Anonymous
Post 01/03/2019 16:29     Subject: Au pair overnight guests & food
Germans are direct.
Like directness.

Be direct.
Tell your au pair that while you are happy she has a friend here, she needs to supply extra food.

Done.
Anonymous
Post 01/03/2019 09:42     Subject: Au pair overnight guests & food
This issue just came up with our au pair. She is planning to host a guest for a week-plus stay, and I explained that because she is inviting the guest, she is responsible for everything related to hosting, including purchasing food and drink for her guest versus expecting us to do so. She was clearly VERY surprised to learn that she would be responsible for the “extras” that would be necessary to host another adult for that period of time.
Anonymous
Post 11/14/2018 16:09     Subject: Re:Au pair overnight guests & food
15:37 once more: pp and op I feel for you. I still believe this is solvable. One thing that can be said in favour of Germans is that they are not easily offended and very direct. Your approach is perfect. Tell them straight-forward in simple wording on the spot, when this behaviour occurs. Even if it would never enter your mind to speak to a guest like this. Don’t feel bad or uncomfortable- you are helping someone grow up and navigate through American society.

My American au pairs have always been really grateful for my cultural orientation to Germany. I usually warn them about Germans being rather opinionated and strangers telling them how to take care of the hostchild or how to cross a street

Cultural exchange sometimes does go far beyond the imaginable, I guess.
Anonymous
Post 11/14/2018 15:37     Subject: Au pair overnight guests & food
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What I'm going to say is really controversial and I am going to get flamed. But, some cultures are just not gracious guests and you have to set boundaries, which feels awful to do as a host. I find German guests to be particularly ill mannered as guests and need to warn you that I have found the only effective way to handle it is to call them out. We have many German relatives and hosted a couple German APs- consuming 5 meals worth of food is standard fare for a German guest. And God help you if you take them to a restaurant; you'll need a second mortgage to pay the bill and they will never offer to help pay. Lay down the law now while you can.


Firstly, They are not OPs guests! AP is supposed to be another adult and family member and friend is APs guest and should be behaving in a considerate and respectful way. She is already saving the cost of a hotel. They should be helping with shopping, cooking and cleaning. Thats wahat all of my APs and their friends have been doing.

Second of all. I‘m German. This behaviour is not culturally excusable. German curtesy and manners require this (at least in a conservative household): head of household sits at the top of the table, maybe even serves and gives out proportionate shares of main and sides, growing children and teenagers would be favoured and served first.
Outside the dinner table a guest always asks for anything and never opens fridge or cupboards. If you are told by your host to help yourself to anything, you won’t except tap water or toilet paper at midnight.

Upon an invitation to a restaurant you would wait for the person paying the bill to place their order and then always order something that does not exceed the cost of that dish. If they are skipping pre-course and desert, so will the guest. Also, splitting the bill and offering to pay ones share is very common. Unless you have been told beforehand that the bill is on the host, you will never assume differently.
Actually the German- Turkish community uses the term „Deutsch bezahlen“ (paying the German way) as an expression for split bills.

Finally, heres the appropiate quote for your AP and her so-called guest in German
Besuch ist wie Fisch - nach 3 Tagen stinkt er.

Her friend needs to leave!


I'm the pp you're quoting. We've hosted many, many German guests and they all act a particular way (ask to be taken to restaurants and order a ton and never pay their way, eat far more than a normal person can handle, never offer to assist with cleanup). We've hosted guests from different classes and different areas of Germany, and this behavior is consistent. It is also consistent with what OP is experiencing. I would suggest to you that Americans experience German behavior very differently than Germans experience it, and that it IS a cultural difference. It defies the norms of what Americans expect so much that even trying to set expectations is difficult. Can you imagine telling your guests simple things like "flush the toilet after you use it" and "don't use my pajamas"? No. It would never enter your mind to need to tell a guest this. German guest behavior defies the norms of American expectations so much that it is extremely difficult to prepare for and cope with.


pp, I'm not saying it is not what you or op are experiencing or that it is not a difference in culture or the way their behaviour is perceived - I'm saying it is in no way excusable. It's simply bad manners, also in Germany or German culture and they should be called upon it! Believe me I have been saying the same things, i.e. flush the toilet, don't use my nail scissors which you got out of my private en-suite when you have your own bathroom and by the way, it's considered impolite to jump back from your hosts stove in awe and screach yuck when they are cooking

Common factor was young, spoilt princess. Sorry that you have had such bad experiences with Germans maybe you should tell them to stay at the nearest Kolping Haus!
Anonymous
Post 11/14/2018 11:45     Subject: Au pair overnight guests & food
I would have a quick chat with your AP about expectations while he/she hosts guests. Each year of hosting brought different, often unexpected challenges, and I made the necessary adjustments to get by...barely. I eventually put in my handbook that AP was responsible for feeding and cleaning up after their guests, unless I specifically invited them all to share a meal with us. Often times, unless there was a particularly irritating guest, we invited them to our dinners, and they were appreciative because the meals weren't taken for granted. But we did have an AP who took advantage of our generosity and used our home as a bed and breakfast for a rotation of visits totaling several months. Inexperienced HF, inconsiderate AP.
Anonymous
Post 11/14/2018 11:32     Subject: Au pair overnight guests & food
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We have our first German AP out our 6 total.
Very kind and respectful- helps clean up. Lots of German friends hang out here - maybe not as warm as our SA APs but polite and courteous as guests.
To the OP - feeding friends and hosting their friends (and feeding them) is a small price to pay for a solid AP; and a happy one.
I am not “in love” with our current AP but my kids are; so if I have to buy an extra steak now and again (or more) it is a small price to pay for consistent, quality care.


This. Such a small price to pay to make the person that takes care of your kids happy. Just plan accordingly. Or have a take out one night if your plans got ruined.


The original example was not just one steak. It's more the AP and her friend polished off ALL of the meat from the fridge meant for another WHOLE meal.

I'd be pissed too. We buy from Costco and portion out meat for recipes during the week. So 6lbs of ground beef might be 2lbs for chili, 2lbs for burgers, and 2 1lb portions for meat sauce = 4 meals worth. It's the equivalent if our AP took all 6lbs and ate it in 2 days without asking if I had plans to do something with it.
Anonymous
Post 11/14/2018 09:39     Subject: Au pair overnight guests & food
Anonymous wrote:We have our first German AP out our 6 total.
Very kind and respectful- helps clean up. Lots of German friends hang out here - maybe not as warm as our SA APs but polite and courteous as guests.
To the OP - feeding friends and hosting their friends (and feeding them) is a small price to pay for a solid AP; and a happy one.
I am not “in love” with our current AP but my kids are; so if I have to buy an extra steak now and again (or more) it is a small price to pay for consistent, quality care.


This. Such a small price to pay to make the person that takes care of your kids happy. Just plan accordingly. Or have a take out one night if your plans got ruined.
Anonymous
Post 11/14/2018 09:16     Subject: Au pair overnight guests & food
Anonymous wrote:We have our first German AP out our 6 total.
Very kind and respectful- helps clean up. Lots of German friends hang out here - maybe not as warm as our SA APs but polite and courteous as guests.
To the OP - feeding friends and hosting their friends (and feeding them) is a small price to pay for a solid AP; and a happy one.
I am not “in love” with our current AP but my kids are; so if I have to buy an extra steak now and again (or more) it is a small price to pay for consistent, quality care.


I don’t think the OP issue is buying extra food, the issue is AP friends messing up OP food planning thus giving her a lot of extra work. I cook big portion of meals over the weekend and we eat leftover 3 out 7 days. If I was to come home to find them gone I will be very annoyed. My AP eat dinner with us but also cook her own meal for lunch and I buy everything she needs. Now since this happened once talk to AP and let it go. Also make sure you label leftover if needed.
Anonymous
Post 11/13/2018 22:09     Subject: Au pair overnight guests & food
We have our first German AP out our 6 total.
Very kind and respectful- helps clean up. Lots of German friends hang out here - maybe not as warm as our SA APs but polite and courteous as guests.
To the OP - feeding friends and hosting their friends (and feeding them) is a small price to pay for a solid AP; and a happy one.
I am not “in love” with our current AP but my kids are; so if I have to buy an extra steak now and again (or more) it is a small price to pay for consistent, quality care.
Anonymous
Post 11/13/2018 21:53     Subject: Au pair overnight guests & food
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What I'm going to say is really controversial and I am going to get flamed. But, some cultures are just not gracious guests and you have to set boundaries, which feels awful to do as a host. I find German guests to be particularly ill mannered as guests and need to warn you that I have found the only effective way to handle it is to call them out. We have many German relatives and hosted a couple German APs- consuming 5 meals worth of food is standard fare for a German guest. And God help you if you take them to a restaurant; you'll need a second mortgage to pay the bill and they will never offer to help pay. Lay down the law now while you can.


Firstly, They are not OPs guests! AP is supposed to be another adult and family member and friend is APs guest and should be behaving in a considerate and respectful way. She is already saving the cost of a hotel. They should be helping with shopping, cooking and cleaning. Thats wahat all of my APs and their friends have been doing.

Second of all. I‘m German. This behaviour is not culturally excusable. German curtesy and manners require this (at least in a conservative household): head of household sits at the top of the table, maybe even serves and gives out proportionate shares of main and sides, growing children and teenagers would be favoured and served first.
Outside the dinner table a guest always asks for anything and never opens fridge or cupboards. If you are told by your host to help yourself to anything, you won’t except tap water or toilet paper at midnight.

Upon an invitation to a restaurant you would wait for the person paying the bill to place their order and then always order something that does not exceed the cost of that dish. If they are skipping pre-course and desert, so will the guest. Also, splitting the bill and offering to pay ones share is very common. Unless you have been told beforehand that the bill is on the host, you will never assume differently.
Actually the German- Turkish community uses the term „Deutsch bezahlen“ (paying the German way) as an expression for split bills.

Finally, heres the appropiate quote for your AP and her so-called guest in German
Besuch ist wie Fisch - nach 3 Tagen stinkt er.

Her friend needs to leave!


I'm the pp you're quoting. We've hosted many, many German guests and they all act a particular way (ask to be taken to restaurants and order a ton and never pay their way, eat far more than a normal person can handle, never offer to assist with cleanup). We've hosted guests from different classes and different areas of Germany, and this behavior is consistent. It is also consistent with what OP is experiencing. I would suggest to you that Americans experience German behavior very differently than Germans experience it, and that it IS a cultural difference. It defies the norms of what Americans expect so much that even trying to set expectations is difficult. Can you imagine telling your guests simple things like "flush the toilet after you use it" and "don't use my pajamas"? No. It would never enter your mind to need to tell a guest this. German guest behavior defies the norms of American expectations so much that it is extremely difficult to prepare for and cope with.


I am sorry. But this is nonsense. I have hosted many German APs, and had many of their friends/family visit us. All of them were extremely nice, helpful, and considerate. I am sorry that you had a bad experience. But please do not generalize from your expedient with a handful of people to the entire nation. Like with every country of origin, it’s a mixed bag.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2018 23:48     Subject: Au pair overnight guests & food
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What I'm going to say is really controversial and I am going to get flamed. But, some cultures are just not gracious guests and you have to set boundaries, which feels awful to do as a host. I find German guests to be particularly ill mannered as guests and need to warn you that I have found the only effective way to handle it is to call them out. We have many German relatives and hosted a couple German APs- consuming 5 meals worth of food is standard fare for a German guest. And God help you if you take them to a restaurant; you'll need a second mortgage to pay the bill and they will never offer to help pay. Lay down the law now while you can.


Firstly, They are not OPs guests! AP is supposed to be another adult and family member and friend is APs guest and should be behaving in a considerate and respectful way. She is already saving the cost of a hotel. They should be helping with shopping, cooking and cleaning. Thats wahat all of my APs and their friends have been doing.

Second of all. I‘m German. This behaviour is not culturally excusable. German curtesy and manners require this (at least in a conservative household): head of household sits at the top of the table, maybe even serves and gives out proportionate shares of main and sides, growing children and teenagers would be favoured and served first.
Outside the dinner table a guest always asks for anything and never opens fridge or cupboards. If you are told by your host to help yourself to anything, you won’t except tap water or toilet paper at midnight.

Upon an invitation to a restaurant you would wait for the person paying the bill to place their order and then always order something that does not exceed the cost of that dish. If they are skipping pre-course and desert, so will the guest. Also, splitting the bill and offering to pay ones share is very common. Unless you have been told beforehand that the bill is on the host, you will never assume differently.
Actually the German- Turkish community uses the term „Deutsch bezahlen“ (paying the German way) as an expression for split bills.

Finally, heres the appropiate quote for your AP and her so-called guest in German
Besuch ist wie Fisch - nach 3 Tagen stinkt er.

Her friend needs to leave!


I'm the pp you're quoting. We've hosted many, many German guests and they all act a particular way (ask to be taken to restaurants and order a ton and never pay their way, eat far more than a normal person can handle, never offer to assist with cleanup). We've hosted guests from different classes and different areas of Germany, and this behavior is consistent. It is also consistent with what OP is experiencing. I would suggest to you that Americans experience German behavior very differently than Germans experience it, and that it IS a cultural difference. It defies the norms of what Americans expect so much that even trying to set expectations is difficult. Can you imagine telling your guests simple things like "flush the toilet after you use it" and "don't use my pajamas"? No. It would never enter your mind to need to tell a guest this. German guest behavior defies the norms of American expectations so much that it is extremely difficult to prepare for and cope with.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2018 23:03     Subject: Re:Au pair overnight guests & food
This is mostly bad advice. Don;t make a big deal out of AP friend eating food! It's not worth putting a dent in your relationship over something so small.

So small, in fact, I wonder if this is just the tip of the iceberg? It has to be. What is really bothering you? Might be time for introspection.

----

I don't know about German culture, but I know in other parts of Europe manners can vary based on region and class. I am from a middle class family in the South. Where I'm from, it's a grand compliment to open the fridge only to find your leftovers have been completely consumed. Feeding people is revered. Having people eat *all* your food means you're a good cook and its an honor. I wouldn't think twice about eating leftovers because that's how I was raised. You might find that rude, but it shows how *eating* is something that varies significantly by culture.

If it's about the food, chock it up to a cultural difference.

But, is it about the food? Really?
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2018 20:39     Subject: Re:Au pair overnight guests & food
Anonymous wrote:Call out AP on his/her behavior with friend. Inform her that you are not inclined to allow any more guests during the year after this rude behavior. See if AP gives you a blank look or actually apologizes/seems embarrassed.


Yes, no more multiple day guests. AP needs to provide for their guests.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2018 19:58     Subject: Re:Au pair overnight guests & food
Call out AP on his/her behavior with friend. Inform her that you are not inclined to allow any more guests during the year after this rude behavior. See if AP gives you a blank look or actually apologizes/seems embarrassed.
Anonymous
Post 11/12/2018 17:02     Subject: Re:Au pair overnight guests & food
We let our AP have visitors all the time. An overnight guest helping herself to some eggs and toast in the morning is not a big deal in my book. But if she is hosting someone for a longer stay (more than one night), I expect her to go grocery shopping in anticipation of providing for her guest. I am allowing a visitor to stay in my house, but that visitor is not MY guest; it's the AP's.