ruin your discussion, apologies.
Do you know how many times I personally have defended what compensation au pairs receive with actual facts and numbers? I'm sick of doing it which is why I stopped engaging with you on this thread. I have detailed so so many times how much it costs to have an au pair (hint: way more than $5/hour!) and how much time it takes to manage one. I have given actual experiences and numbers. You don't even identify yourself as anyone who knows anything other than the very basics about the program and inflammatory statements.
So I disagree that we don't defend ourselves. I've tried and you are the one who fails to listen to reason or at the very last offer facts of your own.
Anonymous
10/28/2013 16:11
Subject: Am I bad for eeking out every hour from my au pair?
No its not just one poster. Love the fact that you all can never defend the practice, you just try to shut up the dissenters. But I wouldn't want to ruin your discussion, apologies.
Anonymous
10/28/2013 16:05
Subject: Re:Am I bad for eeking out every hour from my au pair?
really wondering if there is just one commenter out there continually making the same lame "APs are underpaid" point. enough already! it's ruining the AP discussion thread for the rest of us.
one thing I don't get - as a HP, I'm actually glad when our AP travels away for a weekend. sometimes it's nice to be "just us". I really don't get those who schedule their APs for holidays to "force" family time. Why are you doing this?
one thing I don't get - as a HP, I'm actually glad when our AP travels away for a weekend. sometimes it's nice to be "just us". I really don't get those who schedule their APs for holidays to "force" family time. Why are you doing this?
Anonymous
10/28/2013 15:53
Subject: Am I bad for eeking out every hour from my au pair?
Anonymous wrote:Whatever, PP. You're counting only the weekly stipend and dividing it by 45, totally ignoring all the other costs host families incur. There is no host family paying within the rules of the program that can get their au pair for your "less than $5/hour." Even the $8,000 agency fee aside, you can't get to less than $5/hour. It shows that you're completely unfamiliar with the program and/or trying to start a fight.
And don't write off the inconvenience to host families of having to live with someone. I am simply not going to provide someone with room and board and pay them the same amount of money as I would someone that doesn't live with us. It doesn't make sense.
Im not writing off the inconvenience, simply pointing out that it goes both ways but you get a discount on her rate because she lives with you. I assume whatever other compensation you'd like me to consider are basically what she gets for living with you (room and board?), so all of that comes out in the wash. Even with the room and board, it is unconscionable that they receive so little pay for their work. Perhaps the money should come out of what the greedy agencies make, but don't act like APs are well compensated. And don't give me the "then why do so many girls want to be APs" line. Because they'll do anything to come to America. The same reason people hop fences or swim here. It doesn't make what you all are doing right.
Anonymous
10/28/2013 15:41
Subject: Am I bad for eeking out every hour from my au pair?
Whatever, PP. You're counting only the weekly stipend and dividing it by 45, totally ignoring all the other costs host families incur. There is no host family paying within the rules of the program that can get their au pair for your "less than $5/hour." Even the $8,000 agency fee aside, you can't get to less than $5/hour. It shows that you're completely unfamiliar with the program and/or trying to start a fight.
And don't write off the inconvenience to host families of having to live with someone. I am simply not going to provide someone with room and board and pay them the same amount of money as I would someone that doesn't live with us. It doesn't make sense.
And don't write off the inconvenience to host families of having to live with someone. I am simply not going to provide someone with room and board and pay them the same amount of money as I would someone that doesn't live with us. It doesn't make sense.
Anonymous
10/28/2013 15:26
Subject: Re:Am I bad for eeking out every hour from my au pair?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow, I am an MB w/ a long-term nanny so I may not understand the whole au pair world, but it seems rather silly and petty to me that a parent would begrudge someone extra time off if they were around to stay w/ their children. I actually like being able to send my nanny home early b/c it means I can spend more time w/ my children. With two working parents any time we can spend with our children we do. I wouldn't spend any energy sending passive aggressive messages to my au pair and just do what works/is right for my family.
Maybe you didn't mean it like I took it but your post kind of illustrates why I feel guilty for using 45 hours and resent that. Of note, I have 3 kids under 6 (6, 4 and 3 to be exact). I work fulltime, so does my husband and we have no free help in the area (grandparents etc.).
When I have a federal holiday, I have our AP work because it is finally a day where I can relax, take care of somethings etc. Otherwise, it is ALWAYS me (and husband) taking care of the kids: mornings, evenings, weekends. I am not a machine and would soo much like a break sometimes. But you make me feel guilty because I sound like I don't want to spend extra time with my kids when I spent all of my none-working hours with them (excluding sleep).
Your AP may want a break occasionally as well. Just saying. I'm sorry I just don't get the whole " wah, I decided to work and have young kids, and wah its hard work, and wah my husband and I actually have to take care of them". No one dropped these kids at your doorstep.
Yeah because au pairs never get a break. They work 45 hours a week MAX. Which means they have 123 free hours a week to have a break. No one's whining - we're just saying that it's not a mandate that you give your au pair absolutely every second off that you're not working at the expense of your own sanity.
45 hours a week is a lot to ask of someone you are barely paying, IMHO. You don't need to give her off every second off that you get off, and I don't think anyone said that. But there is a middle ground between giving off every second you have off, and using all 45 hours each week just to use them and making your AP work every holiday because for some reason you think its so awful that you and your husband have to take care of the kids you birthed when you're home. What a strange statement to make.
We've had this conversation a million times, but au pairs are not "barely paid." I posted earlier that I don't the OP is taking the right approach by literally making up hours that she really doesn't need her, but don't make people feel guilty for wanting me time. Yes, we chose to have kids. But that doesn't mean we need to feel guilty for every second we're away from them, and you strongly suggested otherwise in your "no one dropped these kids at your doorstep" post.
Again, there is a middle ground between beating yourself up over wanting time to yourself, and the woe is me caring for the kids I decided to have attitude that allows you to milk your AP for everything you can get, refusing to acknowledge that *maybe* she would like a holiday occasionally as well. Very few cultures work as many hours as Americans, with as little time off. She probably is dying for a break. Also, less than $5/hour and the pleasure of living with your boss IS barely paid. I know you pay more to the agency, but that's more akin to paying for them not paying them.