Anonymous
05/07/2013 18:21
Subject: When cleaning up after the kids becomes cleaning up after the adults.
Regardless of who's doing it, you care for the children and their needs.
Anonymous
05/07/2013 18:07
Subject: When cleaning up after the kids becomes cleaning up after the adults.
Anonymous wrote:That is NOT normally expected from a full time nanny-round the clock duties? You can say it as many times as you want but that doesn't make it so. The onus is on YOU to say this is what your expectation in an interview ie. I'm only going to pay you during the hours of blank to blank but I expect you to take care of my house 24/7. You will either have to pay out the ass or you'll realize that hiring a nanny is not synonymous with round the clock servant.
Now you are just being irrational. No one is saying the nanny has to take care of the house 24/7 when she is only at work for 9 to 10 hours or so a day. I'm simply saying that good nannies who are responsible for taking care of kids' toys, supplies, laundry, and gear during their 9 to 10+ hour shift don't parse the workload to be sure the parents spend as much time on these tasks during the nanny's off hours as the nanny spends doing it during her work hours. Yes, parenting is a job, but the parent's job is different from the nanny's job.
Anonymous
05/07/2013 17:20
Subject: When cleaning up after the kids becomes cleaning up after the adults.
That is NOT normally expected from a full time nanny-round the clock duties? You can say it as many times as you want but that doesn't make it so. The onus is on YOU to say this is what your expectation in an interview ie. I'm only going to pay you during the hours of blank to blank but I expect you to take care of my house 24/7. You will either have to pay out the ass or you'll realize that hiring a nanny is not synonymous with round the clock servant.
Anonymous
05/07/2013 17:14
Subject: When cleaning up after the kids becomes cleaning up after the adults.
The fact that parents are capable of cleaning up after the kids and doing various other child-related tasks without "keeling over and dying" (to quote the irate nanny above) does not necessarily mean that they should give these tasks the same level of attention that the nanny is required to give them. The parents at issue here have clearly decided that these tasks do not represent the highest and best use of their time, so they have decided to outsource those tasks to the nanny. Doing so allows them to have time to do fun things with the kids on weekends, cook and cleanup family meals, take care of their own needs, take care of housekeeping that is not child-related, perhaps catch up on work, maintain the yard, etc. This is not only fine, it is smart. If a nanny is rigid about only wanting to clean up toys taken out on her watch, or only emptying a diaper pail if it filled up during her work hours, or not finding a 2 am bottle in need of washing when she arrives at work in the morning, she needs to make it clear during the interview process that she expects the parents to handle the same scope of work that she handles, with the same level of care, during her off hours. The onus of clarification is on the nanny in this case because this kind of arrangement is unusual and not consistent with what most parents expect from a full time nanny as opposed to a casual babysitter.
Now, whether or not a nanny should also serve as a general housekeeper/cleaning lady--in charge of cooking for the parents, cleaning bathrooms, making beds, and handling other tasks that have nothing to do with the kids--is a very different issue from what the OP is complaining about. If parents want these services, the onus is on them to negotiate for that in the interview process and pay accordingly because this is not a scope of work taken on by most professional nannies in the U.S.
Now, whether or not a nanny should also serve as a general housekeeper/cleaning lady--in charge of cooking for the parents, cleaning bathrooms, making beds, and handling other tasks that have nothing to do with the kids--is a very different issue from what the OP is complaining about. If parents want these services, the onus is on them to negotiate for that in the interview process and pay accordingly because this is not a scope of work taken on by most professional nannies in the U.S.
Anonymous
05/07/2013 12:17
Subject: When cleaning up after the kids becomes cleaning up after the adults.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:SAHM here. Though my DH and DCs are “trained” to help and do so, I am responsible for both childcare responsibilities and household duties. Although I will have taken 20 years off my career as an attorney, when all is said and done the work I have done by staying “at home” will never be valued by society generally or for social security purposes (issue for another posting). It is clearly difficult work – as neither nannies nor MBs or DBs seem interested in the day-to-day difficulties of both caring for the children and managing the household duties. As PPs note, however, this is the path I chose, and I am by-and-large comfortable with it.
However, and here is my point, as a former student of Economics (and no, not Home Economics), I recognize that the value of all work is quantifiable, and that the work that I do (childcare duties + household responsibilities) can and will be done by someone else -- given enough money. In Latin America, the truly wealthy will hire someone separate for every task (cook, chauffeur, nanny, laundress, and housekeeper). The merely wealthy might hire only a manejadora (nanny) and housekeeper. Latin American manejadoras are really jacks-of-all-trades -- they cook the meals, clean the house, do the laundry, and take care of the children. Go to a public park in Key Biscayne, Florida today, and you will see that these “manejadoras” or nannies, even wear formal uniforms (which I find truly shocking!).
I am simply saying that although some nannies may not want to fill the role of SAHP, responsible for both all the childcare and household work (and I do not fault you, because who does?), there are other nannies who are happy -- or at least willing – to contract to do ALL the stay-at-home work of the family. Any variation of nanny work is fine, so long as both the nanny and the employer carefully discuss at the outset what they expect from the other, and the nanny is fairly compensated for the amount of work done.
Agreed, since as a SAHM I clean up (with the help of DH and DCs) 24/7. I am merely noting that some nannies are willing to contract -- given enough money -- for the work that you do not want to do (and I do not fault you< as I would not want to do it either). However, some nannies would be willing to contract to clean up the weekend mess. Please talk to your employer about what they expect, and do not work for them if they want more than you should or want to give.
What did your post have to do with the topic at hand? OP is not upset about housekeeping duties, she's upset that the parents don't pick them up in the evenings and on the weekends. You're a SAHP, its your house and your family, so yes you're always on and that's a choice you made. I am a nanny during certain hours (if I were a 24 hour nanny, then I'd expect to be responsible for my duties around the clock) and its not my job to wash your dishes/bottles or clean messes made while I was off, its my employers job when they are home just as is for any other able-bodied adult. If a mess is made and my MB just didn't get to it, I have no problem helping out. That's not the issue. To say that the nanny is responsible for keeping your house running smoothly whether she is on the clock or not, and that its fine for you to routinely leave it all weekend for her to handle on Monday is simply lazy and entitled. Most people have jobs. Most people don't have nannies. And yet, most people manage to take care of their kids and home in the evenings and on weekends without keeling over and dying.
Anonymous
05/07/2013 12:13
Subject: When cleaning up after the kids becomes cleaning up after the adults.
Anonymous wrote:SAHM here. Though my DH and DCs are “trained” to help and do so, I am responsible for both childcare responsibilities and household duties. Although I will have taken 20 years off my career as an attorney, when all is said and done the work I have done by staying “at home” will never be valued by society generally or for social security purposes (issue for another posting). It is clearly difficult work – as neither nannies nor MBs or DBs seem interested in the day-to-day difficulties of both caring for the children and managing the household duties. As PPs note, however, this is the path I chose, and I am by-and-large comfortable with it.
However, and here is my point, as a former student of Economics (and no, not Home Economics), I recognize that the value of all work is quantifiable, and that the work that I do (childcare duties + household responsibilities) can and will be done by someone else -- given enough money. In Latin America, the truly wealthy will hire someone separate for every task (cook, chauffeur, nanny, laundress, and housekeeper). The merely wealthy might hire only a manejadora (nanny) and housekeeper. Latin American manejadoras are really jacks-of-all-trades -- they cook the meals, clean the house, do the laundry, and take care of the children. Go to a public park in Key Biscayne, Florida today, and you will see that these “manejadoras” or nannies, even wear formal uniforms (which I find truly shocking!).
I am simply saying that although some nannies may not want to fill the role of SAHP, responsible for both all the childcare and household work (and I do not fault you, because who does?), there are other nannies who are happy -- or at least willing – to contract to do ALL the stay-at-home work of the family. Any variation of nanny work is fine, so long as both the nanny and the employer carefully discuss at the outset what they expect from the other, and the nanny is fairly compensated for the amount of work done.
What did your post have to do with the topic at hand? OP is not upset about housekeeping duties, she's upset that the parents don't pick them up in the evenings and on the weekends. You're a SAHP, its your house and your family, so yes you're always on and that's a choice you made. I am a nanny during certain hours (if I were a 24 hour nanny, then I'd expect to be responsible for my duties around the clock) and its not my job to wash your dishes/bottles or clean messes made while I was off, its my employers job when they are home just as is for any other able-bodied adult. If a mess is made and my MB just didn't get to it, I have no problem helping out. That's not the issue. To say that the nanny is responsible for keeping your house running smoothly whether she is on the clock or not, and that its fine for you to routinely leave it all weekend for her to handle on Monday is simply lazy and entitled. Most people have jobs. Most people don't have nannies. And yet, most people manage to take care of their kids and home in the evenings and on weekends without keeling over and dying.
Anonymous
05/07/2013 12:11
Subject: When cleaning up after the kids becomes cleaning up after the adults.
Anonymous wrote:SAHM here. Though my DH and DCs are “trained” to help and do so, I am responsible for both childcare responsibilities and household duties. Although I will have taken 20 years off my career as an attorney, when all is said and done the work I have done by staying “at home” will never be valued by society generally or for social security purposes (issue for another posting). It is clearly difficult work – as neither nannies nor MBs or DBs seem interested in the day-to-day difficulties of both caring for the children and managing the household duties. As PPs note, however, this is the path I chose, and I am by-and-large comfortable with it.
However, and here is my point, as a former student of Economics (and no, not Home Economics), I recognize that the value of all work is quantifiable, and that the work that I do (childcare duties + household responsibilities) can and will be done by someone else -- given enough money. In Latin America, the truly wealthy will hire someone separate for every task (cook, chauffeur, nanny, laundress, and housekeeper). The merely wealthy might hire only a manejadora (nanny) and housekeeper. Latin American manejadoras are really jacks-of-all-trades -- they cook the meals, clean the house, do the laundry, and take care of the children. Go to a public park in Key Biscayne, Florida today, and you will see that these “manejadoras” or nannies, even wear formal uniforms (which I find truly shocking!).
I am simply saying that although some nannies may not want to fill the role of SAHP, responsible for both all the childcare and household work (and I do not fault you, because who does?), there are other nannies who are happy -- or at least willing – to contract to do ALL the stay-at-home work of the family. Any variation of nanny work is fine, so long as both the nanny and the employer carefully discuss at the outset what they expect from the other, and the nanny is fairly compensated for the amount of work done.
Why have you posted this in two separate threads?
Anonymous
05/07/2013 12:05
Subject: When cleaning up after the kids becomes cleaning up after the adults.
SAHM here. Though my DH and DCs are “trained” to help and do so, I am responsible for both childcare responsibilities and household duties. Although I will have taken 20 years off my career as an attorney, when all is said and done the work I have done by staying “at home” will never be valued by society generally or for social security purposes (issue for another posting). It is clearly difficult work – as neither nannies nor MBs or DBs seem interested in the day-to-day difficulties of both caring for the children and managing the household duties. As PPs note, however, this is the path I chose, and I am by-and-large comfortable with it.
However, and here is my point, as a former student of Economics (and no, not Home Economics), I recognize that the value of all work is quantifiable, and that the work that I do (childcare duties + household responsibilities) can and will be done by someone else -- given enough money. In Latin America, the truly wealthy will hire someone separate for every task (cook, chauffeur, nanny, laundress, and housekeeper). The merely wealthy might hire only a manejadora (nanny) and housekeeper. Latin American manejadoras are really jacks-of-all-trades -- they cook the meals, clean the house, do the laundry, and take care of the children. Go to a public park in Key Biscayne, Florida today, and you will see that these “manejadoras” or nannies, even wear formal uniforms (which I find truly shocking!).
I am simply saying that although some nannies may not want to fill the role of SAHP, responsible for both all the childcare and household work (and I do not fault you, because who does?), there are other nannies who are happy -- or at least willing – to contract to do ALL the stay-at-home work of the family. Any variation of nanny work is fine, so long as both the nanny and the employer carefully discuss at the outset what they expect from the other, and the nanny is fairly compensated for the amount of work done.
However, and here is my point, as a former student of Economics (and no, not Home Economics), I recognize that the value of all work is quantifiable, and that the work that I do (childcare duties + household responsibilities) can and will be done by someone else -- given enough money. In Latin America, the truly wealthy will hire someone separate for every task (cook, chauffeur, nanny, laundress, and housekeeper). The merely wealthy might hire only a manejadora (nanny) and housekeeper. Latin American manejadoras are really jacks-of-all-trades -- they cook the meals, clean the house, do the laundry, and take care of the children. Go to a public park in Key Biscayne, Florida today, and you will see that these “manejadoras” or nannies, even wear formal uniforms (which I find truly shocking!).
I am simply saying that although some nannies may not want to fill the role of SAHP, responsible for both all the childcare and household work (and I do not fault you, because who does?), there are other nannies who are happy -- or at least willing – to contract to do ALL the stay-at-home work of the family. Any variation of nanny work is fine, so long as both the nanny and the employer carefully discuss at the outset what they expect from the other, and the nanny is fairly compensated for the amount of work done.
Anonymous
05/06/2013 20:28
Subject: When cleaning up after the kids becomes cleaning up after the adults.
The MB's on this board can justify any ridiculous requirement they have lol. Now its my job to keep your house clean on the clock and off? Do you also not change diapers when nanny is off because its her job during the day? A nanny is defined as an hourly employee for a reason. She works a shift and when her shift is over, its someone else's job, namely the parents. My work does not come home with me. The common refrain on here is that the nannies are lazy and entitled but damn if this is laziness and entitlement, MB's!! I thought you all were so much better than us??
Anonymous
05/06/2013 20:21
Subject: When cleaning up after the kids becomes cleaning up after the adults.
20:15 here. In the above post, "no, and I can't imagine that many do," is a typo. I started to say that Parents should not leave visible filth and dirty bottles sitting all weekend, but seem to have run afoul of a character limitation and lost those words.
Anonymous
05/06/2013 20:15
Subject: When cleaning up after the kids becomes cleaning up after the adults.
Anonymous wrote:I have said it before in response to similar postings, and I will say it again.
I honestly think that it is difficult to ask a college student/graduate or graduate student to undertake any sort of housework -- cleaning, laundry, dishes -- because in most cases they will consider this sort of work beneath them.
Many families are not so much looking for a "nanny" (though that is what they will call the job) as for a "SAHP-substitute". Please ask any stay-at-home parent whether his/her work is limited to watching, driving, feeding, and caring for the kids; or whether SAHP also cooks, cleans, does the dishes and laundry for the entire family.
Many immigrant nannies (ours have always been legal) consider parenthood/nannying and household work to be hand-in-hand sisters, because in reality they are.
I think that it is very important when hiring the nanny to ask them specifically which duties they consider a part of their job. In addition, I always make sure to hire a weekly maid service -- separate from the nanny -- so that the nanny does not feel burdened by heavy-duty cleaning and housekeeping.
I think it is important to note that the OP here is not complaining that she was asked to be a general housekeeper/maid with responsibility for heavy cleaning, cooking, parents' laundry, etc. She is complaining that the parents don't clean up after the kids as diligently or as thoroughly as they expect her to do.
I have never met a professional nanny who had a problem with comprehensive child-related work, including kids' laundry, toy management, cooking, etc. and including some extra burden that is caused by the parents' failure to spend as much time on child-related cleanup tasks as they expect the nanny to spend. And that goes for the college-degreed career nannies, which happens to be all I have ever hired. I do think some college students who only have experience as occasional or summer babysitters might feel this kind of work is beneath them, or might think the parents are taking advantage of them by expecting them to provide such services. Same is true of many women who are working as a nanny by default, because they aren't qualified to do much else or aren't legal to work in the U.S. That is why these women should get paid less than the true professionals.
Nannies, you need to understand that when they are not working and not directly engaged with the kids, parents have to deal with a zillion childcare-related, house-related, personal, and financial/educational/child development planning tasks that may never even have crossed your mind, especially if you do not yet have kids of your own. Just as your employer in an office job has different responsibilities than you have, so does your employer in the nanny world. Should parents teach their kids to clean up their own toys? Yes, and most do. No, and I can't imagine that many do. Should parents spend precious time off making sure they leave all child-utilized areas in the same condition on Monday morning that you left it in on Friday evening? Hell, no. Is that a double standard? Yes, and why shouldn't it be? The parents' job with respect to their kids is just fundamentally different from your job with respect to those same kids.
Anonymous
05/06/2013 19:55
Subject: When cleaning up after the kids becomes cleaning up after the adults.
Anonymous wrote:I have said it before in response to similar postings, and I will say it again.
I honestly think that it is difficult to ask a college student/graduate or graduate student to undertake any sort of housework -- cleaning, laundry, dishes -- because in most cases they will consider this sort of work beneath them.
Many families are not so much looking for a "nanny" (though that is what they will call the job) as for a "SAHP-substitute". Please ask any stay-at-home parent whether his/her work is limited to watching, driving, feeding, and caring for the kids; or whether SAHP also cooks, cleans, does the dishes and laundry for the entire family.
Many immigrant nannies (ours have always been legal) consider parenthood/nannying and household work to be hand-in-hand sisters, because in reality they are.
I think that it is very important when hiring the nanny to ask them specifically which duties they consider a part of their job. In addition, I always make sure to hire a weekly maid service -- separate from the nanny -- so that the nanny does not feel burdened by heavy-duty cleaning and housekeeping.
A stay at home parent does the cleaning because its THEIR home. Yes their job is more than childcare. Having someone clean your home is not an entitlement. No one cleans my home for me, and you know what? I work longer hours my employers, and I manage to cook my own dinner and clean my own house. What kind of sense would it make for a stay at home parent to sit in their home all day not getting some housework done? If I was at home I would clean too. But as your nanny, no that is not my default job, and while some parents think it is and wouldn't hire me, there are a lot who agree with me and have been delighted to have me caring for their children and doing a damn good job.
Anonymous
05/06/2013 19:50
Subject: When cleaning up after the kids becomes cleaning up after the adults.
Anonymous wrote:I agree with the MB and the previous poster-- a nanny that can keep a great job has an attitude of helpfulness. No- I don't usually leave a big mess for her to clean on Monday morning but I also appreciate that she understands that the weekend is for ALL of us to take a break. I am not going to skip the park or pool with my kids on a Sunday afternoon to stay home and clean up for Monday. My nanny of 4 years has never once complained about this and that is part of the reason she keeps getting raises, gets 4 weeks of paid vacation and will continue to be appreciated. MBs just remember that there are wonderful, helpful, happy nannies out there-- look for them and you will have a happy long relationship. Someone who interviewed and told me she only wanted to assist with messes made during her hours had a list of things she refused to do would never get a call back!!!
It goes both ways, that's what a lot of MBs don't get. They want to pay the lowest rates, not pay the nanny during THEIR vacation, throw a fit about the industry norms of yearly raises and bonuses, come home as late as they want as often as they want while giving her hell if she's 5 minutes late or calls out sick, yet at the very same time expect an enthusiastic eternally grateful nanny who goes above and beyond her duties and will bust her ass to keep MB happy. I have been that nanny, always on time usually early, going above and beyond, busting my hump to please my employers and I get flack for the 2 sick days I took this year, have never gotten a bonus or raise, and they never say thank you for the little extras I do. I've just started a new job and until my new MB shows herself to be respectful and appreciative, I will be very wary of being taken advantaged of/unappreciated.
Anonymous
05/06/2013 18:48
Subject: When cleaning up after the kids becomes cleaning up after the adults.
I have said it before in response to similar postings, and I will say it again.
I honestly think that it is difficult to ask a college student/graduate or graduate student to undertake any sort of housework -- cleaning, laundry, dishes -- because in most cases they will consider this sort of work beneath them.
Many families are not so much looking for a "nanny" (though that is what they will call the job) as for a "SAHP-substitute". Please ask any stay-at-home parent whether his/her work is limited to watching, driving, feeding, and caring for the kids; or whether SAHP also cooks, cleans, does the dishes and laundry for the entire family.
Many immigrant nannies (ours have always been legal) consider parenthood/nannying and household work to be hand-in-hand sisters, because in reality they are.
I think that it is very important when hiring the nanny to ask them specifically which duties they consider a part of their job. In addition, I always make sure to hire a weekly maid service -- separate from the nanny -- so that the nanny does not feel burdened by heavy-duty cleaning and housekeeping.
I honestly think that it is difficult to ask a college student/graduate or graduate student to undertake any sort of housework -- cleaning, laundry, dishes -- because in most cases they will consider this sort of work beneath them.
Many families are not so much looking for a "nanny" (though that is what they will call the job) as for a "SAHP-substitute". Please ask any stay-at-home parent whether his/her work is limited to watching, driving, feeding, and caring for the kids; or whether SAHP also cooks, cleans, does the dishes and laundry for the entire family.
Many immigrant nannies (ours have always been legal) consider parenthood/nannying and household work to be hand-in-hand sisters, because in reality they are.
I think that it is very important when hiring the nanny to ask them specifically which duties they consider a part of their job. In addition, I always make sure to hire a weekly maid service -- separate from the nanny -- so that the nanny does not feel burdened by heavy-duty cleaning and housekeeping.
Anonymous
05/06/2013 18:32
Subject: When cleaning up after the kids becomes cleaning up after the adults.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What do they pay you?
That is completely irrelevant. Even if OP is paid 20+ it still doesn't make it right for the parents to leave the weekend mess for nanny to clean.
If the OP is truly spending 50% of her work hours cleaning child-related messes, then something is wrong. Beyond that, I don't think this is a clear cut as some of you think. My nanny's job includes cleaning up after the children, managing their laundry and wardrobes, maintaining/sanitizing/assembling/otherwise caring for their toys and gear, stocking the changing areas and emptying diaper pails, etc. I have never differentiated between messes made on my watch and messes made on the nanny's watch. It's all her job, because I've hired her to assist me with all things child-related. Does that mean I leave her dirty kid dishes and bottles from a weekend, or other unsanitary conditions? Absolutely not. But do I expect her to launder the clothes the kids wore on the weekend, and organize any toys that were left out during her off-work hours, and sanitize germs left on toys or gear over a weekend? Absolutely. She and I are not doing the same job on alternating shifts, and my focus when I am in my home needs to be much broader than hers. I have never spelled this out by contract, but have never had a nanny who had a problem with this. If I did, I would likely replace her because my life is simply too busy for that kind of pettiness.
By the way, most professional jobs, including my own, work the same way. When I take time off, my boss deals with true emergencies, but most of the work that comes in during my absence simply piles up and waits for my return.
Bottom line is that nannies who only want to be responsible for cleaning messes made on their own watch need to make that explicit during the interview process. Most moms expect that kind of arrangement with occasional babysitters, but not with full time professional nannies.
Bet you burn the good nannies out by the first anniversary
The nanny isn't taking time off as you have described with your job, it is the weekend. When nannies take their vacation time this might be expected.