Anonymous
Post 07/14/2014 15:44     Subject: Try to talk again or let go.....
Well said, 15:30. Thank you.
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2014 15:30     Subject: Re:Try to talk again or let go.....
Agree with PP. I think these scorch and burn MBs are themselves underdeveloped in many aspects of professionalism. To say that anything less then perfect performance will lead to termination evidences a lack of problem solving skills, emotional intelligence, and employee management experience. To be fair, some MBs don't have any leadership responsibility in their work. But I don't think that is an excuse for the lack of maturity that prevents them from being able to navigate a simple employee performance issue like lateness without setting fire to the relationship.
Anonymous
Post 07/13/2014 23:59     Subject: Re:Try to talk again or let go.....
Anonymous wrote:
This is why my contract stipulates a written warning before termination unless, of course, it's for blatant cause (examples of which are summarized). Of course your nanny needs to be on time to work and needs to do their best to follow a schedule (by which I mean, attempting nap at 1p if that is the desired time but acknowledging you can't actually MAKE a child sleep if they aren't going to), but if there were concerns about the way I was handling getting the baby and toddler on the same nap schedule or something like that, I hope it would be formally addressed before I was escorted out the door. A conversation at the end of the day would not, to me, seem like a warning but part of our ongoing communication as we figure out the best routine for the kids together.

Hopefully, PP, you're just leaving out some of the more salacious details and your nanny really did deserve immediate termination.


Not showing up for work on time IS blatant cause for termination. I would expect to have to remind a 14 year old that they need to really be on time for work. An adult with a full-time job should not need reminding. Not even being at home at the time designated for nap time is unacceptable and is completely different than putting a baby down in their crib at naptime and the baby not sleeping for whatever reason.


In most work environments tardiness is considered a minor offense and subject to verbal and written warnings prior to termination. If you feel that it is cause for immediate dismissal be sure to include that in your contract because most people won't anticipate such a severe reaction.
Anonymous
Post 07/13/2014 23:02     Subject: Try to talk again or let go.....
Nannies, like many employees, are at will and can be fired at any time. It sucks, but this is the employment climate in many industries.

Severance and notice are nice perks, but are not rights and if the NF is firing for cause, are not warranted.
Anonymous
Post 07/13/2014 20:53     Subject: Re:Try to talk again or let go.....
Anonymous wrote:
This is why my contract stipulates a written warning before termination unless, of course, it's for blatant cause (examples of which are summarized). Of course your nanny needs to be on time to work and needs to do their best to follow a schedule (by which I mean, attempting nap at 1p if that is the desired time but acknowledging you can't actually MAKE a child sleep if they aren't going to), but if there were concerns about the way I was handling getting the baby and toddler on the same nap schedule or something like that, I hope it would be formally addressed before I was escorted out the door. A conversation at the end of the day would not, to me, seem like a warning but part of our ongoing communication as we figure out the best routine for the kids together.

Hopefully, PP, you're just leaving out some of the more salacious details and your nanny really did deserve immediate termination.


Not showing up for work on time IS blatant cause for termination. I would expect to have to remind a 14 year old that they need to really be on time for work. An adult with a full-time job should not need reminding. Not even being at home at the time designated for nap time is unacceptable and is completely different than putting a baby down in their crib at naptime and the baby not sleeping for whatever reason.



Nutso.
Anonymous
Post 07/13/2014 20:30     Subject: Try to talk again or let go.....
Anonymous wrote:Thank you for your input 21:45. OP here. Can I ask you how you let your nanny go? Did you tell her why? Get in to details? Keep it vague? Make up an excuse?


Sorry for the delayed reply, but I'm glad mine was helpful! I was in the lucky position of the nanny asking for some time off after our vacation to take care of "personal issues." At the end of that time, I called and said we were going in a different direction with childcare because I was going to be working longer hours and we needed a more full-time situation (she was part-time.) If you remember studying for standardized tests, I think that went into the category of, "True, true, and unrelated." She was a little surprised but didn't push, I think because she had to have known on some level that we were unhappy with her work.

Don't feel bad about however it goes, though! Employers fire employees all the time. You have a complete and total right to be unsatisfied with her performance, as everyone on here has noted. Good luck! Again, I bet you will feel so relieved when it is over.
Anonymous
Post 07/13/2014 19:27     Subject: Re:Try to talk again or let go.....
Anonymous wrote:
This is why my contract stipulates a written warning before termination unless, of course, it's for blatant cause (examples of which are summarized). Of course your nanny needs to be on time to work and needs to do their best to follow a schedule (by which I mean, attempting nap at 1p if that is the desired time but acknowledging you can't actually MAKE a child sleep if they aren't going to), but if there were concerns about the way I was handling getting the baby and toddler on the same nap schedule or something like that, I hope it would be formally addressed before I was escorted out the door. A conversation at the end of the day would not, to me, seem like a warning but part of our ongoing communication as we figure out the best routine for the kids together.

Hopefully, PP, you're just leaving out some of the more salacious details and your nanny really did deserve immediate termination.


Not showing up for work on time IS blatant cause for termination. I would expect to have to remind a 14 year old that they need to really be on time for work. An adult with a full-time job should not need reminding. Not even being at home at the time designated for nap time is unacceptable and is completely different than putting a baby down in their crib at naptime and the baby not sleeping for whatever reason.

You're crazy.
Anonymous
Post 07/13/2014 19:16     Subject: Re:Try to talk again or let go.....
This is why my contract stipulates a written warning before termination unless, of course, it's for blatant cause (examples of which are summarized). Of course your nanny needs to be on time to work and needs to do their best to follow a schedule (by which I mean, attempting nap at 1p if that is the desired time but acknowledging you can't actually MAKE a child sleep if they aren't going to), but if there were concerns about the way I was handling getting the baby and toddler on the same nap schedule or something like that, I hope it would be formally addressed before I was escorted out the door. A conversation at the end of the day would not, to me, seem like a warning but part of our ongoing communication as we figure out the best routine for the kids together.

Hopefully, PP, you're just leaving out some of the more salacious details and your nanny really did deserve immediate termination.


Not showing up for work on time IS blatant cause for termination. I would expect to have to remind a 14 year old that they need to really be on time for work. An adult with a full-time job should not need reminding. Not even being at home at the time designated for nap time is unacceptable and is completely different than putting a baby down in their crib at naptime and the baby not sleeping for whatever reason.
Anonymous
Post 07/13/2014 16:01     Subject: Try to talk again or let go.....
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Thank you for your input 21:45. OP here. Can I ask you how you let your nanny go? Did you tell her why? Get in to details? Keep it vague? Make up an excuse?


I'm not who you're asking, but here's how I let my nanny go:

First, since there wasn't a major safety concern like driving drunk without the baby in a carseat I kept my old nanny until DH and I had found a new one we wanted to hire. We arranged for the new nanny to start on a Friday for half a day (she accepted the job and gave notice at her old position two weeks earlier). On Thursday both DH and I came home a half hour before the nanny was scheduled to go home. We basically said, "Gianna, it's clear that you care for Lucy, but you've repeatedly been late, ignored the schedule and our instructions even after we went over it initially and reminded you twice. So unfortunately today is going to be your last day. Could you please go get your key to the house?" Then when she gave it back we invited her to say goodbye to our daughter and we stayed in the room for that. We handed her a check paying her through that day, let her know her health insurance would run through the end of the month, and escorted her to the front door. Then DH promptly changed the alarm code.

The new nanny worked half a day the next day with me at home and half a day on Monday with DH home before going full time. I definitely would never make up excuses. I think the kindest and yet most reasonable thing you can do if you have to fire people is let them know why, in case there's hope they can change in the future.


This is why my contract stipulates a written warning before termination unless, of course, it's for blatant cause (examples of which are summarized). Of course your nanny needs to be on time to work and needs to do their best to follow a schedule (by which I mean, attempting nap at 1p if that is the desired time but acknowledging you can't actually MAKE a child sleep if they aren't going to), but if there were concerns about the way I was handling getting the baby and toddler on the same nap schedule or something like that, I hope it would be formally addressed before I was escorted out the door. A conversation at the end of the day would not, to me, seem like a warning but part of our ongoing communication as we figure out the best routine for the kids together.

Hopefully, PP, you're just leaving out some of the more salacious details and your nanny really did deserve immediate termination.

I was thinking the same thing. Plus, seems like how you treat someone you suspect of a crime, not the people who helped provide care to your child, while you couldn't.
Anonymous
Post 07/13/2014 15:52     Subject: Try to talk again or let go.....
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Thank you for your input 21:45. OP here. Can I ask you how you let your nanny go? Did you tell her why? Get in to details? Keep it vague? Make up an excuse?


I'm not who you're asking, but here's how I let my nanny go:

First, since there wasn't a major safety concern like driving drunk without the baby in a carseat I kept my old nanny until DH and I had found a new one we wanted to hire. We arranged for the new nanny to start on a Friday for half a day (she accepted the job and gave notice at her old position two weeks earlier). On Thursday both DH and I came home a half hour before the nanny was scheduled to go home. We basically said, "Gianna, it's clear that you care for Lucy, but you've repeatedly been late, ignored the schedule and our instructions even after we went over it initially and reminded you twice. So unfortunately today is going to be your last day. Could you please go get your key to the house?" Then when she gave it back we invited her to say goodbye to our daughter and we stayed in the room for that. We handed her a check paying her through that day, let her know her health insurance would run through the end of the month, and escorted her to the front door. Then DH promptly changed the alarm code.

The new nanny worked half a day the next day with me at home and half a day on Monday with DH home before going full time. I definitely would never make up excuses. I think the kindest and yet most reasonable thing you can do if you have to fire people is let them know why, in case there's hope they can change in the future.


This is why my contract stipulates a written warning before termination unless, of course, it's for blatant cause (examples of which are summarized). Of course your nanny needs to be on time to work and needs to do their best to follow a schedule (by which I mean, attempting nap at 1p if that is the desired time but acknowledging you can't actually MAKE a child sleep if they aren't going to), but if there were concerns about the way I was handling getting the baby and toddler on the same nap schedule or something like that, I hope it would be formally addressed before I was escorted out the door. A conversation at the end of the day would not, to me, seem like a warning but part of our ongoing communication as we figure out the best routine for the kids together.

Hopefully, PP, you're just leaving out some of the more salacious details and your nanny really did deserve immediate termination.
Anonymous
Post 07/13/2014 13:53     Subject: Try to talk again or let go.....
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Thank you for your input 21:45. OP here. Can I ask you how you let your nanny go? Did you tell her why? Get in to details? Keep it vague? Make up an excuse?


I'm not who you're asking, but here's how I let my nanny go:

First, since there wasn't a major safety concern like driving drunk without the baby in a carseat I kept my old nanny until DH and I had found a new one we wanted to hire. We arranged for the new nanny to start on a Friday for half a day (she accepted the job and gave notice at her old position two weeks earlier). On Thursday both DH and I came home a half hour before the nanny was scheduled to go home. We basically said, "Gianna, it's clear that you care for Lucy, but you've repeatedly been late, ignored the schedule and our instructions even after we went over it initially and reminded you twice. So unfortunately today is going to be your last day. Could you please go get your key to the house?" Then when she gave it back we invited her to say goodbye to our daughter and we stayed in the room for that. We handed her a check paying her through that day, let her know her health insurance would run through the end of the month, and escorted her to the front door. Then DH promptly changed the alarm code.

The new nanny worked half a day the next day with me at home and half a day on Monday with DH home before going full time. I definitely would never make up excuses. I think the kindest and yet most reasonable thing you can do if you have to fire people is let them know why, in case there's hope they can change in the future.


Yikes, no notice and no severance? You pointed out that there was no major safety concern and none of the reasons you gave warrant immediate dismissal. Dismissal was warranted but not the way you went about it. Perhaps there are compelling details that you left out?

You have to choose to either pay the severance or provide notice, OP. Your nanny sounds awful. Still, if she were equally and validly displeased you would want time to transition. I have always been willing to start up to four weeks after a job offer because I know most employers have a notice period in their contract.


There is no way in hell I'd give someone severance if they're being FIRED FOR CAUSE. If they're being laid off, yes. But fired? Absolutely not.



And if you were on the other end? One nanny had an employer who lied about working late instead of just saying she was going to a social function. Just like in this case, there were possible justifications and the lie was not a huge one. Yet this nanny deserves to be fired immediately without any notice while to MB should be given leniency for the exact same behavior??

I agree this nanny needs to be let go, and I agree that I would not want to pay her severance. If you want to fire her without notice though, then that is the price of doing so. OP has those two options.
Anonymous
Post 07/12/2014 21:46     Subject: Try to talk again or let go.....
Taking all of these things together, it does seem like you need to fire her. The lying is really the one big thing, as well as the failure to follow clear directions.

HOWEVER - I do think you need to reflect on whether you are actually making your expectations clear? You say you are "flexible," so maybe you are giving her the impression that she can be flexible too with things like bedtime and food? Are you making it clear NO COW MILK, or are you making it sound like a softer preference? Especially if there are any language and/or cultural and class differences, if you are not making it clear that these are absolute requirements, this might be a communication issue that you can work on.

Anonymous
Post 07/12/2014 21:02     Subject: Try to talk again or let go.....
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Thank you for your input 21:45. OP here. Can I ask you how you let your nanny go? Did you tell her why? Get in to details? Keep it vague? Make up an excuse?


I'm not who you're asking, but here's how I let my nanny go:

First, since there wasn't a major safety concern like driving drunk without the baby in a carseat I kept my old nanny until DH and I had found a new one we wanted to hire. We arranged for the new nanny to start on a Friday for half a day (she accepted the job and gave notice at her old position two weeks earlier). On Thursday both DH and I came home a half hour before the nanny was scheduled to go home. We basically said, "Gianna, it's clear that you care for Lucy, but you've repeatedly been late, ignored the schedule and our instructions even after we went over it initially and reminded you twice. So unfortunately today is going to be your last day. Could you please go get your key to the house?" Then when she gave it back we invited her to say goodbye to our daughter and we stayed in the room for that. We handed her a check paying her through that day, let her know her health insurance would run through the end of the month, and escorted her to the front door. Then DH promptly changed the alarm code.

The new nanny worked half a day the next day with me at home and half a day on Monday with DH home before going full time. I definitely would never make up excuses. I think the kindest and yet most reasonable thing you can do if you have to fire people is let them know why, in case there's hope they can change in the future.


Yikes, no notice and no severance? You pointed out that there was no major safety concern and none of the reasons you gave warrant immediate dismissal. Dismissal was warranted but not the way you went about it. Perhaps there are compelling details that you left out?

You have to choose to either pay the severance or provide notice, OP. Your nanny sounds awful. Still, if she were equally and validly displeased you would want time to transition. I have always been willing to start up to four weeks after a job offer because I know most employers have a notice period in their contract.


There is no way in hell I'd give someone severance if they're being FIRED FOR CAUSE. If they're being laid off, yes. But fired? Absolutely not.
Anonymous
Post 07/12/2014 19:47     Subject: Try to talk again or let go.....
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Thank you for your input 21:45. OP here. Can I ask you how you let your nanny go? Did you tell her why? Get in to details? Keep it vague? Make up an excuse?


I'm not who you're asking, but here's how I let my nanny go:

First, since there wasn't a major safety concern like driving drunk without the baby in a carseat I kept my old nanny until DH and I had found a new one we wanted to hire. We arranged for the new nanny to start on a Friday for half a day (she accepted the job and gave notice at her old position two weeks earlier). On Thursday both DH and I came home a half hour before the nanny was scheduled to go home. We basically said, "Gianna, it's clear that you care for Lucy, but you've repeatedly been late, ignored the schedule and our instructions even after we went over it initially and reminded you twice. So unfortunately today is going to be your last day. Could you please go get your key to the house?" Then when she gave it back we invited her to say goodbye to our daughter and we stayed in the room for that. We handed her a check paying her through that day, let her know her health insurance would run through the end of the month, and escorted her to the front door. Then DH promptly changed the alarm code.

The new nanny worked half a day the next day with me at home and half a day on Monday with DH home before going full time. I definitely would never make up excuses. I think the kindest and yet most reasonable thing you can do if you have to fire people is let them know why, in case there's hope they can change in the future.


Yikes, no notice and no severance? You pointed out that there was no major safety concern and none of the reasons you gave warrant immediate dismissal. Dismissal was warranted but not the way you went about it. Perhaps there are compelling details that you left out?


You have to choose to either pay the severance or provide notice, OP. Your nanny sounds awful. Still, if she were equally and validly displeased you would want time to transition. I have always been willing to start up to four weeks after a job offer because I know most employers have a notice period in their contract.
Anonymous
Post 07/12/2014 00:30     Subject: Try to talk again or let go.....
Anonymous wrote:Thank you for your input 21:45. OP here. Can I ask you how you let your nanny go? Did you tell her why? Get in to details? Keep it vague? Make up an excuse?


I'm not who you're asking, but here's how I let my nanny go:

First, since there wasn't a major safety concern like driving drunk without the baby in a carseat I kept my old nanny until DH and I had found a new one we wanted to hire. We arranged for the new nanny to start on a Friday for half a day (she accepted the job and gave notice at her old position two weeks earlier). On Thursday both DH and I came home a half hour before the nanny was scheduled to go home. We basically said, "Gianna, it's clear that you care for Lucy, but you've repeatedly been late, ignored the schedule and our instructions even after we went over it initially and reminded you twice. So unfortunately today is going to be your last day. Could you please go get your key to the house?" Then when she gave it back we invited her to say goodbye to our daughter and we stayed in the room for that. We handed her a check paying her through that day, let her know her health insurance would run through the end of the month, and escorted her to the front door. Then DH promptly changed the alarm code.

The new nanny worked half a day the next day with me at home and half a day on Monday with DH home before going full time. I definitely would never make up excuses. I think the kindest and yet most reasonable thing you can do if you have to fire people is let them know why, in case there's hope they can change in the future.