Anonymous
Post 10/22/2013 18:25     Subject: Re:When can my nanny take her Vacation?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Exactly. If a nanny expects exceptions to the norms of employment, she must make sure it is in the contract.

The default isn't that what the nanny wants is what the nanny gets. If it isn't spelled out, both parties are in a stalemate.


+1. If accrual is not specified in the contract and the parents thought it would apply by default but the nanny didn't, that doesn't mean the nanny gets to do whatever she wants. That means there is no agreement as to that term and both nanny and parents must now negotiate how to handle the situation.

As an aside, why are so many nannies on here so crude and classless in their language? Can't you make your point without sounding like a hot-headed fifteen year old from the trailer park?


Your classism is showing. The fact that you attribute the rudeness and crass language on this board to just the nanny faction says a lot about your perceptions. Disagreeing with MBs does not make one rude, and if you take off your blinders you'll see that bad language is not unique to the nannies. I'll take a hot-headed potty-mouth over a condescending, pearl-clutching, elitist.


Maybe next time you might want to read the thread before insulting people.
Anonymous
Post 10/22/2013 11:37     Subject: When can my nanny take her Vacation?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Exactly. If a nanny expects exceptions to the norms of employment, she must make sure it is in the contract.

The default isn't that what the nanny wants is what the nanny gets. If it isn't spelled out, both parties are in a stalemate.


+1. If accrual is not specified in the contract and the parents thought it would apply by default but the nanny didn't, that doesn't mean the nanny gets to do whatever she wants. That means there is no agreement as to that term and both nanny and parents must now negotiate how to handle the situation.

As an aside, why are so many nannies on here so crude and classless in their language? Can't you make your point without sounding like a hot-headed fifteen year old from the trailer park?


-1

I don't think you understand how contracts work... and you are incredibly rude in your last sentence.
Anonymous
Post 10/22/2013 09:04     Subject: When can my nanny take her Vacation?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Exactly. If a nanny expects exceptions to the norms of employment, she must make sure it is in the contract.

The default isn't that what the nanny wants is what the nanny gets. If it isn't spelled out, both parties are in a stalemate.


+1. If accrual is not specified in the contract and the parents thought it would apply by default but the nanny didn't, that doesn't mean the nanny gets to do whatever she wants. That means there is no agreement as to that term and both nanny and parents must now negotiate how to handle the situation.

As an aside, why are so many nannies on here so crude and classless in their language? Can't you make your point without sounding like a hot-headed fifteen year old from the trailer park?


Your classism is showing. The fact that you attribute the rudeness and crass language on this board to just the nanny faction says a lot about your perceptions. Disagreeing with MBs does not make one rude, and if you take off your blinders you'll see that bad language is not unique to the nannies. I'll take a hot-headed potty-mouth over a condescending, pearl-clutching, elitist.
Anonymous
Post 10/22/2013 07:38     Subject: When can my nanny take her Vacation?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Exactly. If a nanny expects exceptions to the norms of employment, she must make sure it is in the contract.

The default isn't that what the nanny wants is what the nanny gets. If it isn't spelled out, both parties are in a stalemate.


+1. If accrual is not specified in the contract and the parents thought it would apply by default but the nanny didn't, that doesn't mean the nanny gets to do whatever she wants. That means there is no agreement as to that term and both nanny and parents must now negotiate how to handle the situation.

As an aside, why are so many nannies on here so crude and classless in their language? Can't you make your point without sounding like a hot-headed fifteen year old from the trailer park?


It doesn't mean that the nanny gets to do whatever she wants. It does mean that she can use the vacation she negotiated as part of her contract, given no contingencies were put in place. It would be the same if a nanny failed to negotiate specific holidays she wants off, or guaranteed hours. The default is not whatever MB wants, but rather the bare minimum of what the contract implies. Nanny gets the holidays she negotiated, and nanny gets paid for hours worked unless otherwise agreed upon. There can be a discussion when an issue comes up, but typically a change to a contract requires the signature of both parties, and the party negotiating the change tends to be in a weaker negotiating position. Its usually the nanny, and MBs are fine with that, but here its MB. She wants to make an addition to the terms of the agreement, and she will probably have to COMPROMISE (ie. give something in return, not just pull new terms out the ass) with her nanny to get it done.
Anonymous
Post 10/22/2013 03:26     Subject: When can my nanny take her Vacation?
Anonymous wrote:What happens if the nanny contract is only for a year and the family decides after that year mark they will put the child in daycare? Are these vacation days paid out? Or does the nanny just get fucked over and not get any vacation or the pay? The reality is most nanny positions don't last multiple years and employers can fire a nanny at any point for any reason. It would be difficult for a nanny contract to hold up in court, so any unpaid leave she accrued but wasn't paid out would just end up being her loss. In my 8years of nannying I have never had to accrue my vacation time and I've worked for five different families.


In that scenario, the accrued time should be paid out. Conceptually, it is as if the nanny uses her paid vacation after what would otherwise be her last day of work.
Anonymous
Post 10/22/2013 03:24     Subject: When can my nanny take her Vacation?
Anonymous wrote:Exactly. If a nanny expects exceptions to the norms of employment, she must make sure it is in the contract.

The default isn't that what the nanny wants is what the nanny gets. If it isn't spelled out, both parties are in a stalemate.


+1. If accrual is not specified in the contract and the parents thought it would apply by default but the nanny didn't, that doesn't mean the nanny gets to do whatever she wants. That means there is no agreement as to that term and both nanny and parents must now negotiate how to handle the situation.

As an aside, why are so many nannies on here so crude and classless in their language? Can't you make your point without sounding like a hot-headed fifteen year old from the trailer park?
Anonymous
Post 10/21/2013 08:58     Subject: When can my nanny take her Vacation?
What happens if the nanny contract is only for a year and the family decides after that year mark they will put the child in daycare? Are these vacation days paid out? Or does the nanny just get fucked over and not get any vacation or the pay? The reality is most nanny positions don't last multiple years and employers can fire a nanny at any point for any reason. It would be difficult for a nanny contract to hold up in court, so any unpaid leave she accrued but wasn't paid out would just end up being her loss. In my 8years of nannying I have never had to accrue my vacation time and I've worked for five different families.
Anonymous
Post 10/20/2013 19:42     Subject: When can my nanny take her Vacation?
I am an MB and think that if contract does not say time accrues then the natural assumption is that it is fully available after a respectable waiting period, which I think OP's nanny has met.
Anonymous
Post 10/20/2013 19:18     Subject: When can my nanny take her Vacation?
Anonymous wrote:Do you honestly not understand that you are speaking to more than one person who disagrees with you, 17:32?


NP and you can't have it both ways (i.e. if it benefits the employer it's assumed and if it benefits the nanny she has to put it in the contract). You all, if there is more than one of you, sound so silly. Negotiate it upfront or call it a lesson learned, you can't change the terms of a job offer (e.g. Benefits) mid year!
Anonymous
Post 10/20/2013 19:13     Subject: When can my nanny take her Vacation?
Do you honestly not understand that you are speaking to more than one person who disagrees with you, 17:32?
Anonymous
Post 10/20/2013 17:32     Subject: When can my nanny take her Vacation?
Anonymous wrote:Exactly. If a nanny expects exceptions to the norms of employment, she must make sure it is in the contract.

The default isn't that what the nanny wants is what the nanny gets. If it isn't spelled out, both parties are in a stalemate.


You are utterly ridiculous, and I really should stop trying to reason with you. Of course, nanny is always in the wrong, MB always gets the benefit of the doubt, and its nanny's job to care for children and read the mind of her MB.

You can argue that accrual is standard (it isn't in nanny jobs, but then, how many have you had? Oh right...), but you still fail to acknowledge that if OP never put it in the contract, there is no defined system. She cannot now create an accrual system, then deny her nanny's vacation request on the grounds of it violating the magical accrual system OP just made up. Do you honestly not see how ridiculous that is?
Anonymous
Post 10/20/2013 17:15     Subject: When can my nanny take her Vacation?
Exactly. If a nanny expects exceptions to the norms of employment, she must make sure it is in the contract.

The default isn't that what the nanny wants is what the nanny gets. If it isn't spelled out, both parties are in a stalemate.
Anonymous
Post 10/20/2013 16:38     Subject: When can my nanny take her Vacation?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Well said, 7:37.


Not really. We're talking about norms for nanny jobs here, not corporate jobs.


That's precisely the point! MBs are comparing this situation to corporate jobs with vacation accrual. That is not the norm in nanny jobs, and even if it were, you still have to define the system and nanny must agree to it. Does she accrue vacation weekly, monthly, by pay period? At the beginning or end of the accrual period? Since she doesn't have access to the entirety of her vacation until the end of the year, will she roll over or be paid out unused leave, as is common in the corporate world? You can't just pull things out the ass because you failed to negotiate an agreement you are happy with. Isn't that the constant refrain nannies hear on this board?
Anonymous
Post 10/20/2013 15:39     Subject: When can my nanny take her Vacation?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Well said, 7:37.


Not really. We're talking about norms for nanny jobs here, not corporate jobs.


Norms my a$$. I have never had to accrue vacation as a nanny, only in retail and at my former nonprofit. Either way, the answer is always the same whether you're a nanny or an MB: put it in your contract or you are SOL.

Example- my contract says "all federal holidays" and then lists them. I forgot to list Veteran's Day. We compromised and I worked a half day last year because it was ambiguous. CONTRACT CONTRACT CONTRACT. It's all that matters, not what anyone else is doing.
Anonymous
Post 10/20/2013 15:28     Subject: When can my nanny take her Vacation?
Anonymous wrote:Well said, 7:37.


Not really. We're talking about norms for nanny jobs here, not corporate jobs.